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  1. #121
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I think broadly speaking the right is dominated by the desire to retain (conserve) wealth, privilege and power among those who already enjoy them. In order to build a large enough electoral coalition in a democracy they have to offer enough of a carrot for the aspirational to think they might be able to cross the bridge and in order to actually get elected it has to be watered down to the extent they are pulling the centre rightwards.

    What we saw in the 80s and are probably beginning to see again is what happens when you take away the threat of electoral punishment due to a shambolic opposition. They do what the **** they want and mostly it's pretty scary.
    In their response to the rape clause yesterday, it looks like they want the Scottish Parliament to raise taxes in Scotland to enable them to mitigate a Tory policy from London.

    Oh well. Higher rate tax payers, prepare to pay.


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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    In their response to the rape clause yesterday, it looks like they want the Scottish Parliament to raise taxes in Scotland to enable them to mitigate a Tory policy from London.

    Oh well. Higher rate tax payers, prepare to pay.
    Ruth Davidson walks into your house, takes a big steaming jobby on your coffee table, pulls up her breaks and says "What? You've got a bottle of pledge under the kitchen sink!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    In their response to the rape clause yesterday, it looks like they want the Scottish Parliament to raise taxes in Scotland to enable them to mitigate a Tory policy from London.

    Oh well. Higher rate tax payers, prepare to pay.
    They already do pay more in scotland.

  5. #124
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    They already do pay more in scotland.
    Even more, after all that's what Ruth has recommended.

    I thought you were handing back your child benefit though😨
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 14-04-2017 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Even more, after all that's what Ruth has recommended.

    I thought you were handing back your child benefit though😨
    So wait... are you now having a go at the tories for being too left wing?

    Thats a bit odd, i thought you were all fpr higher taxes?

    Or are you just annoyed it highlights rhe SNPs cowardice to put their money where their mouths are, raise taxes and pay the electoral price?

    On child benefit, when did i say i would give it back? I dont recall that, and im not at the threshold whete you can opt out or get means tested anyway. I think i said i dont rely on it, and i wouldnt mind if it were used elsewhere for those who needed it more. But i certainly wouldnt hand any money back, as it is, it pays for my childs swimming classes.

  7. #126
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    So wait... are you now having a go at the tories for being too left wing?

    Thats a bit odd, i thought you were all fpr higher taxes?

    Or are you just annoyed it highlights rhe SNPs cowardice to put their money where their mouths are, raise taxes and pay the electoral price?

    On child benefit, when did i say i would give it back? I dont recall that, and im not at the threshold whete you can opt out or get means tested anyway. I think i said i dont rely on it, and i wouldnt mind if it were used elsewhere for those who needed it more. But i certainly wouldnt hand any money back, as it is, it pays for my childs swimming classes.
    Tories, left wing.

    Just pointing out that Ruth has asked the Scottish Gov to mitigate the Rape clause bandits from Westminster, whilst she's not asked them to do so.

    Maybe WM will give us some of the cash they save from the policy they've just enacted, we can then hand it back to those in need.

    I was sure you said you didn't need child benefits, so why not send them back? I'm sure someone else who's more in need would benefit from your benevolence.

  8. #127
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Tories, left wing.

    Just pointing out that Ruth has asked the Scottish Gov to mitigate the Rape clause bandits from Westminster, whilst she's not asked them to do so.

    Maybe WM will give us some of the cash they save from the policy they've just enacted, we can then hand it back to those in need.

    I was sure you said you didn't need child benefits, so why not send them back? I'm sure someone else who's more in need would benefit from your benevolence.
    Tories don't do benevolence. Dontchaknow
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Tories, left wing.

    Just pointing out that Ruth has asked the Scottish Gov to mitigate the Rape clause bandits from Westminster, whilst she's not asked them to do so.

    Maybe WM will give us some of the cash they save from the policy they've just enacted, we can then hand it back to those in need.

    I was sure you said you didn't need child benefits, so why not send them back? I'm sure someone else who's more in need would benefit from your benevolence.
    Im not that benevolent! I dont need it, in the sense that i dont depend on it. But im not gonna turn down money.

    Ok, so what is your concern about that? Ismt that how devolution is supposed to work?

    I dont understand your issue with this?

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Im not that benevolent! I dont need it, in the sense that i dont depend on it. But im not gonna turn down money.

    Ok, so what is your concern about that? Ismt that how devolution is supposed to work?

    I dont understand your issue with this?
    We've already mitigated over 400Million worth of policies which have been foisted onto us. Lucky we have a Government who look after the people rather than shaft them eh.

    Why would Ruth want us to mitigate a policy her own party foisted on us? Why is she not telling those at WM to mitigate it?

    Take, take, take, it's all you Tories do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    We've already mitigated over 400Million worth of policies which have been foisted onto us. Lucky we have a Government who look after the people rather than shaft them eh.

    Why would Ruth want us to mitigate a policy her own party foisted on us? Why is she not telling those at WM to mitigate it?

    Take, take, take, it's all you Tories do.
    You havent answered the question though. The elected govt of the UK enacted a policy, the scottish goct doesnt agree, and has both the means and the power to do something about that - so why wont they?

    Let me suggest it may be because the SNP need to have 'tory (i.e. english) policies to fuel the grievance they rely on, and also, that they dont want to expose the lie that actually, despite all of the 'scots are more socialist' pish, we dont like tax rises anymore than those English tories do.

    Either of those close to the mark?

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Im not that benevolent! I dont need it, in the sense that i dont depend on it. But im not gonna turn down money.

    Ok, so what is your concern about that? Ismt that how devolution is supposed to work?

    I dont understand your issue with this?
    Without going back through your posts I'm pretty sure you said you didn't depend on it and would be happy to see it spent elsewhere. If you did say that can I take it what you actually meant was that you wanted to keep yours but were happy to see others who may actually depend on it lose theirs so it could be spent elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weecounty hibby View Post
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    Without going back through your posts I'm pretty sure you said you didn't depend on it and would be happy to see it spent elsewhere. If you did say that can I take it what you actually meant was that you wanted to keep yours but were happy to see others who may actually depend on it lose theirs so it could be spent elsewhere.
    How do you get that? No, you would be absolutely wrong to say that.

    I would be happy if the benefit was not universal, and me and others who dont need it didnt get it.

    But if the govt says i should have it, then i will take it.

  14. #133
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    You havent answered the question though. The elected govt of the UK enacted a policy, the scottish goct doesnt agree, and has both the means and the power to do something about that - so why wont they?

    Let me suggest it may be because the SNP need to have 'tory (i.e. english) policies to fuel the grievance they rely on, and also, that they dont want to expose the lie that actually, despite all of the 'scots are more socialist' pish, we dont like tax rises anymore than those English tories do.

    Either of those close to the mark?
    Tax Credits are a reserved issue are they not. So you are proposing that the SG sets up new payments to pay those disadvantaged by the UK gov. Seems a bit of a waste of money to me, with all those set up costs.

    You seem to think money grows on trees, should we take it out of the Education budget, or maybe the NHS budget, Local government? You choose, where will it come from?

    Now if only the Tories, and Labour parties had decided not to block the Welfare powers at SMITH, which we need to look after those in poverty.

    I'd rather we had all the levers of power to enable us to do the job correctly, instead of mitigating bad policies from WM.

    C83yNCBXsAA11yF.jpg Our lever is on the right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Tax Credits are a reserved issue are they not. So you are proposing that the SG sets up new payments to pay those disadvantaged by the UK gov. Seems a bit of a waste of money to me, with all those set up costs.

    You seem to think money grows on trees, should we take it out of the Education budget, or maybe the NHS budget, Local government? You choose, where will it come from?

    Now if only the Tories, and Labour parties had decided not to block the Welfare powers at SMITH, which we need to look after those in poverty.

    I'd rather we had all the levers of power to enable us to do the job correctly, instead of mitigating bad policies from WM.

    C83yNCBXsAA11yF.jpg Our lever is on the right.
    Ha ha, i think money grows on trees?? Have we swapped roles?!

    They could raise taxes i think? I dont know about tax credits, i thought we were talking about child benefit? That may be reserved to, i dont know


    The rest of your post is classic SNP under sturgeon - moaning about things in the past, and all of the things that you cannot do, while ignoring all the things that could be done.

    By the way just for clarity, im not advocating this. Im just pointing out that the SG could alter things for scotland if thdy chose to. You seem to be advocating, bizarrely, that they dont.

    I can't imagine why...
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 14-04-2017 at 06:13 PM.

  16. #135
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ha ha, i think money grows on trees?? Have we swapped roles?!

    They could raise taxes i think? I dont know about tax credits, i thought we were talking about child benefit? That may be reserved to, i dont know


    The rest of your post is classic SNP under sturgeon - moaning about things in the past, and all of the things that you cannot do, while ignoring all the things that could be done.
    And so...We're back to my original point. Your taxes are having to go up to pay for Ruth's plan. Don't get all hot under the collar when they do though.

    Which taxes should we raise then, or are you cutting the budgets to the NHS, Education, Local Gov, over to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    And so...We're back to my original point. Your taxes are having to go up to pay for Ruth's plan. Don't get all hot under the collar when they do though.
    It seems to be you and your dear leader who is baulking at tax rises.

    Why is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    And so...We're back to my original point. Your taxes are having to go up to pay for Ruth's plan. Don't get all hot under the collar when they do though.

    Which taxes should we raise then, or are you cutting the budgets to the NHS, Education, Local Gov, over to you.
    Well, the council tax, which youd party forced councils to freeze for years, despite their protestations.

    Or perhaps income tax? We argued very hard for those powers.

    Why are the nats, a left of centre party, so reluctant to use their powers?

    Is it because they like amd need the grievance? In which case they are sacrificing vulnerable people for their own political ends.

    Or is it because it exposes the fact that scots dont like payimg taxes as much as anyone else?

    Or is it another reason?

  19. #138
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    It seems to be you and your dear leader who is baulking at tax rises.

    Why is that?
    You argued earlier on that we were paying more than enough, which is it today, more, or less?

    What's it to be mate, a hit on Education, Nhs, local gov?

    Dear Leader, nice touch, you're mask has well and truly slipped today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    You argued earlier on that we were paying more than enough, which is it today, more, or less?

    What's it to be mate, a hit on Education, Nhs, local gov?

    Dear Leader, nice touch, you're mask has well and truly slipped today.
    Im not arguing for anything here.

    It is you who is arguimg against something (uk benefit reform) but are refusing to say why your party wont take the necessary steps to ameliorate them?

    Have you not got your lines throug from crichton's close yet?

  21. #140
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Well, the council tax, which youd party forced councils to freeze for years, despite their protestations.

    Or perhaps income tax? We argued very hard for those powers.

    Why are the nats, a left of centre party, so reluctant to use their powers?

    Is it because they like amd need the grievance? In which case they are sacrificing vulnerable people for their own political ends.

    Or is it because it exposes the fact that scots dont like payimg taxes as much as anyone else?

    Or is it another reason?
    Good, let's tax those high earners more, and we can link it to tax credits for the needy, whilst thanking Ruth all the time. Win, win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Good, let's tax those high earners more, and we can link it to tax credits for the needy, whilst thanking Ruth all the time. Win, win.
    Ok, so why is your party so keen to avoid that?

    Are you saying that you think an SNP policy is wrong?

    Why do you think they are so reluctant to do it?

  23. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    You argued earlier on that we were paying more than enough, which is it today, more, or less?

    What's it to be mate, a hit on Education, Nhs, local gov?

    Dear Leader, nice touch, you're mask has well and truly slipped today.
    if the dear leader gets her way and we become the peoples republic you will have to worship her statue every day or face the possibility of joining me and southside in the gulags

  24. #143
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    You seem to think money grows on trees, should we take it out of the Education budget, or maybe the NHS budget, Local government? You choose, where will it come from?
    Got to laugh at your comment the amount of times your solution for the issue of the day is spending money or disagreeing with any cut backs that are being made, blaming everyone but you know who.

    I have first hand experience of how badly our education system is letting down children with additional needs, every time I raise concerns it's the same answer I get, lack of budget. Remind who is responsible for education in this country again?

  25. #144
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ok, so why is your party so keen to avoid that?

    Are you saying that you think an SNP policy is wrong?

    Why do you think they are so reluctant to do it?
    Evidence was against it. I on the other hand would tax the rich to the hilt.
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 14-04-2017 at 07:33 PM.

  26. #145
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Got to laugh at your comment the amount of times your solution for the issue of the day is spending money or disagreeing with any cut backs that are being made, blaming everyone but you know who.

    I have first hand experience of how badly our education system is letting down children with additional needs, every time I raise concerns it's the same answer I get, lack of budget. Remind who is responsible for education in this country again?
    I don't need to remind you on Education,you know already. Our budget on the other hand...

    Still not received the answers on how to pay though, when we're already paying for so many other things.
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 14-04-2017 at 07:32 PM.

  27. #146
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Ev

    Evidence was against it. I on the other hand would tax the rich to the hilt.
    Can you define rich? How much do you need to earn to be rich in your eyes?

  28. #147
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I don't need to remind you on Education,you know already. Our budget on the other hand...
    So accepting no blame or responsibility what so ever? Yes or No will do.

  29. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Ev

    Evidence was against it. I on the other hand would tax the rich to the hilt.
    What evidence was that?

    Yeah i know, which is why i found your defence of your party so bizarre, amd why i used dear leader - because the strict diacipline imposed by the SNP on their officials is easy to satire as north korean.

    I am also convinced that the lengths you go to to avoid any criticism of the party, means that you work for them.

  30. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    What evidence was that?

    Yeah i know, which is why i found your defence of your party so bizarre, amd why i used dear leader - because the strict diacipline imposed by the SNP on their officials is easy to satire as north korean.

    I am also convinced that the lengths you go to to avoid any criticism of the party, means that you work for them.
    Maybe you have hit the nail on the head? R7 do you work for the SNP? Your defence of them is admirable but bordering on the bizarre in some cases.

  31. #150
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    So accepting no blame or responsibility what so ever? Yes or No will do.
    The budget is pre set. I'd thought you'd have known that, and the constant cuts from Westminster won't help. You seem happy with that.

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