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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4 View Post
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    There is more chance of me signing for Hibs, scoring the winner in the champions league final then nailing Mila Kunis on a rocket to mars than Davidson becoming the next first minister
    I did have a laugh at that but, genuinely, didn't think it worthy of a response.


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
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    I was (talking about Scotland) or do you now dictate the content of the debate?

    Historically being the 1950's?

    There will always be a core Conservative vote, mainly made up of those who want to protect what they've got. Thatcherites I'd call them.
    No i dont dictate, the person who made the point i was answering dictated the terms.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    No i dont dictate, the person who made the point i was answering dictated the terms.
    So I changed the terms of the debate. Now answer my question. Are you harking back to the 1950's?

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
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    So I changed the terms of the debate. Now answer my question. Are you harking back to the 1950's?
    Ok, very cathroesque of you, to shift the paradigm..!

    Not necessarily. While undountedly their heyday, i think they still did ok into the 70s and possibly even early 80s. But i may be wrong on that so happy to stand corrected.

    Obviously they collapsed into the 90s, faced the new labour years in rhe UK, and also struggled as the SNP were the main opposition to the lib-labs up here.

    But for a party full of horrible, despised avaricious monsters, to help beat off the yes side, then surge at Holyrood to become fhe official opposition pulling around 20% of the vote, an awful lot of Scots must be horrible people too.

    Will ne interesting to see if they can make gains at council elections.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Let us look at the facts (for Scotland)

    GE 2015

    Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson and her team are said to have felt a mixture of relief and disappointment after the election results came in.

    Strategists were happy to avoid a wipeout - the party held on to sole MP David Mundell - but the Conservatives again failed to make progress.

    The harsh truth is that the 14.9% vote share was the worst result since the Scottish Tories were formed in 1965.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Let us look at the facts (for Scotland)

    GE 2015
    So worst ever, and still polled 15% of the vote.

    How did they do at the subsequent holyrood elections a year later?

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ok, very cathroesque of you, to shift the paradigm..!

    Not necessarily. While undountedly their heyday, i think they still did ok into the 70s and possibly even early 80s. But i may be wrong on that so happy to stand corrected.

    Obviously they collapsed into the 90s, faced the new labour years in rhe UK, and also struggled as the SNP were the main opposition to the lib-labs up here.

    But for a party full of horrible, despised avaricious monsters, to help beat off the yes side, then surge at Holyrood to become fhe official opposition pulling around 20% of the vote, an awful lot of Scots must be horrible people too.

    Will ne interesting to see if they can make gains at council elections.
    I've never suggested Conservative voters are horrible people, indeed, I have friends who vote Conservative.

    What I will say though is that they (including my friends) are firmly in the 'charity begins at home' camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
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    I've never suggested Conservative voters are horrible people, indeed, I have friends who vote Conservative.

    What I will say though is that they (including my friends) are firmly in the 'charity begins at home' camp.
    Ok apologies, it was the party you agreed were contemptuous, not the people who voted for it. I misrepresented what you said, my mistake.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    No i dont dictate, the person who made the point i was answering dictated the terms.
    Actually... seeing you like majorities, most of the posts on this thread refer to Scotland in some way.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Actually... seeing you like majorities, most of the posts on this thread refer to Scotland in some way.
    WTF, so you are now challenging me on what i thought i was answering, when i answered someone referring to the UK?

    Wow.

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ok apologies, it was the party you agreed were contemptuous, not the people who voted for it. I misrepresented what you said, my mistake.
    No need to apologise SHB. All good fun.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    So worst ever, and still polled 15% of the vote.

    How did they do at the subsequent holyrood elections a year later?
    Seeing you asked.

    First votes SNP 1,059,897 Con 501,844 Lab 514,261

    So not even 2nd for peoples first vote.....
















    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Seeing you asked.

    First votes SNP 1,059,897 Con 501,844 Lab 514,261

    So not even 2nd for peoples first vote.....

















    and that's with Labour in freefall apparently

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    [QUOTE=Golden Fleece;5001474]Seeing you asked.

    First votes SNP 1,059,897 Con 501,844 Lab 514,261

    So not even 2nd for peoples first vote.....


    Thats a VERY selective way to use facts, in a system where you get two votes.

    But even allowing for that, they are almost exactly half as popular as the SNP. Not bad for such a contemptable party.

    And of course the 2nd biggest party at holyrood, which you well know.

    You will also know they habe 30 odd seats, amd saw their share of the vote rise by far more than any other party, and actually gained ground on the nats.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 06-04-2017 at 01:22 PM.

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Thats a VERY selective way to use facts, in a system where you get two votes.

    But even allowing for that, they are almost exactly half as popular as the SNP. Not bad for such a contemptable party.

    And of course the 2nd biggest party at holyrood, which you well know.

    You will also know they habe 30 odd seats, amd saw their share of the vote rise by far more than any other party, and actually gained ground on the nats.

    You asked, I answered. FPTP votes, tories were third. it is a fact the figures don't lie.

    Now the good news, they doubled the number of seats from before. But the Greens trebled theirs. See what I did.

    you can make things look good, on the surface, but the underlying facts sometimes reveal something very different.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    On a day the Conservative and Unionist party, as the UK gov, introduce a form you have to fill in if you want to claim child tax credits for your 3rd child, after being raped, I never thought they could stoop so low.

    This is what some on here are voting for.

    From the mouths of the poor, so the rich can plant conifers. That's the modern day Tory party.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/re...ssive-10157080

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    On a day the Conservative and Unionist party, as the UK gov, introduce a form you have to fill in if you want to claim child tax credits for your 3rd child, after being raped, I never thought they could stoop so low.

    This is what some on here are voting for.

    From the mouths of the poor, so the rich can plant conifers. That's the modern day Tory party.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/re...ssive-10157080
    Sorry mate, refuse to click on link to that rag.

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    You asked, I answered. FPTP votes, tories were third. it is a fact the figures don't lie.

    Now the good news, they doubled the number of seats from before. But the Greens trebled theirs. See what I did.

    you can make things look good, on the surface, but the underlying facts sometimes reveal something very different.
    Ha ha ha, indeed you can.

    Im not really sure what point you are arguing though?

    I originally said more people voted tory than for any other party in the UK - i.e. they are our UK govt.

    My point was, they must be doing something right. As your facts above show, doubling their seats at holyrood, in a country where they have previously been toxic, would i think, back that up.

    I get many on here dont like them (althougj as i said earlier, i find the visceral hatred puzzling) but obviously many do.

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Sorry mate, refuse to click on link to that rag.

    I normally don't link to the Record, however, the lass covers it very well imo.


    Search "RAPE CLAUSE", and you'll soon find out what the Tory party are all about.

  21. #50
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ha ha ha, indeed you can.

    Im not really sure what point you are arguing though?

    I originally said more people voted tory than for any other party in the UK - i.e. they are our UK govt.

    My point was, they must be doing something right. As your facts above show, doubling their seats at holyrood, in a country where they have previously been toxic, would i think, back that up.

    I get many on here dont like them (althougj as i said earlier, i find the visceral hatred puzzling) but obviously many do.

    Which has already been proved wrong. No matter how often you repeat it, it is still not true.

    Here are some facts.

    UK electorate in 2015 = 44.7million

    Conservative votes in 2015 = 11.3milion

    So 25% of the electorate voted Conservative.

    37% votes cast for Conservatives resulted in 51% seats

    61% of votes cast for other parties resulted in 49% seats

    Now that is worth a WOW.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  22. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Which has already been proved wrong. No matter how often you repeat it, it is still not true.

    Here are some facts.

    UK electorate in 2015 = 44.7million

    Conservative votes in 2015 = 11.3milion

    So 25% of the electorate voted Conservative.

    37% votes cast for Conservatives resulted in 51% seats

    61% of votes cast for other parties resulted in 49% seats

    Now that is worth a WOW.
    I said more people voted tory than for any other party.

    What you are trying to prove (i think) is that i said they won more than all other parties combined. I dont think i have ever said that, becaise im not stupid amd i know that's not true.

    So in your big book of highly selective facts, which other party got more votes than the tories?
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 06-04-2017 at 03:32 PM.

  23. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I normally don't link to the Record, however, the lass covers it very well imo.


    Search "RAPE CLAUSE", and you'll soon find out what the Tory party are all about.
    Ok, read it in the guardian.

    So what is your issue with that?

    That they have to prove rape occurred, or how they have to prove rape occurred, or that there is any exemption at all?

  24. #53
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Have you ever considered thatnthe majority vote for them because they are right?
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ok, you got me on a technical point.

    Perhaps why they are the most populat party nationwide, and sdcond most popular in Scotland.
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I said more people voted tory than for any other party.

    What you are trying to prove (i think) is that i said they won more than all other parties combined. I dont think i have ever said that, becaise im not stupid amd i know that's not true.

    So in your big book of highly selective facts, which other party got more votes than the tories?
    .
    Last edited by Golden Fleece; 06-04-2017 at 03:42 PM.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    Interesting points. It strikes me that none of the posts have specific policies that attract posters to the Tories or any other party. A lot seem to be voting anti the party they can't stand.

    As I get older I do see that what your politics are does not make you a nice or good person. I worked in the Scottish Parliament for a bit and Tommy Sheridan treated the civil servants like something on the sole of his shoe whereas Lord James Douglas Hamilton was a really nice guy (although a bit 'Tim Nice-but-Dim' at times).

    The Tories social policies mean I could never vote for them though. The stopping of benefits for a third child is actually the complete opposite of what should be happening if you are planning to curb immigration and have an aging population. I'm with those who would like to see a new realignment of political parties post-independence with the chance of progressive left of centre ideas.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

  26. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    .
    You are a desperado.

    I corrected the 'majority' comment ages ago, after allmodcons had pointed it out.

    So will you engage with the main point, or continue to try and prove something you know to be true wrong, on a technicality?

    Edit - it was YOU i corrected myself to!

    The fact you will go to such weird lengths to try and make some technical point is actually quite instructive, going back to the original post.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 06-04-2017 at 03:49 PM.

  27. #56
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    I voted Conservative as a protest vote against the SNP.

    But for me I don't want big government so I will more than likely vote Conservative in the coming Elections in May. I like Ruth Davidson and what she has to say.

  28. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    I voted Conservative as a protest vote against the SNP.

    But for me I don't want big government so I will more than likely vote Conservative in the coming Elections in May. I like Ruth Davidson and what she has to say.
    That's a valid point...if you don't want big government and believe that more government and more tax is not the answer to our ills then there is little or no choice.

    No choice really as the Tories have proven inept at shrinking the state or its influence and Gideon in particular loved to meddle and fiddle (and not just with himself )

  29. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    That's a valid point...if you don't want big government and believe that more government and more tax is not the answer to our ills then there is little or no choice.

    No choice really as the Tories have proven inept at shrinking the state or its influence and Gideon in particular loved to meddle and fiddle (and not just with himself )
    Probably one of the main reasons in voting to leave the EU. Why do we need all this government in our lives. For me the EU is the gravy train to end all gravy trains, the money wasted or spent it depends how you see it - On politicians and their salaries and perks is just sickening. I can never understand people who seem to support a political party like its their football team, or an ideology before whats good for the people.

    At one point we had EU, UK & Scottish Parliaments deciding on policy. That to me is too much government, too much tax payers money being spent on government, lavish lavish government.

    I just dont agree with taxing the middle classes to pay for the poor, if people have made sacrifices in life to work hard and earn good money then they should be allowed to keep it for them and their family.

    I think a new kind of socialism is required where peoples time is taxed, like community service that everyone has to do, rich included, help thy neighbour kind of thing, this idea needs a lot of work i know lol

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ok, read it in the guardian.

    So what is your issue with that?

    That they have to prove rape occurred, or how they have to prove rape occurred, or that there is any exemption at all?
    Common decency is a good place to start.

  31. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4 View Post
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    There is more chance of me signing for Hibs, scoring the winner in the champions league final then nailing Mila Kunis on a rocket to mars than Davidson becoming the next first minister
    ...or of Donald Trump being elected US President?

    I'm not saying it's going to happen but 2021 is a long way off and few would probably have bet on Davidson's party pushing Labour into third place in last year's Scottish Parliamentary elections. She's done a good job so far as leader and as well as providing a strong pro-UK voice for those who have no wish for indyref2 (in comparison to Labour's muddled approach to the matter) her everyday demeanour and 'non posh' Buckhaven High education has probably attracted a number of voters who would not previously have voted Tory.

    Anyway, the odds were there for anyone to see:

    https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/b...ter/223105584/

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/unc...evealed-today/

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