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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    As I get older I do see that what your politics are does not make you a nice or good person. I worked in the Scottish Parliament for a bit and Tommy Sheridan treated the civil servants like something on the sole of his shoe whereas Lord James Douglas Hamilton was a really nice guy (although a bit 'Tim Nice-but-Dim' at times).
    It's a good point. I also know from civil servants of my acquaintance that Salmond was loathed by most during his time at Holyrood and that for them FM privately stood for Fat Man.

    As I've flagged up before somewhere on these forums, Mhairi Black's comments about Jacob Rees-Mogg were refreshing (although probably indicative of how unpleasant political relationships can be in general):

    "I could sit and listen to him all day, I disagree with him 99.9 per cent of the time, but I love listening to him, his knowledge is incredible, and he’s so polite."



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Which has already been proved wrong. No matter how often you repeat it, it is still not true.

    Here are some facts.

    UK electorate in 2015 = 44.7million

    Conservative votes in 2015 = 11.3milion

    So 25% of the electorate voted Conservative.

    37% votes cast for Conservatives resulted in 51% seats

    61% of votes cast for other parties resulted in 49% seats

    Now that is worth a WOW.
    How about 3.9 million votes cast for UKIP resulting in 1 MP (the largest vote to seat ratio in British political history), 1.1 million Green votes resulting in 1 MP and 1.45 million votes for the SNP resulting in 56 seats. A bigger WOW surely?

    So the first past the post system isn't perfect, but under proportional representation we'd have more than 80 UKIP MPs and barely 30 SNP MPs. A scary prospect.

    Yet you also cite the (arguably fairer) list system deployed in Scotland to downplay the Tory performance in last year's Scottish parliamentary elections so I'm not sure if I understand your point.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Common decency is a good place to start.
    So ask for no evidence? You really dont think people would abuse that system?

    Or ask for a criminal conviction - but then they are notoriously difficult to get.

  5. #64
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    So ask for no evidence? You really dont think people would abuse that system?

    Or ask for a criminal conviction - but then they are notoriously difficult to get.
    Why have the policy in the first place?

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member Mon Dieu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    ...or of Donald Trump being elected US President?

    I'm not saying it's going to happen but 2021 is a long way off and few would probably have bet on Davidson's party pushing Labour into third place in last year's Scottish Parliamentary elections. She's done a good job so far as leader and as well as providing a strong pro-UK voice for those who have no wish for indyref2 (in comparison to Labour's muddled approach to the matter) her everyday demeanour and 'non posh' Buckhaven High education has probably attracted a number of voters who would not previously have voted Tory.

    Anyway, the odds were there for anyone to see:

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/b...ter/223105584/

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/unc...evealed-today/
    Then when I get back to earth I find that Cathro has said something cohesive

    Bookies odds change dependent on bets put on, the next election is 4 years away, someone has stuck 100 on her and she goes straight to being the favourite

    I don't mind Ruth Davidson one bit, I think she is a very capable politician, she does however get a tad shouty for my liking and in the last 2 years mentioned independence more than the SNP ever did, being a Tory Leader in Scotland is an easy job contrary to what people claim any gain and you are seen as some political genius but getting 23% of a vote when Labour have went into Nuclear meltdown was actually pretty rank in my opinion and about the best they can possibly hope for

    As for Trump, we weren't talking about two popular people in that election, Sturgeon has the highest rating of any leader(well last time I checked) a better comparison would be Davidson V someone like Jim Murphy, do you want a poke in the eye or a boot in the baws

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Why have the policy in the first place?
    Ah, so its not the 'rape clause' thats the problem, its simply that its a UK, tory govt policy - therefore bad.

    You know why the policy has been implemented, and it would start another circular argument we have had before.

    Suffice to say, the democratically elected UK govt habe enacted the measurr to help reduce govt spending. Agree with it or not, but dont pretend your outrage is anything other that inspired by narrow partisanship.

  8. #67
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ah, so its not the 'rape clause' thats the problem, its simply that its a UK, tory govt policy - therefore bad.

    You know why the policy has been implemented, and it would start another circular argument we have had before.

    Suffice to say, the democratically elected UK govt habe enacted the measurr to help reduce govt spending. Agree with it or not, but dont pretend your outrage is anything other that inspired by narrow partisanship.
    Of course it's the rape clause. The clause being implemented by the UK Gov.

    This is the country you wish to live in, alternatively, I want to live in a country that wouldn't implement such a draconian law.

    The choice to be made is whether you agree with your Government implementing such a law, and it seems you do, or mine which wouldn't.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ah, so its not the 'rape clause' thats the problem, its simply that its a UK, tory govt policy - therefore bad.

    You know why the policy has been implemented, and it would start another circular argument we have had before.

    Suffice to say, the democratically elected UK govt habe enacted the measurr to help reduce govt spending. Agree with it or not, but dont pretend your outrage is anything other that inspired by narrow partisanship.
    It's an awful policy no matter who introduced it. Looks like May's Tories are just as nasty as any other Tories.
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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Of course it's the rape clause. The clause being implemented by the UK Gov.

    This is the country you wish to live in, alternatively, I want to live in a country that wouldn't implement such a draconian law.

    The choice to be made is whether you agree with your Government implementing such a law, and it seems you do, or mine which wouldn't.
    Are you opposed to a limit on child benefit?

  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member Hiber-nation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    It's a good point. I also know from civil servants of my acquaintance that Salmond was loathed by most during his time at Holyrood and that for them FM privately stood for Fat Man.

    As I've flagged up before somewhere on these forums, Mhairi Black's comments about Jacob Rees-Mogg were refreshing (although probably indicative of how unpleasant political relationships can be in general):

    "I could sit and listen to him all day, I disagree with him 99.9 per cent of the time, but I love listening to him, his knowledge is incredible, and hes so polite."

    Not in my experience. He had his moments but was generally fine.

    The 2 worst by a mile were Michael Forsyth and Wendy Alexander. Both nasty pieces of work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Of course it's the rape clause. The clause being implemented by the UK Gov.

    This is the country you wish to live in, alternatively, I want to live in a country that wouldn't implement such a draconian law.

    The choice to be made is whether you agree with your Government implementing such a law, and it seems you do, or mine which wouldn't.
    What is draconian, the rule capping benefits at two children, or the 'rape clause'?

    I can see why people might not agree with the cap at two children, but i would hardly call it draconian. All benefits habe to be limited at some point.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 06-04-2017 at 09:03 PM.

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    What is draconian, the rule capping benefits at two children, or the 'rape clause'?

    I can see why people might not agree with the cap at two children, but i would hardly call it draconian.
    Or means testing it. Used to be a universal benefit.

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Or means testing it. Used to be a universal benefit.
    Sure, but hardly draconian. Its a mildly controversial at most, change to criteria for a benefit.

    I get child benefit, while useful (what money isnt?) we dont depend on it, and id be happy for that money to be used elsewhere or saved.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Sure, but hardly draconian. Its a mildly controversial at most, change to criteria for a benefit.

    I get child benefit, while useful (what money isnt?) we dont depend on it, and id be happy for that money to be used elsewhere or saved.
    ...and that is the thin end of the wedge that the tories have inserted which leads us back to the means tested system of the 1930s.

  16. #75
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    I would nail my baws to a plank of wood with rusty nails before I'd vote Tory - ever. Almost every piece of progressive legislation in Britain has been passed in spite of them, not because of them. Some I despise more than others; a very small number I only mildly dislike.

    The latest set of Tory benefit cuts started this week.
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  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Are you opposed to a limit on child benefit?
    I'm in favour of giving our children the opportunities in life that they deserve. All Children. If a government decides to introduce policies that restrict that, then yes.

    Bairns not Bombs as they say.

  18. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I'm in favour of giving our children the opportunities in life that they deserve. All Children. If a government decides to introduce policies that restrict that, then yes.

    Bairns not Bombs as they say.
    We're on to the deserving and undeserving poor. Tory win!

  19. #78
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    We're on to the deserving and undeserving poor. Tory win!
    I don't accept the term deserving/undeserving poor. If they're poor, they're poor.

  20. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I don't accept the term deserving/undeserving poor. If they're poor, they're poor.
    Me neither!

  21. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I'm in favour of giving our children the opportunities in life that they deserve. All Children. If a government decides to introduce policies that restrict that, then yes.

    Bairns not Bombs as they say.

    If there is a more stupid, meaningless and trite poltical slogan, i have yet to read it.

    What does it even mean? Are you saying we should cut all our defence spending and give it to child benefit? Or are you saying we should habe a military and not give them any bombs?

    Or are you saying we should fire bairns out of our artillery? Then child benefit would be someone elses problem i suppose.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 06-04-2017 at 10:11 PM.

  22. #81
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    If there is a more stupid, meaningless and trite poltical slogan, i have yet to read it.

    What does it even mean? Are you saying we should cut all our defence spending and give it to child benefit? Or are you saying we should habe a military and not give them any bombs?

    Or are you saying we should fire bairns out of our artillery? Then child benefit would be someone elses problem i suppose.


    You're all over the place tonight, China. Best you get some rest and come to it with a clear head in the morning.


  23. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    If there is a more stupid, meaningless and trite poltical slogan, i have yet to read it.

    .
    Although I am an SNP supporter who despises the tories, I agree with that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    If there is a more stupid, meaningless and trite poltical slogan, i have yet to read it.

    What does it even mean? Are you saying we should cut all our defence spending and give it to child benefit? Or are you saying we should habe a military and not give them any bombs?

    Or are you saying we should fire bairns out of our artillery? Then child benefit would be someone elses problem i suppose.
    This post probably says more about you than the rest of your posts put together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I'm in favour of giving our children the opportunities in life that they deserve. All Children. If a government decides to introduce policies that restrict that, then yes.

    Bairns not Bombs as they say.
    I absolutely agree, all children should get the best start possible.

    But that has to be realistic too. A govt cant legislate away feckwit parents. There has to be parentl responsibility.

    And this is where politics becomes much more difficult than easy slogans, because at some point, going out of your way to help some kids means that others start being disadvantaged, one way or another. Its not as simple as all that.

    And of course someone has to pay for it. That will be those middle classes again eh, those kulaks who work hard, do the right things and take advantage of our free, universal education to get good jobs. Yeah, hit them, those bourgeois wannabe tories. Theu deserve it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I absolutely agree, all children should get the best start possible.

    But that has to be realistic too. A govt cant legislate away feckwit parents. There has to be parentl responsibility.

    And this is where politics becomes much more difficult than easy slogans, because at some point, going out of your way to help some kids means that others start being disadvantaged, one way or another. Its not as simple as all that.

    And of course someone has to pay for it. That will be those middle classes again eh, those kulaks who work hard, do the right things and take advantage of our free, universal education to get good jobs. Yeah, hit them, those bourgeois wannabe tories. Theu deserve it.

    Education, education, education!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    You're all over the place tonight, China. Best you get some rest and come to it with a clear head in the morning.

    Am i?

    Becaause i think the world is more complicated than an SNP bumper sticker suggests?

    Ok then mate. When you grow up, maybe you will see the world isnt black and white.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 06-04-2017 at 10:27 PM.

  28. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiber-nation View Post
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    Although I am an SNP supporter who despises the tories, I agree with that!
    Does it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I absolutely agree, all children should get the best start possible.

    But that has to be realistic too. A govt cant legislate away feckwit parents. There has to be parentl responsibility.

    And this is where politics becomes much more difficult than easy slogans, because at some point, going out of your way to help some kids means that others start being disadvantaged, one way or another. Its not as simple as all that.

    And of course someone has to pay for it. That will be those middle classes again eh, those kulaks who work hard, do the right things and take advantage of our free, universal education to get good jobs. Yeah, hit them, those bourgeois wannabe tories. Theu deserve it.
    Jeez, you make it sound like it's the middle class are the only ones who put in a shift. You're just trolling now and attacking the man not the ball. You know fine well he meant that he'd prioritise education over expensive status symbol defence systems. That's a fair argument and undeserving of your embarrassingly obnoxious attempt at ridicule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Jeez, you make it sound like it's the middle class are the only ones who put in a shift. You're just trolling now and attacking the man not the ball. You know fine well he meant that he'd prioritise education over expensive status symbol defence systems. That's a fair argument and undeserving of your embarrassingly obnoxious attempt at ridicule.
    I didnt know that at all. We were talking about child benefit, not education. Two very different things. Amd i used ridicule to illustrate how pathetic that slogan is. I wasnt ridiculing ronaldo, i was ridiculing the slogan he quoted.

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    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I didnt know that at all. We were talking about child benefit, not education. Two very different things. Amd i used ridicule to illustrate how pathetic that slogan is. I wasnt ridiculing ronaldo, i was ridiculing the slogan he quoted.
    Child benefit, education, nurseries, free school meals, child protection, child health care and anything else to ensure our kids have every chance to ensure our future as opposed to atomic weapons that have no other purpose than to insure the UK has a seat at the top table. You know fine well what he meant. Bairns not bombs.

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