Stubbs speaks

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Hibs legend.

He played a huge part in dragging this club off it's erse and getting it back on it's feet. Had LD got the wrong manager I daresay she wouldn't be viewed so favourably bit she didn't, she got Stubbs. Of course it's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses but on the whole he did a decent job at Hibs and left a good core for Neil Lennon to inherit, and of course he won the Scottish Cup. The fact he is big enough to admit he made a mistake rather than blame everyone else as others have done makes me respect him even more.

Finally it's piss poor some people get their kicks from posting gossip and rumour about a bona fide Hibs legend.

Its also easy to forget what a low ebb we were at, anf how much work the squad needed.

I remembet recently seeing the hibs team for his first gane against the huns in rhs challenge cup - he carried out major surgery over that first few months.

Absolute legend and sould definitely welcome him back as manager in the future.

[wookie70]

It may well be a piece to get Stubbs name in the paper but I really enjoyed the way he describes his time at Hibs. He might not have got promotion but we started at the lowest point imaginable and he signed some very good players. He is a class act and is, along with Dempster, a massive part of where we are now. Lennon has kept that going in a different way and we must capitalise by getting promoted and buying well to have a good first season back whre we belong. The potential is huge at the moment and we have to make sure it is realised.

[The Leith Dutch]

You could argue that Rotherham was a poor choice but I think he did the right thing leaving Hibs.

From his perspective very difficult to see where he could go with us managerially after delivering the Scottish Cup.

Promotion (and looking at this season that's no gimme) was a minimum not to tarnish his reputation somewhat.
To actually enhance his CV he'd need to win more trophys and have us up at the business end of the SPL.

None of the above is impossible but it would be a great achievement and to give it a go he'd have to put on the line his reputation in delivering us the holy ****ing grail.

I can see why he left and for May last year we'll pretty much always think of him as a legend.
If someone offered me the chance to be thought of as a legend by a great club I'd snap their hand off.

[Winston Ingram]

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Are goals scored compared the league winners in both Stubbs seasons was poor and we averaged less than 2 goals per game.

2014/15
Hearts - 96 goals (+70 GD)
Hibs - 69 goals (+30 GD)
Difference of 0.75 GPG

2015/16
Rangers - 88 goals (+54 GD)
Hibs - 59 goals (+25 GD)
Difference of 0.81 GPG

He wasn't a good manager in this league. I really hard to argue otherwise.

He was a superb cup manager and that is also equally hard to argue otherwise.

[heretoday]

His choice of Rotherham was a poor one but made in haste for his own reasons. He'll be back in Scotland one day I'm sure. His reputation is still good up here.

[bigwheel]

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He wasn't a good manager in this league. I really hard to argue otherwise.

He was a superb cup manager and that is also equally hard to argue otherwise.

Absolutely nonesense. He built his first Year squad from nothing. Did very well as an impressive Hearts set of results ran away with the league

Had one of our longest ever unbeaten run in the second year. Including two cups finals. If it wasn't for mad refereeing we would have been in the play off final. In a season where rangers got their act together to win the league

How you can claim he wasn't a good league manager doesn't compute to me

[Swedish hibee]

I'll love him forever. He made a real dream come true.

[Ozyhibby]

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Absolutely nonesense. He built his first Year squad from nothing. Did very well as an impressive Hearts set of results ran away with the league

Had one of our longest ever unbeaten run in the second year. Including two cups finals. If it wasn't for mad refereeing we would have been in the play off final. In a season where rangers got their act together to win the league

How you can claim he wasn't a good league manager doesn't compute to me

Finishing behind Falkirk for the first time in 45 years is not good.


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[Winston Ingram]

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Absolutely nonesense. He built his first Year squad from nothing. Did very well as an impressive Hearts set of results ran away with the league

Had one of our longest ever unbeaten run in the second year. Including two cups finals. If it wasn't for mad refereeing we would have been in the play off final. In a season where rangers got their act together to win the league

How you can claim he wasn't a good league manager doesn't compute to me

Very easy. He took us to our lowest league position in my lifetime with playing in an easier league than the the season before.

The first season we played in this league he couldn't work out a way to break down the diddy teams who had no interest playing against us and continued playing a diamond formation that played right into their hands. We also struggled to defend crosses and set pieces and were absolutely fantastic at chucking in late goals against us which happened repeatedly.

So what did he do to change it 2nd year? Next to nothing. Stuck with that stupid diamond formation that the whole league had worked out and we continued to struggle to score and lose goals in the same amateur ways week after week. His inability to learn was a massive measure of his capability as a league manager.

The worst apology for his league record I hear is that 'we were tired cos of the cup runs' which is ridiculous. It's not as if we were travelling to Azerbaijan for a Europa League game, spending hours in airports and nights in hotels and then returning to play a top team at the weekend.

Bar the trip to ICT we barely travelled outside a 50 mile radius and most of the time it was against utter pish.

What people who peddle this nonsense also seem to forget is that Sevco pretty much played the same amount of games and it had no effect on them.

Stubbs stats in this league v the budget he had is very poor. In 2 years in this league, including the play offs he failed to win 33 matches. That's almost a full league season of failing to beat utter dross.

[bigwheel]

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Finishing behind Falkirk for the first time in 45 years is not good.


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That's fair. It was disappointing . But it didn't define our season . We were better than them in both play off games - didn't see out the final games and big decisions were bizarre . Perhaps out inability to see out some games was his weakest point . He was far from a perfect manager , struggled to get us out of our poor streak about this time last year - but the post had suggested he was a poor league manager - that view was too black and white for me

[Winston Ingram]

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That's fair. It was disappointing . But it didn't define our season . We were better than them in both play off games - didn't see out the final games and big decisions were bizarre . Perhaps out inability to see out some games was his weakest point . He was far from a perfect manager , struggled to get us out of our poor streak about this time last year - but the post had suggested he was a poor league manager - that view was too black and white for me

We lost the playoff games in the same way we always lost goals to Falkirk. Late & from throws or set pieces. In 2 years he never changed a single thing to deal with that and ended up winning only 2 matches against Houston out of 11.

[21.05.2016]

Stubbs is a great guy. Taking time out to visit seriously ill fans and donating his winners medal to charity shows you the class the man has, an absolute gentleman.

He made a mistake but hindsight is a wonderful thing eh, he made the decision based on what he felt was best at the time. He will always be a legend and will always be given a very warm welcome should he ever decide to come along to ER in the future. This guy gave me the greatest day of my life, I will never be able to thank him enough.

[bigwheel]

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We lost the playoff games in the same way we always lost goals to Falkirk. Late & from throws or set pieces. In 2 years he never changed a single thing to deal with that and ended up winning only 2 matches against Houston out of 11.

Ah there you go again - one side of a debate

Yes we did lose kate goals - but we also had two massive wrong decisions against us - you choose to ignore them

In your other post you talk about lowest league position - yet you ignore our second position above Rangers from an almost start up position when he got the job

You talk about our lost points and ignore the longest unbeaten run , with almost all wins in many many years .

I'm not saying he was perfect , but your position of poor league manager lacks any real balance of view .

[blackpoolhibs]

It's been said many times before about his team, they failed to get up out this league twice, and finished behind Falkirk in the 2nd tier of aa really poor league.

Yet he had us playing some good stuff AT TIMES, and against teams from the league above and sevco and mini sevco we won more than we lost.

Also winning that cup will always make him along with his backroom staff and the players legends for ever.

I personally wanted him gone, i did not feel he was the right man to get us up, but in saying that, i'd not be averse to him being our manager again in the future if we ever get out of this bloody league.

He can clearly spot a good player, and does like the game played on the deck with a bit of flair.

The football this season bar the odd game has been awful, but surely to god with the teams much weaker andi include us in that, we will go up.

If Lennon stays next season, he needs to put a team on the park that will be better than its been this season.

The funny thing is i'd have been more confident in Stubbs doing that than Lennon, but no confidence in Stubbs taking us up, where i did feel Lennon would?

[Smartie]

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It's been said many times before about his team, they failed to get up out this league twice, and finished behind Falkirk in the 2nd tier of aa really poor league.

Yet he had us playing some good stuff AT TIMES, and against teams from the league above and sevco and mini sevco we won more than we lost.

Also winning that cup will always make him along with his backroom staff and the players legends for ever.

I personally wanted him gone, i did not feel he was the right man to get us up, but in saying that, i'd not be averse to him being our manager again in the future if we ever get out of this bloody league.

He can clearly spot a good player, and does like the game played on the deck with a bit of flair.

The football this season bar the odd game has been awful, but surely to god with the teams much weaker andi include us in that, we will go up.

If Lennon stays next season, he needs to put a team on the park that will be better than its been this season.

The funny thing is i'd have been more confident in Stubbs doing that than Lennon, but no confidence in Stubbs taking us up, where i did feel Lennon would?

We'd had 2 years of watching Championship football so had a fair idea what it took to get promoted.

I think Lennon is a realist whereas Stubbs was a bit of an idealist. We've kept the back door shut under Lennon and these frustrating draws may actually turn out to be the points that get us over the line (games that we'd have lost before).

I actually thought that Stubbs was superb for 18 months, but he had a bad final transfer window and a poor second half (er, Scottish cup win apart) to his second season with some awful form on the road.

I do think that Stubbs would also have got us up this year though. All we had to do was make sure we weren't as bad as the other teams in the league (instead of matching a Rangers or a Hearts) and I think he'd have managed that comfortably.

I'd actually choose Lennon or Stubbs over practically all the managers we've had in my time watching Hibs. Only McLeish or Mowbray would probably be on a level with those two.

[Winston Ingram]

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Ah there you go again - one side of a debate

Yes we did lose kate goals - but we also had two massive wrong decisions against us - you choose to ignore them

In your other post you talk about lowest league position - yet you ignore our second position above Rangers from an almost start up position when he got the job

You talk about our lost points and ignore the longest unbeaten run , with almost all wins in many many years .

I'm not saying he was perfect , but your position of poor league manager lacks any real balance of view .

I'm not disputing that but your trying to put it down to luck which is bollocks.

In 11 games v them he failed to win 9 losing 5, all in the same manner. Once is a chance, twice a coincidence 3 is a pattern. In the 9 games we failed to beat them they were exactly the same.

We did finish above a rotten Sevco side. The same rotten Sevco side that pumped us out the playoffs once they got someone in charge who knew what they were doing.

We did have a big unbeaten run last year but we also had a hu*****us not winning run when we disappeared out the championship race by February and collapsed to a level that saw us finish 3rd.

You seem to be forgetting that the teams we face in this league are rotten. A winning run like should've have been the norm in this league not just a 12 week period to reflect on.

[Eaststand]

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Hibs legend.

He played a huge part in dragging this club off it's erse and getting it back on it's feet. Had LD got the wrong manager I daresay she wouldn't be viewed so favourably bit she didn't, she got Stubbs. Of course it's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses but on the whole he did a decent job at Hibs and left a good core for Neil Lennon to inherit, and of course he won the Scottish Cup. The fact he is big enough to admit he made a mistake rather than blame everyone else as others have done makes me respect him even more.

Finally it's piss poor some people get their kicks from posting gossip and rumour about a bona fide Hibs legend.

A good post PB and especially your last paragraph. Stubbs is a class act who deserves our respect. Some of the posters on here should be ashamed of their sly digs and cheap comments

GGTTH

[Ozyhibby]

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A good post PB and especially your last paragraph. Stubbs is a class act who deserves our respect. Some of the posters on here should be ashamed of their sly digs and cheap comments

GGTTH

I don't think anyone is having sly digs. Stubbs place in Hibs history is secure with the cup win. There is just a recognition that he failed in the league. I don't think there is any animosity towards him at all.


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[jacomo]

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Puff piece with very little insight. I wish our press would ask more questions on tactical matters etc.


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Really??

Debates about the diamond etc etc have been done to death. What's the point? Stubbs had 2 seasons at Hibs, it's now part of our history.

Much more interesting is the affection that Stubbs holds for our club to this day. There is a lasting bond there.

I hope to meet the guy someday, and I certainly won't be talking about tactics. Instead I'll thank him for what he did for our club - he's a hero.

[Eyrie]

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Really??

Debates about the diamond etc etc have been done to death. What's the point? Stubbs had 2 seasons at Hibs, it's now part of our history.

Much more interesting is the affection that Stubbs holds for our club to this day. There is a lasting bond there.

I hope to meet the guy someday, and I certainly won't be talking about tactics. Instead I'll thank him for what he did for our club - he's a hero.

Isn't that the crux of the debate though?

Does the Cup win forgive all sins, or does the failure to recognise and fix tactical failings mean that it was right from Hibs perspective for Stubbs to move on?

I'll always be grateful to him for the Cup win, but for me it's the latter.

[Winston Ingram]

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Isn't that the crux of the debate though?

Does the Cup win forgive all sins, or does the failure to recognise and fix tactical failings mean that it was right from Hibs perspective for Stubbs to move on?

I'll always be grateful to him for the Cup win, but for me it's the latter.

This

[Jack Hackett]

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I'm not disputing that but your trying to put it down to luck which is bollocks.

In 11 games v them he failed to win 9 losing 5, all in the same manner. Once is a chance, twice a coincidence 3 is a pattern. In the 9 games we failed to beat them they were exactly the same.

We did finish above a rotten Sevco side. The same rotten Sevco side that pumped us out the playoffs once they got someone in charge who knew what they were doing.

We did have a big unbeaten run last year but we also had a hu*****us not winning run when we disappeared out the championship race by February and collapsed to a level that saw us finish 3rd.

You seem to be forgetting that the teams we face in this league are rotten. A winning run like should've have been the norm in this league not just a 12 week period to reflect on.

Quite right....The ref in the first leg knew exactly what he was doing.

[essexhibee]

If only Lennon had an eye for a player like Stubbs did. Some signings he made.

[bigwheel]

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I'm not disputing that but your trying to put it down to luck which is bollocks.

In 11 games v them he failed to win 9 losing 5, all in the same manner. Once is a chance, twice a coincidence 3 is a pattern. In the 9 games we failed to beat them they were exactly the same.

We did finish above a rotten Sevco side. The same rotten Sevco side that pumped us out the playoffs once they got someone in charge who knew what they were doing.

We did have a big unbeaten run last year but we also had a hu*****us not winning run when we disappeared out the championship race by February and collapsed to a level that saw us finish 3rd.

You seem to be forgetting that the teams we face in this league are rotten. A winning run like should've have been the norm in this league not just a 12 week period to reflect on.

They are not rotten - you have simply
Decided that we should be "too good" for this league .

Stubbs is so poor in your view - yet it's highly Likely his teams secured more
Points in this league than Lennon's will - even though Lennon is likely to win the league

And my point is not about luck , it's about the fine margin between success and failure - a nuance that you seem to ignore completely

[OxoHibby]

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Hibs legend.

He played a huge part in dragging this club off it's erse and getting it back on it's feet. Had LD got the wrong manager I daresay she wouldn't be viewed so favourably bit she didn't, she got Stubbs. Of course it's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses but on the whole he did a decent job at Hibs and left a good core for Neil Lennon to inherit, and of course he won the Scottish Cup. The fact he is big enough to admit he made a mistake rather than blame everyone else as others have done makes me respect him even more.

Finally it's piss poor some people get their kicks from posting gossip and rumour about a bona fide Hibs legend.

This shouldn't be under estimated. The club was on its erse and despite the resources could have got worse. It needed a major turn around. It has taken a while but stubbs played his part. Also love the last para in the article

[calumhibee1]

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Hibs legend.

He played a huge part in dragging this club off it's erse and getting it back on it's feet. Had LD got the wrong manager I daresay she wouldn't be viewed so favourably bit she didn't, she got Stubbs. Of course it's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses but on the whole he did a decent job at Hibs and left a good core for Neil Lennon to inherit, and of course he won the Scottish Cup. The fact he is big enough to admit he made a mistake rather than blame everyone else as others have done makes me respect him even more.

Finally it's piss poor some people get their kicks from posting gossip and rumour about a bona fide Hibs legend.

Even before the Scottish cup win I'd say he was probably my favourite Hibs manager in my lifetime. After that day in May I will love that man for the rest of my life.

[Winston Ingram]

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They are not rotten - you have simply
Decided that we should be "too good" for this league .

Stubbs is so poor in your view - yet it's highly Likely his teams secured more
Points in this league than Lennon's will - even though Lennon is likely to win the league

And my point is not about luck , it's about the fine margin between success and failure - a nuance that you seem to ignore completely

Who aren't rotten? What's the difference between fine lines & luck?

I haven't decided anything but I know with our budget last & the prev season we shouldn't have struggled against teams like we did. You could allow him the 1st season but the 2nd in easier league? No chance.

Continually repeating the same mistakes is not fine lines, it's insanity.

It amazing how Hearts & Sevco managed to avoid these 'fine lines' though when they were romping away with this league...

[Kato]

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Who aren't rotten? What's the difference between fine lines & luck?

I haven't decided anything but I know with our budget last & the prev season we shouldn't have struggled against teams like we did. You could allow him the 1st season but the 2nd in easier league? No chance.

Continually repeating the same mistakes is not fine lines, it's insanity.

It amazing how Hearts & Sevco managed to avoid these 'fine lines' though when they were romping away with this league...

Is there a fine line between getting >20 penalties a season and 3 or 4?

[Speedy]

Stubbs and everyone else involved in the cup win will be remembered as Hibs legends.

However, I wasn't convinced he was the answer and many would have been happy with him sacked if we lost the final. He left at the perfect time.

[Winston Ingram]

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Is there a fine line between getting >20 penalties a season and 3 or 4?

Exactly. If you've not got any wide players who can beat a man, it's going to severely limit your chances of getting any.