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    Preserving cultural identity vs patriotism vs racism

    Reading in the comments to section in today's evening news article about proposed sdl march/gathering and also a March celebrating a sikh festival, it raises the question, in my mind anyway, what is the difference between patriotism, racism, and cultural preservation?


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    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    Reading in the comments to section in today's evening news article about proposed sdl march/gathering and also a March celebrating a sikh festival, it raises the question, in my mind anyway, what is the difference between patriotism, racism, and cultural preservation?
    It's all about lines. There's a thin line between patriotism and racism.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    It's all about lines. There's a thin line between patriotism and racism.
    Certainly seems that way reading the article and comments. I suppose it also depends who is drawing the line.

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    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    If your patriotism manifests itself in delusions of superiority over other countries or races then its probably at the very least xenophobia .... if your patriotism is defined not by how much you love your country, but by how much you hate somebody else's then you aren't a patriot, you are an idiot. IMO anyway.

    As for culture .... Its a minefield .... the prime and obvious example isn't confined to nationality but religious practice .... certainly in modern times to cover your face in western culture is seen as at best rude at worst something sinister, but on the other hand some strict muslim cultures insist that women cover their faces .... whether it should be allowed in this country is an argument I'm certainly not going to get involved in.

    I suppose the basic rule to follow in a country you have settled in or are visiting is to abide by the laws of that country ..... in certain cultures FMG is, if not strictly legal, at the very least accepted and a blind eye is turned, in the vast majority of countries its a vicious inhuman assault and a breach of human rights ...... nobody from a culture where the practice is commonplace can hope to make a case cultural or otherwise to justify doing it in any country that views the practice the way we do and if they want to still do it then don't come here. The same goes for so called 'honour' killings ... if ever a term was so inappropriately applied to a practice it was that one and if sending you to jail for 20 years for strangling your sister hurts your cultural feelings ... tough!

    In a less extreme example Sikhs carry a dagger as part of ceremonial dress which is very important to them from a religious and cultural viewpoint .... however Scots also carry a knife as part of our national dress, you cant tuck a knife into your sock any more if you are wearing a kilt and that law has also been applied to the Sikh dagger .... that's a shame in both cases, but perhaps not surprising.

    All that aside, practically the first thing English folk used to do when they became ex pats was to form a Cricket club .... nae harm in that sort of thing

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    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    however Scots also carry a knife as part of our national dress, you cant tuck a knife into your sock any more if you are wearing a kilt and that law has also been applied to the Sikh dagger ..
    WHIT? This is news to me, I still wear my black knife when wearing my kilt and was planning to do so next month at a wedding.
    Is it banned right enough or is this some sort of Daily Mail over reaction?

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    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    If your patriotism manifests itself in delusions of superiority over other countries or races then its probably at the very least xenophobia .... if your patriotism is defined not by how much you love your country, but by how much you hate somebody else's then you aren't a patriot, you are an idiot. IMO anyway.

    As for culture .... Its a minefield .... the prime and obvious example isn't confined to nationality but religious practice .... certainly in modern times to cover your face in western culture is seen as at best rude at worst something sinister, but on the other hand some strict muslim cultures insist that women cover their faces .... whether it should be allowed in this country is an argument I'm certainly not going to get involved in.

    I suppose the basic rule to follow in a country you have settled in or are visiting is to abide by the laws of that country ..... in certain cultures FMG is, if not strictly legal, at the very least accepted and a blind eye is turned, in the vast majority of countries its a vicious inhuman assault and a breach of human rights ...... nobody from a culture where the practice is commonplace can hope to make a case cultural or otherwise to justify doing it in any country that views the practice the way we do and if they want to still do it then don't come here. The same goes for so called 'honour' killings ... if ever a term was so inappropriately applied to a practice it was that one and if sending you to jail for 20 years for strangling your sister hurts your cultural feelings ... tough!

    In a less extreme example Sikhs carry a dagger as part of ceremonial dress which is very important to them from a religious and cultural viewpoint .... however Scots also carry a knife as part of our national dress, you cant tuck a knife into your sock any more if you are wearing a kilt and that law has also been applied to the Sikh dagger .... that's a shame in both cases, but perhaps not surprising.

    All that aside, practically the first thing English folk used to do when they became ex pats was to form a Cricket club .... nae harm in that sort of thing
    Or boozy immigrants who won't integrate

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    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    WHIT? This is news to me, I still wear my black knife when wearing my kilt and was planning to do so next month at a wedding.
    Is it banned right enough or is this some sort of Daily Mail over reaction?
    You won't need your skean dhu. If there's any pagger, there'll be serrated steak knives at the meal.

  9. #8
    Testimonial Due Lancs Harp's Avatar
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    Back in the 80s casuals carried stanley knives as part of their ceremonial dress.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    If your patriotism manifests itself in delusions of superiority over other countries or races then its probably at the very least xenophobia .... if your patriotism is defined not by how much you love your country, but by how much you hate somebody else's then you aren't a patriot, you are an idiot. IMO anyway.

    As for culture .... Its a minefield .... the prime and obvious example isn't confined to nationality but religious practice .... certainly in modern times to cover your face in western culture is seen as at best rude at worst something sinister, but on the other hand some strict muslim cultures insist that women cover their faces .... whether it should be allowed in this country is an argument I'm certainly not going to get involved in.

    I suppose the basic rule to follow in a country you have settled in or are visiting is to abide by the laws of that country ..... in certain cultures FMG is, if not strictly legal, at the very least accepted and a blind eye is turned, in the vast majority of countries its a vicious inhuman assault and a breach of human rights ...... nobody from a culture where the practice is commonplace can hope to make a case cultural or otherwise to justify doing it in any country that views the practice the way we do and if they want to still do it then don't come here. The same goes for so called 'honour' killings ... if ever a term was so inappropriately applied to a practice it was that one and if sending you to jail for 20 years for strangling your sister hurts your cultural feelings ... tough!

    In a less extreme example Sikhs carry a dagger as part of ceremonial dress which is very important to them from a religious and cultural viewpoint .... however Scots also carry a knife as part of our national dress, you cant tuck a knife into your sock any more if you are wearing a kilt and that law has also been applied to the Sikh dagger .... that's a shame in both cases, but perhaps not surprising.

    All that aside, practically the first thing English folk used to do when they became ex pats was to form a Cricket club .... nae harm in that sort of thing

    A few interesting points there. Not sure I am any more convinced that it isn't something we make up as we go along.

  11. #10
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    A few interesting points there. Not sure I am any more convinced that it isn't something we make up as we go along.
    I'm pretty convinced you are right .... like I said its a minefield

  12. #11
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    WHIT? This is news to me, I still wear my black knife when wearing my kilt and was planning to do so next month at a wedding.
    Is it banned right enough or is this some sort of Daily Mail over reaction?
    Pretty sure I'm right mate ..... cant say that 100% but I'm sure if you hire a kilt these days if they do give you a sgian dubh its a kid on one without a proper blade.

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    @hibs.net private member CapitalGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Pretty sure I'm right mate ..... cant say that 100% but I'm sure if you hire a kilt these days if they do give you a sgian dubh its a kid on one without a proper blade.
    That's because the hilt hire companies do not want to be responsible for lending out a pontentailly dangerous weapon. You can still purchase a real one from kilt shops.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    I'm pretty convinced you are right .... like I said its a minefield
    😁

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Pretty sure I'm right mate ..... cant say that 100% but I'm sure if you hire a kilt these days if they do give you a sgian dubh its a kid on one without a proper blade.
    I think the rules re knives is if you have a valid reason for having a knife in your possession it is OK. Eg, a chef on his way from work. Not sure if wearing a kilt counts as a valid reason or not.

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