'Gallant losers are losers'...Was Lennon right to blast the players?

[Hibbyradge]

In fact, if you google, you'll find that all those managers have fiercly criticised their players publicly on occasion.

[Slavoj Zizek]

Cannot be arsed going through SIX [edit now SEVEN] pages of bickering. Some of us work and have a life. I agree with Neil: FACTS[!?] are there are no good girl points awarded to us for being gallant losers. #justsaying

[Super_JMcGinn]

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Cannot be arsed going through SIX [edit now SEVEN] pages of bickering. Some of us work and have a life. I agree with Neil: FACTS[!?] are there are no good girl points awarded to us for being gallant losers. #justsaying

We lost because he sent out the wrong team, end off.

[Hibbyradge]

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We lost because he sent out the wrong team, end off.

Nothing to do with the individual errors which gave Aberdeen a 2 goal start?

Seriously?

[Slavoj Zizek]

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Nothing to do with the individual errors which gave Aberdeen a 2 goal start?

Seriously?

Nah. It's cool bro. A gallant defeat against insurmountable odds. At least we out sang the sheep though. #Winning?

[hibbysam]

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Nothing to do with the individual errors which gave Aberdeen a 2 goal start?

Seriously?

First one terrible, second came as a result of being horribly overrun due to tactics resulted in being out of position and giving away a foul, compounded by two poor mistakes to make it 2-0. Facts are it could've been a lot worse had Aberdeen had a bit of composure. 2-0 massively flattered us on the balance of play for that 30 minutes.

[Hibbyradge]

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First one terrible, second came as a result of being horribly overrun due to tactics resulted in being out of position and giving away a foul, compounded by two poor mistakes to make it 2-0. Facts are it could've been a lot worse had Aberdeen had a bit of composure. 2-0 massively flattered us on the balance of play for that 30 minutes.

Aberdeen did not create a single chance apart from what we gifted them.

Soaking up pressure is part of the game.

[hibbysam]

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Aberdeen did not create a single chance apart from what we gifted them.

Soaking up pressure is part of the game.

Jonny Hayes missed a great chance just before the sub was made. We barely touched the ball, we weren't 'soaking up pressure' we were being completely and utterly dominated due to our tactics. How many times were Aberdeen in good positions only to be stopped by a poor final ball from wide or Bartley stopping Shinnie in the middle. We were very lucky Aberdeen were wasteful in the first half hour or they could've been out of sight.

[houstonhibbee]

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Jonny Hayes missed a great chance just before the sub was made. We barely touched the ball, we weren't 'soaking up pressure' we were being completely and utterly dominated due to our tactics. How many times were Aberdeen in good positions only to be stopped by a poor final ball from wide or Bartley stopping Shinnie in the middle. We were very lucky Aberdeen were wasteful in the first half hour or they could've been out of sight.

Just as well it wasn't Celtic we were playing in the first 30......

[Ray_]

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Name another top manager who would've blasted the players like Lennon did? Yes, Fergie did but that was in the 80s. There is no way Guardiola, Pocchetino, Klopp or Rogers would do this, not in public anyway. It isn't the first time Lennon has had a go either!

Like it or not, man management is everything in modern football and I think Lennon isn't great at this side of things. Wouldn't surprise me if the players are sick of being criticised in public cos I'm afraid that's the way modern footballers are.

For those who say he's like this because he's a winner and won't stand for 2nd best, do you think the managers I've listed above aren't winners.....

Well, if that's the case, I would suggest that they then grow a pair, a lot of people paid a lot of money for that shambolic 30 minutes on Saturday.

[Hibbyradge]

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Jonny Hayes missed a great chance just before the sub was made. We barely touched the ball, we weren't 'soaking up pressure' we were being completely and utterly dominated due to our tactics. How many times were Aberdeen in good positions only to be stopped by a poor final ball from wide or Bartley stopping Shinnie in the middle. We were very lucky Aberdeen were wasteful in the first half hour or they could've been out of sight.

We were being dominated because, after 12 seconds, Aberdeen saw that our players hadn't turned up. They were hugely encouraged by the early goal. We were stunned by it.

Had we started on the front foot, even by putting the ball into their corner, the whole tone of the game would have developed differently.

[hibbysam]

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We were being dominated because, after 12 seconds, Aberdeen saw that our players hadn't turned up. They were hugely encouraged by the early goal. We were stunned by it.

Had we started on the front foot, even by putting the ball into their corner, the whole tone of the game would have developed differently.

If you think the set up was correct with Cummings isolated 50 yards ahead of our midfield then fair play.

[Hibbyradge]

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If you think the set up was correct with Cummings isolated 50 yards ahead of our midfield then fair play.

That's not the point.

We were one down without knowing what the set up or tactics were.

We still don't really know how the players were supposed to approach that game because it all went belly up after 12 seconds.

I agree we looked poor until we scored, but it's not as simple as saying Lennon got it wrong.

Giving the 2nd best SPFL side a goal of a start is bound to have a negative effect on the team. Surely you can agree that?

[hibbysam]

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That's not the point.

We were one down without knowing what the set up or tactics were.

We still don't really know how the players were supposed to approach that game because it all went belly up after 12 seconds.

I agree we looked poor until we scored, but it's not as simple as saying Lennon got it wrong.

Giving the 2nd best SPFL side a goal of a start is bound to have a negative effect on the team. Surely you can agree that?

I've said the first goal was terrible. And of course it did. But with those players we didn't have a link between Jason and the midfield. With or without the opening goal we wouldn't have had that link, which allowed Aberdeen to press us high as they knew they would win the long ball when we were pressured. If you write our starting XI down on paper,
I challenge you to give me a formation that they fit into, with their styles of play.

[calumhibee1]

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I've said the first goal was terrible. And of course it did. But with those players we didn't have a link between Jason and the midfield. With or without the opening goal we wouldn't have had that link, which allowed Aberdeen to press us high as they knew they would win the long ball when we were pressured. If you write our starting XI down on paper,
I challenge you to give me a formation that they fit into, with their styles of play.

This is the point I've made time and time again, but it's always just met with the reply of "what is Lennon supposed to do about an individual mistake gifting a goal after 12 seconds?". We would still have been camped in our own half due to Jason Cummings having nobody within about 40 yards of him until Holt came on whether we went 1-0 down or not. Aberdeen came out with a game plan to pressure us on the ball and win it when we inevitably punted it long to our lone 5'9 striker. Holt came on and gave us something to hit, someone to win it, hold it up and settle us into the game and this is why Lennons tactics were a big part of how the first 30 minutes went and why we improved after it.

[Hibbyradge]

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I've said the first goal was terrible. And of course it did. But with those players we didn't have a link between Jason and the midfield. With or without the opening goal we wouldn't have had that link, which allowed Aberdeen to press us high as they knew they would win the long ball when we were pressured. If you write our starting XI down on paper,
I challenge you to give me a formation that they fit into, with their styles of play.

I'm not the manager and I said that we still don't know what the game plan was. It didn't look like it was working, but we were getting steadier before the second calamity.

If it was wrong, we had the option of changing it at any time we felt appropriate.

Because of our own mistakes, however, that option was taken out of our hands and we were forced to gamble.

The number of people on here who wouldnt even have had Holt on the bench shows how little they know about tactics etc.

You blame Lennon, I get that.

[calumhibee1]

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We were being dominated because, after 12 seconds, Aberdeen saw that our players hadn't turned up. They were hugely encouraged by the early goal. We were stunned by it.

Had we started on the front foot, even by putting the ball into their corner, the whole tone of the game would have developed differently.

Aberdeen dominated us because we had no out ball to get out of our own half for half an hour until Holt came on. They knew they could hunt us down in our own half, either win it off us and break quickly from the middle of our half or pressure us into punting I, win it and build from there. I don't get where the logic comes from that had we not conceded after 12 seconds that we would have suddenly had an outball in JC upfront on his own, as if the only reason he wasn't able to hold the ball up, bring others into play, provide an outball etc was because we conceded. It's because he's not capable of doing that against such a strong defence, it's not his game. Which is why he should never have started with him upfront on his own.

[wookie70]

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I'm not the manager and I said that we still don't know what the game plan was. It didn't look like it was working, but we were getting steadier before the second calamity.

If it was wrong, we had the option of changing it at any time we felt appropriate.

Because of our own mistakes, however, that option was taken out of our hands and we were forced to gamble.

The number of people on here who wouldnt even have had Holt on the bench shows how little they know about tactics etc.

You blame Lennon, I get that.

Dylan McG says the formation wasn't working. He probably has a fair idea given he was running about chasing shadows for 30 minutes.

[Hibbyradge]

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Dylan McG says the formation wasn't working. He probably has a fair idea given he was running about chasing shadows for 30 minutes.

I know, but that's not why we were 2-0 down.

Aberdeen had a lot of the ball and when we had it, they pressed us relentlessly, but they created virtually nothing.

Anyway, we're going round in circles so I'll leave it there.

[wookie70]

Here is a quote from SJM - At the first goal the manager told me to be positive from kick-off and take it for a run but Aberdeen did well to win it back.

That alone should have been enough for Neil Lennon to take some of the heat off the players, particularly McGinn.

[ancient hibee]

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Here is a quote from SJM - At the first goal the manager told me to be positive from kick-off and take it for a run but Aberdeen did well to win it back.

That alone should have been enough for Neil Lennon to take some of the heat off the players, particularly McGinn.

So he took it for a three yard run and then lost it.We immediately got it back again.It was what happened after that that was crucial.So don't understand your point. I haven't seen Lennon blaming McGinn for doing what he was told.The only people criticising him are on here.

[chrisski33]

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Dylan confirms the formation wasn't working. No surprise there. He manages to do it tactfully though.

He also says that Lennon was right to have a blast at the players and he is a winner...

[wookie70]

The argument I am making is whether Lennon should take some responsibility for the first half hour debacle. Losing possession from KO and giving Aberdeen the opportunity to force their way into our half is partly Lennon's fault imo, given what SJM said. Saying he is a winner when he have lost means nothing. When Lennon makes Hibs slightly better than we would expect he can be classed as a winner.

[Lancs Harp]

Not sure why this thread had turned into a tactics/team selection v individual errors battle. They were clearly both key factors in the game early on. Yes our players did make mistakes and we did gift the Dons the first two goals and yes Neil Lennon got the team and tactics initially wrong and acknowledged that by changing it on the half hour mark.

It wasnt one or the other it was both.

[stantonhibby]

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Here is a quote from SJM - At the first goal the manager told me to be positive from kick-off and take it for a run but Aberdeen did well to win it back.

That alone should have been enough for Neil Lennon to take some of the heat off the players, particularly McGinn.

Jeezo, you still banging on about this.

[pacoluna]

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We lost because he sent out the wrong team, end off.

Aye because your not impartial

[eastmainsmsh]

I think it was a mistake to leave holt out but we got out of jail just a pity first and last goal marciano is a cracking keeper but he was off his line at free kick and last goal even first

[hibbysam]

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Not sure why this thread had turned into a tactics/team selection v individual errors battle. They were clearly both key factors in the game early on. Yes our players did make mistakes and we did gift the Dons the first two goals and yes Neil Lennon got the team and tactics initially wrong and acknowledged that by changing it on the half hour mark.

It wasnt one or the other it was both.

Correct. McGregor got it horribly wrong, McGeough/Marciano got it badly wrong, and Lennon got it badly wrong in the first place.

[Onion]

Lennon is using Celtic's mentality as the benchmark for Hibs. It's what he's most familiar with, and there is no way a Celtic side would have slept its way through the first 30 mins of a cup semifinal the way Hibs did. I can understand his frustration. Hibs might never have the quality of player that Celtic can afford, but Lennon has every right to expect the players to be focused and awake at the start of huge game. There are no excuses.

[calumhibee1]

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Not sure why this thread had turned into a tactics/team selection v individual errors battle. They were clearly both key factors in the game early on. Yes our players did make mistakes and we did gift the Dons the first two goals and yes Neil Lennon got the team and tactics initially wrong and acknowledged that by changing it on the half hour mark.

It wasnt one or the other it was both.

Because there's a hell of a lot of people who seem to think only one of the two can be true. Individual errors cost us the goals, absolutely. I've not seen anyone debate that. Lennons tactics had us getting battered for the first 30 minutes. I've seen plenty people debate that. I've even seen some suggest that the players when they were 2-0 down just happened to find something within themselves to start giving 100%, which they mustn't have been doing before hand, and it just happened to coincide with Holt coming on and the formation changing rather than the more logical explanation of Lennons tactics being at fault.

Between McGregor, McGinn, McGeouch and Marciano, none of them have come out and said "this wasn't anything to do with me" which is basically what Lennon done when he came out and said that the "pathetic" "embarrassing" first 30 mins was "nothing to do with tactics" when it was clear as day to fans (all the ones around me at the game seemed to see it wasn't working anyway), players (Dylan has publicly mentioned it), and pundits (nearly all them) that, minus the goals, it was. We were getting battered and couldn't get out our own half due to the way he lined the team up.

But whenever Lennons tactics get brought into question it's met with a staunch defense of him and being told "It's no Lennons fault that the players made individual mistakes, so why is anyone criticizing him?"

As you said, the first 30 mins was a mixture of both the players making individual errors and NL getting it wrong. The issue myself and others have is with Lennon coming out after the game and basically absolving himself of any blame. Some people seem to have the opinion that he was justified in doing that.