hibs.net Messageboard

Page 14 of 85 FirstFirst ... 412131415162464 ... LastLast
Results 391 to 420 of 2541

Thread: Indy Ref 2

  1. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The criteria were different though. Remember?
    It was a pyrrhic victory. He know's it, his beloved unelected tory PM knows it , all the unionists/British Nationalists know it. They are running scared and think that putting a block on a Scottish mandate is going to put us back in the box, where unionists think we belong.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #392
    Left by mutual consent!
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    9,490
    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Education is devolved aye? So education being cut in England, should have absolutely no effect on the budget available for education in Scotland then?
    Raise taxes then.

    Lost on a lie and your ilk know it.
    Nah, lost on fantasy economics. There is no bad bogeyman to blame I'm afraid.

  4. #393
    @hibs.net private member GlesgaeHibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,697
    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Unelected UK leader from an election rigging party tells elected Scottish leader that she doesn't have the permission to hold a referendum which she has a mandate for.

    Don't you just love UK democracy?
    She is elected though. Was elected to serve her constituency as an MP and then voted leader of the governing party by members of that party. We don't vote for a Prime Minister in the UK, we vote for constituency MPs.

  5. #394
    Left by mutual consent!
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    9,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You know fine. Those who voted no in 2014 in fear of Scotland being excluded from the EU will be having second thoughts.

    Attachment 18227
    So will those that voted no on the basis that oil would make Scotland rich, rich , rich. Remember that criteria?

  6. #395
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Unelected UK leader from an election rigging party tells elected Scottish leader that she doesn't have the permission to hold a referendum which she has a mandate for.

    Don't you just love UK democracy?
    No Theresa has said not I the time window that Nicola demanded. After Brexit has happened and we know what we are voting on then the referendum will be allowed to happen.

    This is just common sense and only a blinkered nationalist would argue otherwise.

  7. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by hibs0666 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Raise taxes then.
    Why should we raise taxes to make up for a short fall in what we recieved back from the treasury in relation to our generated revenue?

    Quote Originally Posted by hibs0666 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nah, lost on fantasy economics. There is no bad bogeyman to blame I'm afraid.
    Nothing like the fantasy economics we're getting from brexiters. 350 million pound more a week for the NHS? Where is it then?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    She is elected though. Was elected to serve her constituency as an MP and then voted leader of the governing party by members of that party. We don't vote for a Prime Minister in the UK, we vote for constituency MPs.
    Her party has no mandate in Scotland, she has no mandate in Scotland. You can try and dress it up any way you like, but the reality is, she isn't liked or supported up here and has no moral right to block a democratic mandate from the Scottish electorate.

  8. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No Theresa has said not I the time window that Nicola demanded. After Brexit has happened and we know what we are voting on then the referendum will be allowed to happen.

    This is just common sense and only a blinkered nationalist would argue otherwise.
    No, she's not wanting another referendum during brexit negotiations, because she wants to be able to use Scottish assets as a bargaining chip, while allowing us to have zero say on the matter.

    Only a blinkered unionist would argue otherwise.

  9. #398
    @hibs.net private member GlesgaeHibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,697
    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why should we raise taxes to make up for a short fall in what we recieved back from the treasury in relation to our generated revenue?



    Nothing like the fantasy economics we're getting from brexiters. 350 million pound more a week for the NHS? Where is it then?



    Her party has no mandate in Scotland, she has no mandate in Scotland. You can try and dress it up any way you like, but the reality is, she isn't liked or supported up here and has no moral right to block a democratic mandate from the Scottish electorate.
    I'm pro-Indy, and agree that she isn't well liked or supported up here. I can't stand her or the Tory party, and I hate that a party with one Scottish MP is dictating to Scotland. Unfortunately, whilst we are still in the UK the UK government does have a mandate to govern us.

  10. #399
    Left by mutual consent!
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    9,490
    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It was a pyrrhic victory. He know's it, his beloved unelected tory PM knows it , all the unionists/British Nationalists know it. They are running scared and think that putting a block on a Scottish mandate is going to put us back in the box, where unionists think we belong.
    You've taken this knock-back quite badly I see.

    It was no victory, there were only losers from the last referendum and Scotland is a worse place for having had it. Too many people just can't bear having been in the minority and it would have been the same the other way round.

    BTW May is elected to parliament. Neither UK or Scotland run elections for the top job.

  11. #400
    @hibs.net private member stantonhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Corstorphine
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,565
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You know fine. Those who voted no in 2014 in fear of Scotland being excluded from the EU will be having second thoughts.

    Attachment 18227

    The vast majority of the no voters I know did so because they didn't think the SNP' s economic argument stacked​ up.....EU never really came into it.

  12. #401
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No, she's not wanting another referendum during brexit negotiations, because she wants to be able to use Scottish assets as a bargaining chip, while allowing us to have zero say on the matter.

    Only a blinkered unionist would argue otherwise.
    Nicola Sturgeon is playing politics with her demands. Thankfully the majority of Scots see this and only people like you are upset about it. I can live with that and sure Theressa May can too. You won't see Scotland up in arms about this decision like you are, most will be quite glad of it.

  13. #402
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chippenham/Bath
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,146
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No Theresa has said not I the time window that Nicola demanded. After Brexit has happened and we know what we are voting on then the referendum will be allowed to happen.

    This is just common sense and only a blinkered nationalist would argue otherwise.
    Quite frankly the Brexit deal will be known quite soon after Article 50.

    David Davis leading the negotiations and U.K. HARD BREXIT stance is going to ensure there's a cant of a deal for the U.K.

    The mechanisms and governance of Indy2 needs to be in place to act quickly. There's a chance that Scotland could strike a deal to stay in as rUK leaves. Scotland should not lose that opportunity because May says so.

    J

  14. #403
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Quite frankly the Brexit deal will be known quite soon after Article 50.

    David Davis leading the negotiations and U.K. HARD BREXIT stance is going to ensure there's a cant of a deal for the U.K.

    The mechanisms and governance of Indy2 needs to be in place to act quickly. There's a chance that Scotland could strike a deal to stay in as rUK leaves. Scotland should not lose that opportunity because May says so.

    J
    Show me proof Scotland can stay in whilst the UK leaves? It's quite wrong of Nicola Sturgeon to demand and referendum at this time and she knows it. Anything to whip up us and them to try and get more people to back independence.

  15. #404
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Saint-Malo, Brittany
    Age
    50
    Posts
    16,088
    Quote Originally Posted by hibs0666 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So will those that voted no on the basis that oil would make Scotland rich, rich , rich. Remember that criteria?
    I've no idea, although they may understand that prices constantly fluctuate.

  16. #405
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    between a brewery & distillery
    Posts
    11,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You know fine. Those who voted no in 2014 in fear of Scotland being excluded from the EU will be having second thoughts.

    Attachment 18227
    That is one damning photograph
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  17. #406
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That is one damning photograph
    Why?

  18. #407
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've no idea, although they may understand that prices constantly fluctuate.
    Fluctuate is a little bit of an understatement in regards to the drop in oil prices is it not?

  19. #408
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chippenham/Bath
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,146
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Show me proof Scotland can stay in whilst the UK leaves? It's quite wrong of Nicola Sturgeon to demand and referendum at this time and she knows it. Anything to whip up us and them to try and get more people to back independence.
    There is no proof and I said as much.

    Equally with Brexit there is no precedence. Nobody has left the EU before. We are in uncharted territory and saying can't and won't is just as daft as saying definitely will.

    So there no way to say that Scotland couldn't negotiate quickly the opportunity to stay in as rUK leaves.

    Simply put, Scotland is leaving the EU anyway. Do noting and that will happen.

    J

  20. #409
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ma bit
    Posts
    7,398
    Quote Originally Posted by stantonhibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The vast majority of the no voters I know did so because they didn't think the SNP' s economic argument stacked​ up.....EU never really came into it.
    The EU was a big factor for many, myself included. We were told that staying within the UK was the only way to ensure continued EU membership. As for economics, almost a decade of austerity has failed the country, particularly the less well off, who have carried the greater burden. The Scottish and English view of economic policy are divergent, with Tory dominated England preferring the neoliberalism of Thatcherism and Reaganomics, but Scotland being more social democratic. It's becoming increasingly hard to reconcile two such different visions.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  21. #410
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    between a brewery & distillery
    Posts
    11,094
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why?
    The opposite of that is

    Britain is weaker out of Europe, And that is where we are heading
    Attached Images Attached Images
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  22. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Equally with Brexit there is no precedence. Nobody has left the EU before. We are in uncharted territory and saying can't and won't is just as daft as saying definitely will.

    So there no way to say that Scotland couldn't negotiate quickly the opportunity to stay in as rUK leaves.
    ...and by your own argument, there is no way to say Scotland could negotiate quickly the opportunity to stay in the EU. You say so in the previous sentence.

  23. #412
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ma bit
    Posts
    7,398
    Quote Originally Posted by magpie1892 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ...and by your own argument, there is no way to say Scotland could negotiate quickly the opportunity to stay in the EU. You say so in the previous sentence.
    That's a potentially huge problem too. All in all it's a mess either way and will require some fixing in the coming years. However, independence seems the only hope of staying in/returning to the EU, as, once the UK leaves, there will be no going back.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 16-03-2017 at 02:21 PM.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  24. #413
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Saint-Malo, Brittany
    Age
    50
    Posts
    16,088
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Fluctuate is a little bit of an understatement in regards to the drop in oil prices is it not?
    Only if you don't understand the meaning of the word.

  25. #414
    First Team Regular ACLeith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sunny Leith
    Age
    68
    Posts
    999
    In 2014 under YES vote we were told in effect that England would automatically take over the old U.K. membership. So we can equally take over the same membership this time round?

    Or does that not work because Scotland does not equal the UK whereas England does?

    Or am I just being naive/stupid/simplistic- delete any that don't apply!

  26. #415
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by ACLeith View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    In 2014 under YES vote we were told in effect that England would automatically take over the old U.K. membership. So we can equally take over the same membership this time round?

    Or does that not work because Scotland does not equal the UK whereas England does?

    Or am I just being naive/stupid/simplistic- delete any that don't apply!
    I think it would be that England remained part of the UK and it would still be a member. Scotland would not be part of the UK and would not have that membership available.

  27. #416
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Only if you don't understand the meaning of the word.
    Well I do but its plain to see for anyone with half a brain cell that the oil price crash was down to more than just price fluctuation?

    Would you agree?


  28. #417
    First Team Regular ACLeith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sunny Leith
    Age
    68
    Posts
    999
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think it would be that England remained part of the UK and it would still be a member. Scotland would not be part of the UK and would not have that membership available.
    But the UK ceases to exist surely if one of the 2 member states leaves?

  29. #418
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    between a brewery & distillery
    Posts
    11,094
    Quote Originally Posted by ACLeith View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But the UK ceases to exist surely if one of the 2 member states leaves?
    Northern Ireland?
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  30. #419
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    417
    Quote Originally Posted by ACLeith View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But the UK ceases to exist surely if one of the 2 member states leaves?
    What about Wales & Nothern Ireland, do they not count?

  31. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by ACLeith View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    In 2014 under YES vote we were told in effect that England would automatically take over the old U.K. membership. So we can equally take over the same membership this time round?

    Or does that not work because Scotland does not equal the UK whereas England does?

    Or am I just being naive/stupid/simplistic- delete any that don't apply!
    rUK would demand to be seen as the "successor state" due to relative size and that we were the ones that left, so they would inherit the various UK memberships. I don't think it's completely impossible for the EU to allow Scotland to continue under the UK membership* but in practice it's far more likely we'll be given some kind of associate or transitional status (possibly EEA membership) inside the single market and then have our application as a new state approved. EU sources (eg. Chair of EU foreign affairs committee) are already saying this won't be a problem.


    * they do tend to make up the rules as it suits, eg. admission of former East Germany on the nod.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved