Rangers fans

[Hibernia&Alba]

It's lazy to say they are just as bad as each other; they aren't. Anyone looking objectively at the numbers involved and the frequency of the bigoted songs would have to conclude Rangers fans are worse. However, there are a large number of moronic bigots within the Celtic support who persist with the IRA songs, which is unacceptable. The Celtic fans do, however, avoid anti-Protestant songs, whereas Rangers fans are driven by anti-Catholicism. I'd like to see the SFA introduce the same strict liability policy of UEFA.

[Paisley Hibby]

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Too much love-in towards Celtic on this forum recently. They're a horrible club.

Celtic are to us what Bjorn Again are to ABBA.

[Hibrandenburg]

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So because their particular brand of bigotry suits us that makes it ok?

There used to be a smart green and black union jack flag at a lot of our games - would the Hibs fans carrying it get as warm a welcome?

Bigotry is bigotry, whether it personally affects us or not. Theres all sorts of forms of bigotry out there that don't personally affect me, that doesnt mean i dont stand up against it.

Extreme example (and not aimed at you personally) but do as a white person should I ignore racism because I would be welcome in a "whites" only club?

celtc fans may choose to patronisingly view us as their little cousins in arms from the East but they can shove it IMO.

I've known both celtc and zombie fans who've been good guys in normal conversation but I've never met anyone from either side you can have a sensible conversation about football with. Each side as poisonous and deluded as the other.

Great post.

[bigwheel]

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So because their particular brand of bigotry suits us that makes it ok?

There used to be a smart green and black union jack flag at a lot of our games - would the Hibs fans carrying it get as warm a welcome?

Bigotry is bigotry, whether it personally affects us or not. Theres all sorts of forms of bigotry out there that don't personally affect me, that doesnt mean i dont stand up against it.

Extreme example (and not aimed at you personally) but do as a white person should I ignore racism because I would be welcome in a "whites" only club?

celtc fans may choose to patronisingly view us as their little cousins in arms from the East but they can shove it IMO.

I've known both celtc and zombie fans who've been good guys in normal conversation but I've never met anyone from either side you can have a sensible conversation about football with. Each side as poisonous and deluded as the other.

The bigotry from Rangers and Celtic fans, in my experience, is largely different. There are huge swathes of Rangers support that sign sectarian songs. There are few Celtic fans who sign anti protestant songs. There are many who sing republican and songs of freedom - which are more of a political nature - rather than sectarian. Completely understand why that may be viewed as not acceptable to some - but it is not bigoted.

Equally, I'm not saying there won't be exceptions - but as a general rule there is very little religious oriented signing from Celtic fans these day - and certainly almost none at their games - might be some outside in the pubs (no idea about that tbh).

Rangers fans on the other hand continue to create anti-catholic songs and introduce new ones even this season...I've said it before on this site, but on a religious bigotry basis - there is no comparison. Rangers are MUCH worse.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The bigotry from Rangers and Celtic fans, in my experience, is largely different. There are huge swathes of Rangers support that sign sectarian songs. There are few Celtic fans who sign anti protestant songs. There are many who sing republican and songs of freedom - which are more of a political nature - rather than sectarian. Completely understand why that may be viewed as not acceptable to some - but it is not bigoted.

Equally, I'm not saying there won't be exceptions - but as a general rule there is very little religious oriented signing from Celtic fans these day - and certainly almost none at their games - might be some outside in the pubs (no idea about that tbh).

Rangers fans on the other hand continue to create anti-catholic songs and introduce new ones even this season...I've said it before on this site, but on a religious bigotry basis - there is no comparison. Rangers are MUCH worse.

I agree with you. Not condoning the IRA songs for a moment, but I don't think it's fair to trot out the 'both as bad as each other' line; certainly not in terms of religious bigotry, as opposed to the political stuff.

[Smartie]

I think I've been to a few too many derbies at Tynecastle over the past decade to get all high and mighty over this.

[Johnny Clash]

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So because their particular brand of bigotry suits us that makes it ok?

There used to be a smart green and black union jack flag at a lot of our games - would the Hibs fans carrying it get as warm a welcome?

Bigotry is bigotry, whether it personally affects us or not. Theres all sorts of forms of bigotry out there that don't personally affect me, that doesnt mean i dont stand up against it.

Extreme example (and not aimed at you personally) but do as a white person should I ignore racism because I would be welcome in a "whites" only club?

celtc fans may choose to patronisingly view us as their little cousins in arms from the East but they can shove it IMO.

I've known both celtc and zombie fans who've been good guys in normal conversation but I've never met anyone from either side you can have a sensible conversation about football with. Each side as poisonous and deluded as the other.

With all due respect mate you've totally avoided answering the question. It seems that everyone who uses the 'two cheeks' thing cannot honestly say they would even contemplate setting foot in a billy boy venue before a Hibs game. Yet tens of thousands of us go to Celtic venues every time we play at Hampden. To even remotely suggest we are comfortable doing that is because we condone some form of supposed religious bigotry is bonkers. I know loads of Celtic supporters and not heard a single one say they hate protestants. Not heard a single song about being being up to their knees in Protestant blood. They would have to hate Kenny Dalgleish, Jock Stein and even Wolfe Tone. I've heard Political views yes, religious bigotry no.

I honestly cannot say the same about the sevconians I've met. I can disagree with their take on the politics but so many descend into various degrees of religious hatred that makes me sick. That's why I think there's a difference.

Your union jack thing makes no sense to me. You seriously think you'd be ok walking into a 'sons of william' bar draped in a green Union Jack?? Plus, Ive also seen hibees wearing tee shirts with the 'our colours don't run' Union Jack design and get no grief in Celtic clubs. The green/black Union Jack isn't about British imperialism/rule Britannia - my understanding over the years is that it's more to do with CCS - but to be honest I'm no expert there.

Totally agree with you regards standing up to all forms of bigotry. It's a well made point mate but who is saying they support or condone bigotry on this thread? Religious bigotry sucks as much as racism, sexism, homophobia and anything else that tries to persecute folk. I agree with you there. Ive directly fought against racism and was arrested and expelled from apartheid South Africa as a result so I totally get that. That's exactly why I think it's wrong to use the 'two cheeks' thing. Sevconians use religious intolerance as a weapon of hatred. The politics of Ireland is far more complex but the unbridled religious hatred coming from the blue corner is there for all to see/hear.

I'm against intolerance but in my opinion the two cheeks thing doesn't stack up.

[Bostonhibby]

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With all due respect mate you've totally avoided answering the question. It seems that everyone who uses the 'two cheeks' thing cannot honestly say they would even contemplate setting foot in a billy boy venue before a Hibs game. Yet tens of thousands of us go to Celtic venues every time we play at Hampden. To even remotely suggest we are comfortable doing that is because we condone some form of supposed religious bigotry is bonkers. I know loads of Celtic supporters and not heard a single one say they hate protestants. Not heard a single song about being being up to their knees in Protestant blood. They would have to hate Kenny Dalgleish, Jock Stein and even Wolfe Tone. I've heard Political views yes, religious bigotry no.

I honestly cannot say the same about the sevconians I've met. I can disagree with their take on the politics but so many descend into various degrees of religious hatred that makes me sick. That's why I think there's a difference.

Your union jack thing makes no sense to me. You seriously think you'd be ok walking into a 'sons of william' bar draped in a green Union Jack?? Plus, Ive also seen hibees wearing tee shirts with the 'our colours don't run' Union Jack design and get no grief in Celtic clubs. The green/black Union Jack isn't about British imperialism/rule Britannia - my understanding over the years is that it's more to do with CCS - but to be honest I'm no expert there.

Totally agree with you regards standing up to all forms of bigotry. It's a well made point mate but who is saying they support or condone bigotry on this thread? Religious bigotry sucks as much as racism, sexism, homophobia and anything else that tries to persecute folk. I agree with you there. Ive directly fought against racism and was arrested and expelled from apartheid South Africa as a result so I totally get that. That's exactly why I think it's wrong to use the 'two cheeks' thing. Sevconians use religious intolerance as a weapon of hatred. The politics of Ireland is far more complex but the unbridled religious hatred coming from the blue corner is there for all to see/hear.

I'm against intolerance but in my opinion the two cheeks thing doesn't stack up.

This is a really well thought out post and it gets me to reconsider my previous two cheeks same erse position. I know many celtc fans personally and professionally and I do find their patronisation of Hibs and me as a Hibby hugely frustrating as we don't look for it or crave it yet they seem to have this need.......it extends in a yam like "special relationship" way to other clubs as well, Liverpool for example. The huns song book is truly truly tragic and says so much about them to people listening. Celtc might have more to sing about and a better range of songs that aren't about just the one thing but you don't have to dig too deep for some pretty difficult to believe / verify allegiances and statements to emerge.

I find the hate filled one dimensional unionist / anti catholic inward looking hun mentality difficult to even comprehend. I never really get any reasoned argument from them as it just seems to be something that is passed as unquestionable from one generation to the other - so to that extent they are different from celtc who do seem to have moved on a bit or maybe are managing to contain it a bit better (?) but you don't have to talk for too long to the ones I know for the dated, misty eyed and often historically wrong Irish rubbish to kick in.

I am revising my description going forward to different cheeks of the same erse, eventually the divide between the two sets of fans might become so great that one day they will both be different erses in their own right.

[Killiehibbie]

Rangers have always been worse with their songs of hatred.

[Austinho]

Like any club, they both have idiots in their support. It's just that at Rangers, they seem to be in the majority. Even the decent, level headed ones seem to engage in venomous hatred on match days.

A Ger I went to school with even got sacked from the police for being caught singing sectarian songs at Ibrox. It was all over the papers, and I've not heard a peep from him since.

I also remember walking up Easter Road after a Rangers game once, and being spat at and called a fenian b******. I was a child, and holding my dads hand at the time. Hard to imagine any other club in Scotland stooping as low as that.

[steakbake]

I've walked through a Celtic crowd before a game and thought they were a noisy bunch with a few d***heads, but nothing too troubling.

I've walked through The Rangers fans and felt pretty threatened, that something could kick off at any point and that most of their fans liked to indulge in their songbook.

I've known Celtic and Rangers fans personally and always felt that element of their "heritage" is far stronger with TRFC fandans than with Celtic fans.

[.Sean.]

The love-in some folk seem to have for Celtic on some Hibs pages on Facebook is nauseating. I hate any notion we have some sort of affinity with them.

[cleanyman]

Jeez

Of course you would feel threatened walking through a bunch of Rangers fans. You're wearing green and white. What do you expect?

Celtic wouldn't give a **** as we are seen as part of the family. Like it or not.

[WeeRussell]

100% in agreement with the general consensus that as a Hibs fan, I in no way, want to be talked about as having any sort of affiliation or connection with Celtic.

I would also agree that Celtic aren't quite as bad as the Huns in terms of their bigotry and efforts to clean up their act. At least Celtic as a CLUB appear to have taken some steps (even if large numbers of their supporters aren't on board), whereas the bigotry and hatred is what Rangers are all about, right through.

However, the fact that Rangers are being used as the comparison in terms of bigotry levels, tells you all you need to know about how ****my Celtic are.

F*** them both.

[Bostonhibby]

Ibrox is still the only ground I have been spat at and have seen women spat at. Steward wasn't interested and walked away. Mate got ejected for threatening the spitters who were above us complained to plod who said "you're in Glasgow" wry wee smile and turned and walked off. It was in the 80,s so probably the chief constable now.

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[flash]

I suppose the main difference is the Rangers songbook is largely based on arrogant supremacy whereas Celtics tends to be more songs about resistance to said supremacy.

[Tamhere1875]

Never had any problems at parkhead where as at ibrox that's a totally different thing, spat at had things thrown in amongst us treated like crap by pc plod and the so called stewards, aye I'm looking forward to visiting the land that time forgot again next season.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Never had any problems at parkhead where as at ibrox that's a totally different thing, spat at had things thrown in amongst us treated like crap by pc plod and the so called stewards, aye I'm looking forward to visiting the land that time forgot again next season.

That's always going to be the case for Hibs fans at Ibrox. Hearts fans probably get better treatment there, for example. However, the Huns do have more form for anti-social behaviour and violence generally.

[AndyM_1875]

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That's always going to be the case for Hibs fans at Ibrox. Hearts fans probably get better treatment there, for example. However, the Huns do have more form for anti-social behaviour and violence generally.

Perhaps pre 2012 that was the case. Not now.
Hearts fans have been assaulted and in one case very seriously attacked at Ibrox on recent visits. Plus our maroon chums give it large against Rangers with the "You let your club die" and "Rangers died, Hearts survived" chants.
All very infantile stuff but it appears to really annoy the currant buns .

[Hibrandenburg]

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Never had any problems at parkhead where as at ibrox that's a totally different thing, spat at had things thrown in amongst us treated like crap by pc plod and the so called stewards, aye I'm looking forward to visiting the land that time forgot again next season.

Go to parkhead with a hearts scarf on and I'd imagine you'd have a much different experience. Like Barcahibs (think that was the name) said. Just because they're not bigoted towards us doesn't excuse them.

[steakbake]

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Jeez

Of course you would feel threatened walking through a bunch of Rangers fans. You're wearing green and white. What do you expect?

Celtic wouldn't give a **** as we are seen as part of the family. Like it or not.

Doesn't bother me. We were first in the green!

What I would say is that the west approach to Hampden on 21-05 was absolute mayhem before we even got near the stadium. They are a disgrace. And I've seen them certainly more times than just in the cup final, including their predecessor club's fans. I used to live near Pittodrie and every game the Rangers came up, there was carnage. The same is just not true for Celtic.

I've never really been that bothered by Celtic fans. Even Jambos maybe dish out a slagging, but I've not heard pubs filled with them belting out sectarian tunes or buses driving past with flute music and loyalist flags.

[Sir David Gray]

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It's lazy to say they are just as bad as each other; they aren't. Anyone looking objectively at the numbers involved and the frequency of the bigoted songs would have to conclude Rangers fans are worse. However, there are a large number of moronic bigots within the Celtic support who persist with the IRA songs, which is unacceptable. The Celtic fans do, however, avoid anti-Protestant songs, whereas Rangers fans are driven by anti-Catholicism. I'd like to see the SFA introduce the same strict liability policy of UEFA.

The Celtic fans avoid anti-Protestant songs?

I must have misheard them singing about several Rangers managers over the years and telling them to cheer up because they're a "sad Proddy *******" as the song goes.

They might sing less songs about Protestants as the other lot sing about Roman Catholics but they don't have to sing anti-Protestant songs to be considered as bad as Rangers.

Songs supporting the Provisional IRA, a group that was responsible for murdering innocent men, women and children is just as bad (in my opinion) than singing songs against a religious group.

[Jack Hackett]

Hands up those who think that the ending would have been the same, or even similar, If it was Celtc we had beat last May.

I don't particularly like them but I detest Der Hun

[Elephant Stone]

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The Celtic fans avoid anti-Protestant songs?

I must have misheard them singing about several Rangers managers over the years and telling them to cheer up because they're a "sad Proddy *******" as the song goes.

They might sing less songs about Protestants as the other lot sing about Roman Catholics but they don't have to sing anti-Protestant songs to be considered as bad as Rangers.

Songs supporting the Provisional IRA, a group that was responsible for murdering innocent men, women and children is just as bad (in my opinion) than singing songs against a religious group.

I think you're confusing 'proddy' with 'orange'. They are very, very different things.

[McD]

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The Celtic fans avoid anti-Protestant songs?

I must have misheard them singing about several Rangers managers over the years and telling them to cheer up because they're a "sad Proddy *******" as the song goes.

They might sing less songs about Protestants as the other lot sing about Roman Catholics but they don't have to sing anti-Protestant songs to be considered as bad as Rangers.

Songs supporting the Provisional IRA, a group that was responsible for murdering innocent men, women and children is just as bad (in my opinion) than singing songs against a religious group.

Rangers are ****, but this isn't any better. 2 different types of ****

[Siralbertkidd]

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The Celtic fans avoid anti-Protestant songs?

I must have misheard them singing about several Rangers managers over the years and telling them to cheer up because they're a "sad Proddy *******" as the song goes.

They might sing less songs about Protestants as the other lot sing about Roman Catholics but they don't have to sing anti-Protestant songs to be considered as bad as Rangers.

Songs supporting the Provisional IRA, a group that was responsible for murdering innocent men, women and children is just as bad (in my opinion) than singing songs against a religious group.

Totally agree SDG, think some on here are only hearing what they want to.
The Soldier Song starts North men, South men, comrades all, soon there'll be no protestants at all....
Its belted out regularly by the celtc "fans".

[Elephant Stone]

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Totally agree SDG, think some on here are only hearing what they want to.
The Soldier Song starts North men, South men, comrades all, soon there'll be no protestants at all....
Its belted out regularly by the celtc "fans".

How did you arrive at this conclusion mate?

[The Harp Awakes]

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Like any club, they both have idiots in their support. It's just that at Rangers, they seem to be in the majority. Even the decent, level headed ones seem to engage in venomous hatred on match days.

A Ger I went to school with even got sacked from the police for being caught singing sectarian songs at Ibrox. It was all over the papers, and I've not heard a peep from him since.

I also remember walking up Easter Road after a Rangers game once, and being spat at and called a fenian b******. I was a child, and holding my dads hand at the time. Hard to imagine any other club in Scotland stooping as low as that.

Nail on the head. The two cheeks of the same erse argument which is trotted out after every weekly display of religious bigotry by Sevco fans just prevents them from being taken to task. Sevco fans and Rangers fans before them, have been getting away with spouting their filth for decades. Nothing will change because the majority of their support are bigots and the minority who aren't, are scared of speaking out.

[barcahibs]

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With all due respect mate you've totally avoided answering the question. It seems that everyone who uses the 'two cheeks' thing cannot honestly say they would even contemplate setting foot in a billy boy venue before a Hibs game. Yet tens of thousands of us go to Celtic venues every time we play at Hampden. To even remotely suggest we are comfortable doing that is because we condone some form of supposed religious bigotry is bonkers. I know loads of Celtic supporters and not heard a single one say they hate protestants. Not heard a single song about being being up to their knees in Protestant blood. They would have to hate Kenny Dalgleish, Jock Stein and even Wolfe Tone. I've heard Political views yes, religious bigotry no.

I honestly cannot say the same about the sevconians I've met. I can disagree with their take on the politics but so many descend into various degrees of religious hatred that makes me sick. That's why I think there's a difference.

Your union jack thing makes no sense to me. You seriously think you'd be ok walking into a 'sons of william' bar draped in a green Union Jack?? Plus, Ive also seen hibees wearing tee shirts with the 'our colours don't run' Union Jack design and get no grief in Celtic clubs. The green/black Union Jack isn't about British imperialism/rule Britannia - my understanding over the years is that it's more to do with CCS - but to be honest I'm no expert there.

Totally agree with you regards standing up to all forms of bigotry. It's a well made point mate but who is saying they support or condone bigotry on this thread? Religious bigotry sucks as much as racism, sexism, homophobia and anything else that tries to persecute folk. I agree with you there. Ive directly fought against racism and was arrested and expelled from apartheid South Africa as a result so I totally get that. That's exactly why I think it's wrong to use the 'two cheeks' thing. Sevconians use religious intolerance as a weapon of hatred. The politics of Ireland is far more complex but the unbridled religious hatred coming from the blue corner is there for all to see/hear.

I'm against intolerance but in my opinion the two cheeks thing doesn't stack up.

I don't think I'm avoiding the question - i just think some people don't like the answer.

You (I'm going to keep saying 'you' but obviously i don't mean you personally - it's the 'royal you' ;) )

'You' aren't offended or upset by celtcs preferred brand of bigotry so it's therefore not as bad as the zombie version. That's what it seems to boil down to for some people. That doesnt make it any less offensive or vile to those who it is aimed at. Again, try going back to 'your' celtc bar in a union jack and see if they're still as happy to get misty eyed over the freedom fighters of Ireland as they were before. A hertz supporting friend of mine tells a great story of accidentally ending up in a celtc pub and barely escaping with his life. Its not so much fun when you're not their wee green and white 'pals'.

Am i supposed be grateful that celtc fans welcome us into their clubs? Of course they do. In their twisted world the fact that we wear green and carry Harps and tricolours somehow means we're on their side. Well i sure as hell am not. The fact that there is any sort of reaction - either positive or begative - to our heritage reinforces my point.

Two sides of the same coin, one likes us, one hates us - all because of our colours and history. That's bigotry.

The fact that you're coming up with reasons why Hibs fans might carry a union jack flag, or an England flag, or an Ireland flag is part of it too. I don't care why Hibs fans choose to have a flag. Maybe they're celebrating their Scottish/British/English/Irish heritage, maybe they're being ironic, maybe it has a ccs link, maybe they just like the pattern or the colour.

The point is it doesnt matter. celtc/sevco choose to put a political slant on everything they do because they're sad weirdoes obsessed with ancient politics. We don't.

Actually walking into a sevco bar in a green union jack might be worth trying - several of them might self combust trying to work it out... :)


And for those describing the terrible experiences they've had walking through crowds of sevconians, i agree. I've been there too and it isnt fun.

Remind me which set of followers of the gruesome twosome it was who decided to throw tear gas into a Hibs crowd though?

Aye, they love us right enough. When it suits them. When we're on message and on their side. When we're not a threat.

Apologies for any disrespect that appears to come from the above, genuinely don't mean any of it personally to anyone - we're all allowed our own views and politics. That's what makes us better than them ;)

[barcahibs]

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I think you're confusing 'proddy' with 'orange'. They are very, very different things.

And that's how they suck you in. That's how they win.

'Aye but it doesn't mean that in this context'

'Aye but when we say x, we mean y'

'Aye when they say it they're being bigots, we're just being political'

'Aye but what about them? They're worse.'

Is it about football? Is it about 21st century Scotland?

Both sides do it. Hair splitting and whataboutery desig edto pull you into a semantic argument that shows that everything they do is ok and everything the other does is wrong.

Nothing really wrong with that, typical rivalry - we do the same with the hearts - but the fact that they're able to somehow bring it out of the stadiums and draw all of Scottish society into the debate and drag us all down with them is what is so poisonous, and sad.