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View Poll Results: Should Scotland be an independent country?

Voters
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  • Yes this time, Yes last time

    75 68.81%
  • Yes this time, was No last time

    6 5.50%
  • No this time, No last time

    23 21.10%
  • No this time, was Yes last time

    5 4.59%
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Results 151 to 167 of 167
  1. #151
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    my personal circumstances have changed . last time i didnt have much to lose , iv just bought my 1st house and about to start a family and would appreciate some sort of stability at this time . also my yes vote last time was largely because i felt north sea oil would have made us fairly prosperous , now its not looking so much like that will be the case
    Oil prices are cyclical, they will rise again once Saudi cuts production.
    Not sure stability is there mate. Brexit will be a hum-dinger.

    Thanks for the honest response. Good luck with the family.

    GGTTH

    J


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  3. #152
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    I expect a big turnout but I'd take that poll with a pinch of salt.
    Absolutely. More a pre nostalgic post that we can look back to and feel the love from our English cousins 😂
    Space to let

  4. #153
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    my personal circumstances have changed . last time i didnt have much to lose , iv just bought my 1st house and about to start a family and would appreciate some sort of stability at this time . also my yes vote last time was largely because i felt north sea oil would have made us fairly prosperous , now its not looking so much like that will be the case
    There are fair few London economists and political commentators suggestiing the UK after Brexit will be "dire". Some sort of 'armageddon' for the UK scenario until 2030 at best.

    Your children will be teenagers before they can expect a quality of life we had some years ago in post Brexit Britain.

    "" their words.

    ''my word using a fitba analogy 😊
    Last edited by Jack; 16-03-2017 at 10:39 PM.

  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    Oil prices are cyclical, they will rise again once Saudi cuts production.
    Not sure stability is there mate. Brexit will be a hum-dinger.

    Thanks for the honest response. Good luck with the family.

    GGTTH

    J
    Brave assumption re oil.

    Saudis already rowing back on their cuts

    US shale already ramping up production thanks to better tech even in the new normal of low oil prices

    Technology advances significantly reducing medium to long term oil needs, esp for transport.

    In short the prospect of $100 per barrel any time soon is a very remote one.

    And anyway England is much more likely to have an oil boom compared to Scotland...in a rather unexpected turn of events there is a strong prospect that the oil fields around Gatwick known as the Kimmeridge could provide a huge boost to the UK's energy sector.

  6. #155
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to know how many folk would like the majority of England to join us and leave the SE on their ownsome.
    Me for one.

  7. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    my personal circumstances have changed . last time i didnt have much to lose , iv just bought my 1st house and about to start a family and would appreciate some sort of stability at this time . also my yes vote last time was largely because i felt north sea oil would have made us fairly prosperous , now its not looking so much like that will be the case
    Unfortunately brexit shattered the bedrock of the UK and the consequences are a valid but slightly premature attempt by the SNP who have some merit in arguing for a second indy ref. However, it appeared clumsy for Nicola to undermine what are very important negotiations with the EU as it was after all a UK wide vote. I think Nicola was bounced into the conference declaring intention as I had outlined previously she may well have been under pressure from others within her party to go down that route so soon.

    A more mature approach would have been to hold off and criticise the Tories at every junction of the negotiations which may end acrimoniously then call for it taking the ordinary Scots folk with them.

    Looking in neutrally it appears May is in control of the situation by declaring a pause to the calls for indy ref 2 until the negotiations are completed with the SNP appearing as wreckers instead of mature debaters.

    I would have approached the situation in a more measured output and appeared as a party willing to salvage tory negligence after EU negotiations were completed whatever shape they are and claim the UK is no longer fit for purpose.

    I think the timing and approach is off and looks clumsy by the SNP at this time.

    glory glory
    Last edited by northstandhibby; 17-03-2017 at 07:02 AM.

  8. #157
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    There are fair few London economists and political commentators suggestiing the UK after Brexit will be "dire". Some sort of 'armageddon' for the UK scenario until 2030 at best.

    Your children will be teenagers before they can expect a quality of life we had some years ago in post Brexit Britain.

    "" their words.

    ''my word using a fitba analogy 😊
    Is that the same people that said if we voted to leave the EU we would have an immediate budget with tax rises and spending cuts, and growth would plummet. They were wrong.

    I voted to remain but I think it shows nobody has a clue what will happen post Brexit.

  9. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Is that the same people that said if we voted to leave the EU we would have an immediate budget with tax rises and spending cuts, and growth would plummet. They were wrong.

    I voted to remain but I think it shows nobody has a clue what will happen post Brexit.
    Not really true as it has always depended on what type of brexit occurs. The negotiations are key to what shape the outcome will take.

    glory glory

  10. #159
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=johnbc70;4980842]Is that the same people that said if we voted to leave the EU we would have an immediate budget with tax rises and spending cuts, and growth would plummet. They were wrong.

    [B]I voted to remain but I think it shows nobody has a clue what will happen post Brexit.[QUOTE]

    David Davis certainly doesn't, and he's the guy in charge of it "Leading for Britain".

    This what he said yesterday.

    * Said it was “probably right” that holidaying Britons will lose EHIC cards, which provide free or subsidized healthcare across the EU, but added: “I have not looked at that one.”

    * Admitted he did not know the implications of leaving with no deal on the transfer of personal data, which is crucial issue for the booming tech industry.

    * Acknowledged UK producers of dairy and meat would face tariffs of up to 40 per cent under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules – “the numbers in agriculture are high”.

    * Described the argument that the UK could walk away without paying a penny to the EU, if no deal is reached, as “interesting” – “a very good start in this exercise”.

    * Said he expected Northern Ireland would end up with a “very light border, not a hard border” with the Republic.

    * Said he “assumed” the ‘Open Skies’ agreement – which has slashed airfares across the EU - will be lost, although he would fight for a successor.

    * Confirmed financial services firms are poised to lose ‘passporting rights’ to trade in the EU, saying: “I would expect that to be the case, that’s an area of uncertainty.”

    When pushed about an economic assessment, he said this..."You don't need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment".

    We're safe in the Tories hands though eh. Have a wee look at the video from Fiasal islam, it's embarrassing. The Europeans will be bricking it.

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...61838741696513
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 17-03-2017 at 08:50 AM.

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    I think SNP are alive to that. Discussion goes they'll seek single market and EFTA/EEA.
    John Nicholson said last night that the SNP wants full EU membership.
    The SNP in all honestly have messed up, full EU, EFTA, etc etc, they just want Independence and they'll say anything to get it, I think some Tate starting to see through it.

  12. #161
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheReg! View Post
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    John Nicholson said last night that the SNP wants full EU membership.
    The SNP in all honestly have messed up, full EU, EFTA, etc etc, they just want Independence and they'll say anything to get it, I think some Tate starting to see through it.
    How have they messed up?

    If and when Indyref 2 is officially launched, the Scottish Government will publish their proposals for iScotland. Scotland will have no problem entering either EFTA or the EU.

    Scotland is far from being the economic basket case that some unionists would have us believe - even ignoring the billions of barrels of oil reserves (which are apparently a handicap - aye right!).

    I have no doubt that this time round, the Yes campaign will be a lot more clear cut and a second "project fear" simply won't work as, unlike the first time round, a non EU rUK will have very little influence on how an iScotland will set itself out.

    It doesn't stop them trying though - I've already seen stuff about pensions, NATO, etc. - bring it on!

  13. #162
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    More stuff on GERS from Richard Murphy. https://t.co/SySWG00sP4

    As GERS shows, Scotland has almost no real data on its economy. Whether its tax income, savings, investment, imports, exports and much else, what I am saying (and what it seems Margaret Cuthbert is saying) is that there is simply no data available for Scotland. And that means that the decision has been taken by those who might collect this data which for these purposes would all seem to be London based agencies not to collect it.

  14. #163
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheReg! View Post
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    It's pure tunnel vision, selfish and not very well thought through mate. The biggest thing for me however is the 400,000 yes voters who voted to leave the EU, do you think that they will want to leave one Union for another? Even if it was just half of that number, it's a huge swing needed to get independence.
    In a way I get what you're saying.... But (there's always a but ) people who in their hearts want self government for Scotland could still vote for independence and in the following governmental elections vote for the party that best reflects their views on Europe.

    In a funny way I think if Scotland did get independence we'd see a resurgence of Labour and Tory fortunes in Scotland.
    Last edited by Just Alf; 17-03-2017 at 10:01 AM.
    "The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
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  15. #164
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    Oil prices are cyclical, they will rise again once Saudi cuts production.
    Not sure stability is there mate. Brexit will be a hum-dinger.

    Thanks for the honest response. Good luck with the family.

    GGTTH

    J
    Not as simple as that anymore - Saudia Arabia has long since cut back on oil production (November 2016), in fact it recently announced that it may consider increasing production again. The concept of reducing output has failed to achieve the desired increase in oil prices because the cutbacks from OPEC countries are simply made up for by the US increasing its levels of oil production (through, e.g. fracking) ...

  16. #165
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    I didn't get to vote in the last one, but would probably have - just - been a shade on the "No" side.

    Seeing as the next one might not be for 6 years, who knows where I'll be, but - in spite of my misgivings over the economics of Independence - I think the chance of being free of this particularly toxic brand of Tory-dom and a member of the EU (again, that's not a certainty) is a risk worth taking vs. the certainty of being part of post Brexit UK being run (into the ground) by the Tories.

    It's not a hugely appealing choice though - if Scotland was nailed on to get EU membership that would assuage my fears immensely but that's not the case.

  17. #166
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheReg!

    It's pure tunnel vision, selfish and not very well thought through mate. The biggest thing for me however is the 400,000 yes voters who voted to leave the EU, do you think that they will want to leave one Union for another? Even if it was just half of that number, it's a huge swing needed to get independence.
    We keep hearing about the yes voters that voted leave, but there were also (more?) No voters who voted to remain. What about them? Do they not get considered in any of the arguments?

    The infographic from Lord Ashcroft is interesting as it shows, proportionately, how party supporters influenced the outcome.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Golden Fleece; 17-03-2017 at 10:50 AM. Reason: infographic
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  18. #167
    First Team Breakthrough NZ Green's Avatar
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    My uneducated theory is that if we go Independent and stay in the EU, alot of international business that's based in England, particularly banking, may benefit from relocating to Scotland to make trading within the EU easier and cheaper. This is purely based on assumption but surely being out of the EU is going to make trading within Europe a bit of a pain in the ass. Scotland might be Englands gateway to get around it.

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