'Gallant losers are losers'...Was Lennon right to blast the players?

[Since90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He is spot on with his blasting of the players , the first half an hour was awful , remember it is a job and they get paid for it , if any of us in our jobs weren't performing you would get blasted too , it's nice to have a manager who is willing to show the fight and passion to improve our team and can only be commended for it.

The shape of the team was completely wrong prior to Holt coming on. We offered absolutely nothing going forward as Cummings was so isolated. Lennon set the team up to play that way so he has to take some responsibility himself.

The fact we lost two daft goals shouldn't take away from the fact that tactically he got it wrong at the start of the game.

[snooky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Someone here mentioned that we kick off like that a lot and Aberdeen were ready for it.

Still makes me shudder watching that goal back.

I've never noticed that we kick off the same way. If that's the case, it's crazy. The equivalent of putting your pen kicks in the same corner every time. Definitely gives your opponent an advantage.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The shape of the team was completely wrong prior to Holt coming on. We offered absolutely nothing going forward as Cummings was so isolated. Lennon set the team up to play that way so he has to take some responsibility himself.

The fact we lost two daft goals shouldn't take away from the fact that tactically he got it wrong at the start of the game.

This. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two goals we conceded and the complete first half hour. The two goals were individual errors, not Neil Lennon fault in the slightest. The overall performance in the first half hour, which he called pathetic, like you said was down to him leaving Cummings isolated upfront and us not being able to get out our own half because of it. How people can't see this when the sub and change of formation totally changed the flow of the game is beyond me.

[Hibbyradge]

He's absolutely right.

I remember Alex Ferguson blasting his Aberdeen players for a lack lustre display after they had beaten Rangers to WIN the cup.

That's the kind of prodessional attitude I want from our manager.

The fans can be gallant losers, if they want. Neil Lennon is a winner.

[Hibbyradge]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two goals we conceded and the complete first half hour. The two goals were individual errors, not Neil Lennon fault in the slightest. The overall performance in the first half hour, which he called pathetic, like you said was down to him leaving Cummings isolated upfront and us not being able to get out our own half because of it. How people can't see this when the sub and change of formation totally changed the flow of the game is beyond me.

The 2 mistakes ruined our game plan. Apart from those errors, Aberdeen created zero chances even with the majority of possession.

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This. People don't seem to be able to differentiate between the two goals we conceded and the complete first half hour. The two goals were individual errors, not Neil Lennon fault in the slightest. The overall performance in the first half hour, which he called pathetic, like you said was down to him leaving Cummings isolated upfront and us not being able to get out our own half because of it. How people can't see this when the sub and change of formation totally changed the flow of the game is beyond me.

The first goal killed us that's why we struggled ...a stupid error...Aberdeen went for the kill and overun a nervy hibs for a while.
The game settled the players knew they had let themselves first and foremost. Upped there game.. tactical change worked at that point as the players played how we no they can.


Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[Eyrie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The 2 mistakes ruined our game plan. Apart from those errors, Aberdeen created zero chances even with the majority of possession.

I don't understand how Rooney's goal ruined our game plan.

That would mean that if McGregor had passed the ball to Ambrose or if Marciano had saved or if Rooney's shot was off target then the next 30 minutes would have been an even contest, instead of Aberdeen dominating us with constant pressure to stop us playing on the deck and then regaining possession when we hoofed the ball up to Cummings, who is ineffectual in that situation.

It would also mean that changing the formation by bringing on Holt would have had no impact on the game instead of turning it into an even contest and then looking the more likely team to go on and win.

Neither of the above would be correct. Losing an early goal due to individual errors was a set back, but there were 89 and a half minutes left to recover if we had a good enough game plan, which we didn't. The last time we were at Hampden we took the lead after three minutes, yet our opponents managed to recover and led after 64 minutes.

[neil7908]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The 2 mistakes ruined our game plan. Apart from those errors, Aberdeen created zero chances even with the majority of possession.

Genuinely curious what you think the game plan was as I couldn't see one! Yes Aberdeen didn't create huge number of chances but they dominated possession and we offered nothing going forward.

Lennon right to criticse players but shouldn't be immune himself

[matty_f]

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?

[truehibernian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?

I think getting the first goal would have really unsettled Aberdeen matty and had them thinking 'here we go again'. Like you say, no one can predict what would have happened. Getting back to 2-2 was a fantastic effort, but yet again Dylan's injury comes back to seriously impede our sides progress........he needs to have that sorted or for me he has to be replaced with a more consistent player.

Cummings disappointed me yesterday, very off the boil and lacked hunger. Holt, Boyle, and Gray all stuck to their task, Holt the MotM for us.

Note to Lennon though - there is no need to play two defensive midfielders against any Scottish side bar Celtic. Playing Bartley with Fyvie together was madness for me.

[21.05.2016]

I like this attitude. Lennons a winner and won't accept being second best even if it is against opposition who are better and we gave a good fight.

I like this mentality, its a winners mentality and i hope he drills it into the team.

[Billy Whizz]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think getting the first goal would have really unsettled Aberdeen matty and had them thinking 'here we go again'. Like you say, no one can predict what would have happened. Getting back to 2-2 was a fantastic effort, but yet again Dylan's injury comes back to seriously impede our sides progress........he needs to have that sorted or for me he has to be replaced with a more consistent player.

Cummings disappointed me yesterday, very off the boil and lacked hunger. Holt, Boyle, and Gray all stuck to their task, Holt the MotM for us.

Note to Lennon though - there is no need to play two defensive midfielders against any Scottish side bar Celtic. Playing Bartley with Fyvie together was madness for me.

On your last point, maybe that was our extra insurance policy for the 1st60 mins or so, however the players blew it after 12 seconds

[MWHIBBIES]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Winning mentality that this club has needed for a long time. This gallant losing thing that has been celebrated by the club in the recent past will not cut with Lennon.

This is the difference between top clubs and the rest. Would Celtic fans be applauding the come back performance if they had lost 3-2 to Aberdeen having been 2-0 down? He's spot on and the sooner we dont just meekly accept results like this the more we will win trophies.

Yeah, abusing our players when they lose is what we've been missing for years now...

Players give everything and lose to a total fluke? they deserve the support they got.

[truehibernian]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

On your last point, maybe that was our extra insurance policy for the 1st60 mins or so, however the players blew it after 12 seconds

For me Billy it tells McInnes we are set up to soak and counter and invites attack. If Aberdeen have a weak spot it's in central defence (for me) and we should have had two up top to mix it.

Like you say, you cannot legislate for the first goal and the timing it happened. Knocked us for six and we took an age to get some composure. The irony is the players will be sitting thinking today how close they were and how they were more than a match for Aberdeen - a real opportunity missed for me.

[MB62]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Note to Lennon though - there is no need to play two defensive midfielders against any Scottish side bar Celtic. Playing Bartley with Fyvie together was madness for me.

Aberdeen had four guys all ready to attack McGinn from kick off and their whole game plan was obviously to pressure us on the ball, which worked.
Playing Fyvie and Bartley in the same side just does not work, it never has done and was a big tactical mistake by Lennon. Fair enough, have a go at your players for the first 30 minutes of rubbish, but it was YOUR tactics that caused this. Fyvie and Bartley don't seem to know who should be doing what when they are in the same team playing the same role, it HAS to be one or other but NEVER both.
The extra midfield player meant leaving Cummings on his own up front, a role the laddie struggles with and was bullied out the game for the first 30 minutes. It also allowed Aberdeen an extra man to put pressure on us from midfield, and with Cummings being on his own, left the defence and midfield without an 'out' ball up the park. Their early goal didn't change anything tactically, we were just never in it. Their 2nd goal FORCED Lennon in to a change, thankfully (A bit Fenlon like v Falkirk at Hampden) and if he is going to have a dash at the players, then he at least should be man enough to admit to his own mistakes first.
I don't think we shat it in the first 30 minutes, we were just tactically inept. Taking off Fyvie allowed Bartley to play his normal game and the big man was impressive after that. Mainly though, bring on Holt gave the Dons defenders something to worry about and forced them in to a tactical change, leaving our midfield a bit more time on the ball and gave us the 'out' ball we didn't have earlier.
Lennon said the players have to play for 90 or 120 minutes if necessary, and of course he is right. However, that doesn't happen every single time, just like managers don't get their team selections and tactics right every single time.

[Billy Whizz]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

For me Billy it tells McInnes we are set up to soak and counter and invites attack. If Aberdeen have a weak spot it's in central defence (for me) and we should have had two up top to mix it.

Like you say, you cannot legislate for the first goal and the timing it happened. Knocked us for six and we took an age to get some composure. The irony is the players will be sitting thinking today how close they were and how they were more than a match for Aberdeen - a real opportunity missed for me.

I agree with your point that we should have been putting more pressure on their back 4, and it proved when we did, that it worked. A missed opportunity for Hibs

[Ronniekirk]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

For me Billy it tells McInnes we are set up to soak and counter and invites attack. If Aberdeen have a weak spot it's in central defence (for me) and we should have had two up top to mix it.

Like you say, you cannot legislate for the first goal and the timing it happened. Knocked us for six and we took an age to get some composure. The irony is the players will be sitting thinking today how close they were and how they were more than a match for Aberdeen - a real opportunity missed for me.

In hindsight i agree with this But i wasn't sure we could beat Aberdeen before the game so wasn't. getting to excited about our prospects
When Dylan equalised i genuinely thought there was Only going to be one winner Us Although Dylan going off injured was another blow we could of done without


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eyrie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't think anyone can say what would have happened if Aberdeen hadn't scored after 12 seconds. Tactics may have been a part of the next half hour but I think a more significant part was the lift Aberdeen got and the shock that we got. For that half hour we shat it and Aberdeen pressed us quickly and wth real urgency.
If the players had shown the composure that they did once Holt came on and calmed them down a bit, who knows how the tactical battle would have gone?

I don't get this view.

It means that the same players who were jambottling it as a result of conceding a goal after 12 seconds miraculously found their composure only after we had conceded a second and seen Aberdeen hit the side netting.

I find it simpler to consider that they found some composure after the change of formation and the immediate impact that the previously omitted second striker had.

[delbert]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yeah, abusing our players when they lose is what we've been missing for years now...

Players give everything and lose to a total fluke? they deserve the support they got.

Sorry, I don't think he is in any way abusing the players when he simply points out facts, the defending for the first two goals was utterly rank and that's what ultimately lost us the game, not just the fluke third. We have had to accept mediocrity for a long time up until Stubbs came in and I think it's great that we have now attracted a winner and a leader as his replacement, someone who will not accept the failures of the past. He praised the players for the good things they did in the last hour, but the first 30 minutes was comedy and they deserved the comments made, I've been bollocked at my work a few times and you deal with it !

[MWHIBBIES]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry, I don't think he is in any way abusing the players when he simply points out facts, the defending for the first two goals was utterly rank and that's what ultimately lost us the game, not just the fluke third. We have had to accept mediocrity for a long time up until Stubbs came in and I think it's great that we have now attracted a winner and a leader as his replacement, someone who will not accept the failures of the past. He praised the players for the good things they did in the last hour, but the first 30 minutes was comedy and they deserved the comments made, I've been bollocked at my work a few times and you deal with it !

I've no problem with Lennon criticising the players but he picked them and not starting Holt was his mistakes.

I was debating the point of us being wrong to cheer and applaud our players at full time. Personally I will always do that when they have worked so hard and played well overall.

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't get this view.

It means that the same players who were jambottling it as a result of conceding a goal after 12 seconds miraculously found their composure only after we had conceded a second and seen Aberdeen hit the side netting.

I find it simpler to consider that they found some composure after the change of formation and the immediate impact that the previously omitted second striker had.

Utter nonsense and quite frankly a scary assessment

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Utter nonsense and quite frankly a scary assessment

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

If his post is nonsense then what is it that you thought caused such a massive swing in the flow of the game that just happened to coincide with the substitution and change of tactics?

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If his post is nonsense then what is it that you thought caused such a massive swing in the flow of the game that just happened to coincide with the substitution and change of tactics?

Tactics don't come into it when you loose a goal so early..how can they?
Mcgregor was shocking and very unlikely him but cost us big time.
That gave Aberdeen the incentive to push on ,we were rattled no more.
Second goal Mcgeoch broke from the 2 man wall and caused the second goal.
Nothing else no tactics can allow for either of these mistakes.
Yes the game changed after that but I think the players went of for **** sake we better try harder was more the reason than any tactics

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Tactics don't come into it when you loose a goal so early..how can they?
Mcgregor was shocking and very unlikely him but cost us big time.
That gave Aberdeen the incentive to push on ,we were rattled no more.
Second goal Mcgeoch broke from the 2 man wall and caused the second goal.
Nothing else no tactics can allow for either of these mistakes.
Yes the game changed after that but I think the players went of for **** sake we better try harder was more the reason than any tactics

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

I find the idea that the players decided half an hour and 2-0 down in a cup semi final that it was time to "try harder" to be a lot more like nonsense than the idea that the substitute and change of tactics lead to us having an out ball and being able to hold the ball up and actually get out our own half.

Nobodies debating the goals whether the goals were the result of individual mistakes or not, cause they definitely were. But the fact we couldn't string two passes together for half an hour because we had nobody upfront to hit was 100% a fault of the tactics/formation/personnel that we started the game with.

[matty_f]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't get this view.

It means that the same players who were jambottling it as a result of conceding a goal after 12 seconds miraculously found their composure only after we had conceded a second and seen Aberdeen hit the side netting.

I find it simpler to consider that they found some composure after the change of formation and the immediate impact that the previously omitted second striker had.

What I'm saying is that we can't say how the game would have stayed had a) Aberdeen not got a massive lift from the immediate goal, and b) Hibs weren't so rocked by conceding an immediate goal.

Imagine McGinn had evaded the initial tackles and we scored right from kick off, do you think the next twenty minutes of the have would have played out the same as they actually did?

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I find the idea that the players decided half an hour and 2-0 down in a cup semi final that it was time to "try harder" to be a lot more like nonsense than the idea that the substitute and change of tactics lead to us having an out ball and being able to hold the ball up and actually get out our own half.

Nobodies debating the goals whether the goals were the result of individual mistakes or not, cause they definitely were. But the fact we couldn't string two passes together for half an hour because we had nobody upfront to hit was 100% a fault of the tactics/formation/personnel that we started the game with.

Calumn if you think that tactics were to cause for us being 2 down then sorry pal you don't have a clue. No amount of tactics could solve these errors .
And yes something kicks in when you are down I read on here most weeks everyone slagging Holt now you try to tell me he is out savior lol I don't think so

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What I'm saying is that we can't say how the game would have stayed had a) Aberdeen not got a massive lift from the immediate goal, and b) Hibs weren't so rocked by conceding an immediate goal.

Imagine McGinn had evaded the initial tackles and we scored right from kick off, do you think the next twenty minutes of the have would have played out the same as they actually did?

Absolutely. The key thing was that our game plan went out of the window after 12 seconds due to a sequence of three individual mistakes.

I think Lenny went a bit overboard with his criticism tbh. Yes, he can be frustrated at the mistakes but we turned the game around and lost due to a cruel piece of bad luck.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Calumn if you think that tactics were to cause for us being 2 down then sorry pal you don't have a clue. No amount of tactics could solve these errors .
And yes something kicks in when you are down I read on here most weeks everyone slagging Holt now you try to tell me he is out savior lol I don't think so

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Did you just totally ignore my post? I specifically said that the 2 goals were individual errors

So you think the explanation to our resurgence was that at 2-0 down something just naturally kicked in with the players and made them go from a performance that could only be described as a 1/10, mainly because Cummings was so isolated upfront, in the first half hour, turned into an 8/10 performance in the last hour and it just happened to coincide with us making the sub and changing formation and Cummings no longer being isolated upfront? Yet I don't have a clue?

[Greenworld]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Did you just totally ignore my post? I specifically said that the 2 goals were individual errors

So you think the explanation to our resurgence was that at 2-0 down something just naturally kicked in with the players and made them go from a performance that could only be described as a 1/10, mainly because Cummings was so isolated upfront, in the first half hour, turned into an 8/10 performance in the last hour and it just happened to coincide with us making the sub and changing formation and Cummings no longer being isolated upfront? Yet I don't have a clue?

I think you are blinkered by the one up front being a signicant factor.
You yourself point out that the goals were individual errors .
The substitution did make an impact no doubt about it however in thinking about it now what did Cummings contribute after or before that ..hee haw
So in many respects we were still one up front .😂😂😂

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think you are blinkered by the one up front being a signicant factor.
You yourself point out that the goals were individual errors .
The substitution did make an impact no doubt about it however in thinking about it now what did Cummings contribute after or before that ..hee haw
So in many respects we were still one up front .😂😂😂

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

The one upfront for the first half hour was a significant factor in our first half hour performance where we couldn't string two passes together or get out of our own half..