Rangers fans

[Pretty Boy]

As long as the 'two cheeks' line keeps getting trotted out then the big lie will continue.

Celtic fans may be idiots, patronising, ignorant, arrogant and whatever else but when it comes to sectarianism they are not even close to Rangers fans. Over the years I have met many Protestant Celtic fans. I have never encountered a Catholic Rangers fan.

[Super_JMcGinn]

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I agree but I would also say celtic fans have improved their act a lot over the last 6/7 years (compared to what they were). Still a long way to go though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzHSr2-QFlo&t=32s

And many would disagree.

[Elephant Stone]

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And that's how they suck you in. That's how they win.

'Aye but it doesn't mean that in this context'

'Aye but when we say x, we mean y'

'Aye when they say it they're being bigots, we're just being political'

'Aye but what about them? They're worse.'

Is it about football? Is it about 21st century Scotland?

Both sides do it. Hair splitting and whataboutery desig edto pull you into a semantic argument that shows that everything they do is ok and everything the other does is wrong.

Nothing really wrong with that, typical rivalry - we do the same with the hearts - but the fact that they're able to somehow bring it out of the stadiums and draw all of Scottish society into the debate and drag us all down with them is what is so poisonous, and sad.

Nah, there's no sucking in or confusing meaning or whataboutery in the slightest. The poster said that he must have misheard Celtic singing 'proddy *******" Well, he has misheard them because they don't sing that. Calling Rangers Orange *******s is absolutely, 100% different. The vast majority of religious people in this country are Protestant, they are not orange. The vast majority of people in this country are white, they are not white supremacists. Calling a white supremacist out for being a white supremacist is not racist or an attack on white people in the same way that calling out a protestant supremacist for being a protestant supremacist is not an attack on protestant people.

[RIP Bestie]

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Why do you have to favour either? To be singing song after song about child sex abuse is the lowest of the ****ing low.

And we have never done that, have we??
Oh wait a minute.
Folk in glass houses and all that.

[Itsnoteasy]

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As long as the 'two cheeks' line keeps getting trotted out then the big lie will continue.

Celtic fans may be idiots, patronising, ignorant, arrogant and whatever else but when it comes to sectarianism they are not even close to Rangers fans. Over the years I have met many Protestant Celtic fans. I have never encountered a Catholic Rangers fan.

I know one who is the most bigoted hun on the planet.
But he sends his kids to a Catholic school. Cannae work it oot .

[hibsbollah]

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With all due respect mate you've totally avoided answering the question. It seems that everyone who uses the 'two cheeks' thing cannot honestly say they would even contemplate setting foot in a billy boy venue before a Hibs game. Yet tens of thousands of us go to Celtic venues every time we play at Hampden. To even remotely suggest we are comfortable doing that is because we condone some form of supposed religious bigotry is bonkers. I know loads of Celtic supporters and not heard a single one say they hate protestants. Not heard a single song about being being up to their knees in Protestant blood. They would have to hate Kenny Dalgleish, Jock Stein and even Wolfe Tone. I've heard Political views yes, religious bigotry no.

I honestly cannot say the same about the sevconians I've met. I can disagree with their take on the politics but so many descend into various degrees of religious hatred that makes me sick. That's why I think there's a difference.

Your union jack thing makes no sense to me. You seriously think you'd be ok walking into a 'sons of william' bar draped in a green Union Jack?? Plus, Ive also seen hibees wearing tee shirts with the 'our colours don't run' Union Jack design and get no grief in Celtic clubs. The green/black Union Jack isn't about British imperialism/rule Britannia - my understanding over the years is that it's more to do with CCS - but to be honest I'm no expert there.

Totally agree with you regards standing up to all forms of bigotry. It's a well made point mate but who is saying they support or condone bigotry on this thread? Religious bigotry sucks as much as racism, sexism, homophobia and anything else that tries to persecute folk. I agree with you there. Ive directly fought against racism and was arrested and expelled from apartheid South Africa as a result so I totally get that. That's exactly why I think it's wrong to use the 'two cheeks' thing. Sevconians use religious intolerance as a weapon of hatred. The politics of Ireland is far more complex but the unbridled religious hatred coming from the blue corner is there for all to see/hear.

I'm against intolerance but in my opinion the two cheeks thing doesn't stack up.

That's my position too. (apart from the being expelled from South Africa bit, I never did that).

[Sir David Gray]

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I think you're confusing 'proddy' with 'orange'. They are very, very different things.

I'm not confusing anything, I have heard Celtic fans sing that but even if it was "Orange *******" that they are singing, why is that any better?

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Rangers are ****, but this isn't any better. 2 different types of ****

Exactly. I can't understand how so many people view Celtic fans more favourably than Rangers.

They are both **** as far as I'm concerned. It's just different kinds of ****.

Any group of fans that sing songs about a terrorist organisation, bring controversial politics from another country into Scottish football and disrupt a minute's silence during a national day of remembrance are **** in my eyes. Just because they don't engage in songs about hating Protestants all the time doesn't really matter.

Of course Hibs fans are generally going to have a better experience of mixing with Celtic fans than they are with Rangers fans as Celtic fans generally view us in a patronising way as their wee cousins and "one of them".

If you spoke to any decent Hearts fans who regularly go to Ibrox or Parkhead, I'm sure they would have a different view.

That speaks volumes about the pair of them and I wish they would both disappear off the face of the Earth.

[Sir David Gray]

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Nah, there's no sucking in or confusing meaning or whataboutery in the slightest. The poster said that he must have misheard Celtic singing 'proddy *******" Well, he has misheard them because they don't sing that. Calling Rangers Orange *******s is absolutely, 100% different. The vast majority of religious people in this country are Protestant, they are not orange. The vast majority of people in this country are white, they are not white supremacists. Calling a white supremacist out for being a white supremacist is not racist or an attack on white people in the same way that calling out a protestant supremacist for being a protestant supremacist is not an attack on protestant people.

Did the Celtic fans used to sing to Alex McLeish that he was an "Orange *******" because they genuinely thought he was involved in the Orange Lodge and a religious zealot who despised the Catholic faith? Or did they sing that to him because of his assumed religious persuasion?

I think I know the answer.

Whether or not they called him (and others associated with Rangers over the years) a Proddy ******* or an Orange ******* is really neither here nor there. The meaning behind it is the same.

[Elephant Stone]

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I'm not confusing anything, I have heard Celtic fans sing that but even if it was "Orange *******" that they are singing, why is that any better?

I've answered that above mate, have a look if you want. Don't want to repeat myself and seem like any more of a Celtic arse-kisser than I no doubt already am.

[.Sean.]

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I'm not confusing anything, I have heard Celtic fans sing that but even if it was "Orange *******" that they are singing, why is that any better?



Exactly. I can't understand how so many people view Celtic fans more favourably than Rangers.

They are both **** as far as I'm concerned. It's just different kinds of ****.

Any group of fans that sing songs about a terrorist organisation, bring controversial politics from another country into Scottish football and disrupt a minute's silence during a national day of remembrance are **** in my eyes. Just because they don't engage in songs about hating Protestants all the time doesn't really matter.

Of course Hibs fans are generally going to have a better experience of mixing with Celtic fans than they are with Rangers fans as Celtic fans generally view us in a patronising way as their wee cousins and "one of them".

If you spoke to any decent Hearts fans who regularly go to Ibrox or Parkhead, I'm sure they would have a different view.

That speaks volumes about the pair of them and I wish they would both disappear off the face of the Earth.

Bang on the money as per mate.

**** the pair of them

[Sir David Gray]

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I've answered that above mate, have a look if you want. Don't want to repeat myself and seem like any more of a Celtic arse-kisser than I no doubt already am.

I noticed that after I had posted my first reply and I have already responded.

[Elephant Stone]

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Did the Celtic fans used to sing to Alex McLeish that he was an "Orange *******" because they genuinely thought he was involved in the Orange Lodge and a religious zealot who despised the Catholic faith? Or did they sing that to him because of his assumed religious persuasion?

I think I know the answer.

Whether or not they called him (and others associated with Rangers over the years) a Proddy ******* or an Orange ******* is really neither here nor there. The meaning behind it is the same.

They sang that about Alex McLeish because he was manager of Rangers. The most orange sporting organisation that could possibly be imagined. Did they sing it about Alex McLeish when he was manager of Hibs? If it was because of his 'assumed religion' then why would they not sing it about him them? Or when he was manager of Motherwell?

[Dashing Bob S]

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As long as the 'two cheeks' line keeps getting trotted out then the big lie will continue.

Celtic fans may be idiots, patronising, ignorant, arrogant and whatever else but when it comes to sectarianism they are not even close to Rangers fans. Over the years I have met many Protestant Celtic fans. I have never encountered a Catholic Rangers fan.

In some ways they are two cheeks, as Celtic have historically fed off Rangers bigotry, first by playing the victims, then by ham-fistedly taking the moral high ground. Their behavior is ugly and cynical, but you are correct, it's in no way as toxic as that of Rangers.

It's interesting that, as always happens with any working-class supremacist institution, how Rangers have become a badge of dishonor for the most uneducated and low life of the losers of post-industrial society. When you see somebody with a Rangers strip, you just think, often unjustly, 'this person is a wee bit simple.' I know Rangers fans from Glasgow who are smart, decent people and are a bit embarrassed that their club has been steadily co-opted by morons and bigots from Ayrshire, Lanarkshire and Ulster one-horse towns.

While I've seldom met a Rangers fan from Glasgow who wasn't okay, i've yet met one from outside it who wasn't a singularly unimpressive human being, and usually in myriad ways.

[Pete]

I know lots of people who consider themselves to be British or are linked to the armed forces who are extremely offended by Celtic's songs and their symbolism.

It's not lazy to say they are two cheeks of the same erse, I've just come up that conclusion because I've put myself in other people's shoes.

In fact, the conclusion I've come to is that it's all a load of ***** and we are a shining beacon when it comes to inclusion.

[Sir David Gray]

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They sang that about Alex McLeish because he was manager of Rangers. The most orange sporting organisation that could possibly be imagined. Did they sing it about Alex McLeish when he was manager of Hibs? If it was because of his 'assumed religion' then why would they not sing it about him them?

Because when he was the manager of us, he didn't have any previous ties to Rangers. It would only be after his move to Rangers that they would hear all about that he was a Rangers man etc etc through the media so the Celtic fans who sing that will take that to mean that he's a Protestant.

[Kato]

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Totally agree SDG, think some on here are only hearing what they want to.
The Soldier Song starts North men, South men, comrades all, soon there'll be no protestants at all....
Its belted out regularly by the celtc "fans".

That might be what some Celtic fans sing but it's not the words of the Soldiers Song. An Irish (Hibby) mate once confounded them by pulling them up over that error. They asked "woats the wurdz then" and he proceeded to sing the actual song, in Gaelic.

[Elephant Stone]

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Because when he was the manager of us, he didn't have any previous ties to Rangers. It would only be after his move to Rangers that they would hear all about that he was a Rangers man etc etc through the media so the Celtic fans who sing that will take that to mean that he's a Protestant.

Jeez-o, could you get any more speculative?

Scotland is a Protestant country. Most people, if they have a religion, will be Protestant. Celtic do not sing oppressive songs about these people and do not object to them being Protestant. The majority of Dundee fans are Protestant, the majority of Dundee players are Protestant, the majority of Dundee managers are Protestant. There does not need to be a link to Rangers through the media for people to work this out. Most people here are Protestant. They are not 'orange', and they are not subject to any offensive singing by Celtic fans whatsoever.

Rangers, on the other hand, are obviously a Protestant majority club but they handle this in a fascist, supremacist way. They are therefore called out as being orange. Pedro Caixihna is probably Catholic, but he now manages this club which is definitively orange. He will be now therefore be called orange, by Celtic fans. Not because they think he is Protestant, not because Celtic hate Protestants, but because he is the manager of Rangers, an orange club.

[theonlywayisup]

Admins - should this thread be moved off the football thread. Not much football being discussed.

[cleanyman]

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Jeez-o, could you get any more speculative?

Scotland is a Protestant country. Most people, if they have a religion, will be Protestant. Celtic do not sing oppressive songs about these people and do not object to them being Protestant. The majority of Dundee fans are Protestant, the majority of Dundee players are Protestant, the majority of Dundee managers are Protestant. There does not need to be a link to Rangers through the media for people to work this out. Most people here are Protestant. They are not 'orange', and they are not subject to any offensive singing by Celtic fans whatsoever.

Rangers, on the other hand, are obviously a Protestant majority club but they handle this in a fascist, supremacist way. They are therefore called out as being orange. Pedro Caixihna is probably Catholic, but he now manages this club which is definitively orange. He will be now therefore be called orange, by Celtic fans. Not because they think he is Protestant, not because Celtic hate Protestants, but because he is the manager of Rangers, an orange club.

Whit are you oan about

[cleanyman]

Rangers play great football.

Thread must stay

[CockneyRebel]

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Did the Celtic fans used to sing to Alex McLeish that he was an "Orange *******" because they genuinely thought he was involved in the Orange Lodge and a religious zealot who despised the Catholic faith? Or did they sing that to him because of his assumed religious persuasion?

I think I know the answer.

Whether or not they called him (and others associated with Rangers over the years) a Proddy ******* or an Orange ******* is really neither here nor there. The meaning behind it is the same.

I thought it was because he's ginger.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

I was sitting in the car at silverknowes this afternoon and came to the conclusion that sevco fans are like seagulls. Vicious ****ers, vermin, no one likes them but the powers that be deem that they should be treated differently.

[Elephant Stone]

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Whit are you oan about

Orange and Protestant are different things. Objecting to someone for being Orange is not objecting to them for being Protestant. Pretty simple.

[cleanyman]

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Orange and Protestant are different things. Objecting to someone for being Orange is not objecting to them for being Protestant. Pretty simple.

Orange is a colour or a fruit or even a chocolate

[tamig]

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Admins - should this thread be moved off the football thread. Not much football being discussed.

The thread title kind of gives a clue. When you started reading the thread, how did you honestly expect the discussion to pan out? People are having a good bit of chat. Ignore it if you don't like it. Plenty other football related threads on the board bizarrely enough.

[Elephant Stone]

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Orange is a colour or a fruit or even a chocolate

Yes mate, some really good chocolates are orange, and that's fine

[superfurryhibby]

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I know lots of people who consider themselves to be British or are linked to the armed forces who are extremely offended by Celtic's songs and their symbolism.

It's not lazy to say they are two cheeks of the same erse, I've just come up that conclusion because I've put myself in other people's shoes.

In fact, the conclusion I've come to is that it's all a load of ***** and we are a shining beacon when it comes to inclusion.

I know many people who consider Britain offensive and strongly object to the way our armed forces have been constantly deployed in a cynical and brutal way around the globe and closer to home.

I say that coming from a family who have a very strong military tradition and one in where I am very proud of my Nazi fighting grandfathers.

[Bostonhibby]

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I know one who is the most bigoted hun on the planet.
But he sends his kids to a Catholic school. Cannae work it oot .

My cousin's also a the rangers fan with a Catholic background. Truth is he's passionate about neither. Attends Scotland games all over and both his daughters have become Hibs kids so he takes them along to games. Still won't admit he's on the road to redemption though.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[barcahibs]

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I know many people who consider Britain offensive and strongly object to the way our armed forces have been constantly deployed in a cynical and brutal way around the globe and closer to home.

I say that coming from a family who have a very strong military tradition and one in where I am very

That's nice.

I completely disagree with that political/historic viewpoint.

Luckily however it's got bugger all to do with football so we can both happily go to Easter Road and support the Hibs without caring. You know what's really nice about my seat in the ground? The folk around me. Do you know what their politics or religion are? No, neither do I. I know we're all Hibbies though.

It's only celgers fans who would have one of us barred.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

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Admins - should this thread be moved off the football thread. Not much football being discussed.

That for me hits the nail on the head as to why they are as bad as each other. They both carry so much 'non-football' baggage into football stadia around the country.

Every other clubs fans are only interested in the football and singing songs of support, or songs that wind up the opposition. They have no interest in what happens in Ireland , now or in the past.

Scotland must be the only league in the world where the two biggest clubs fans are obsessed with another country and, given the chance, would move to the English league without a backward glance.