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Thread: Indy Ref 2

  1. #1921
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Yet despite all of your protestations, you have still never denied it...

    The yes campaign / SNP made a big effort to get people engaging all over the internet to try amd influence people.

    Given that you are the most close minded, obviously partisan person on these boards, that you have a constant supply of negative links about oponents, that you take an unhealthy interest in other parties election literature, and that when you are pressed on an issue you answer with lines that read like they come straight from the laptop of a press officer, and the fact that you have never denied it explicitly, i think it is a reasonable assumption to make.


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  3. #1922
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I'm less in the "build it and they will come" camp and more for the "let's wait and see who comes then build" camp.
    I'm more in the first camp but fully understand folks reservations. I do think we definitely require radical thinking to relieve the strain on housing shortages especially for vulnerable folk and the unaffordable house prices especially for the young, possibly on the grand scale I've been banging on about.

    glory glory

  4. #1923
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Yet despite all of your protestations, you have still never denied it...

    The yes campaign / SNP made a big effort to get people engaging all over the internet to try amd influence people.

    Given that you are the most close minded, obviously partisan person on these boards, that you have a constant supply of negative links about oponents, that you take an unhealthy interest in other parties election literature, and that when you are pressed on an issue you answer with lines that read like they come straight from the laptop of a press officer, and the fact that you have never denied it explicitly, i think it is a reasonable assumption to make.
    I've told you several times.

    Here it's again. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE SNP.

    Enjoy your match on SUNDAY.

  5. #1924
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    It's not really the same though is it.

    We were discussing local election literature, not some soundbite.
    Just so happens the sound bite was the leader of the SNP launching the local manifesto. Which has been printed across all sorts of media...so yeah looks and sounds quite similar to me.

  6. #1925
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    Just so happens the sound bite was the leader of the SNP launching the local manifesto. Which has been printed across all sorts of media...so yeah looks and sounds quite similar to me.
    So, it was a sound bite and not some local election literature then. Glad we got that sorted.

  7. #1926
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I've told you several times.

    Here it's again. I DO NOT WORK FOR THE SNP.

    Enjoy your match on SUNDAY.
    Thats the first time actually that you have denied it. Im happy to take you at your word.

    But i still think your involved in one of the campaigns, paid or unpaid.

    Thanks, i will!

  8. #1927
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Thats the first time actually that you have denied it. Im happy to take you at your word.

    But i still think your involved in one of the campaigns, paid or unpaid.

    Thanks, i will!

  9. #1928
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Fine, I don't feel remotely qualified to comment tbh. (Yeah, yeah, doesn't usually stop me etc.)

    The point was that you can hardly go around espousing Brexit as a great idea for the UK because it will remove all tariffs and then say, ah, but you Scots will lose 60+% of your export market and hundreds of thousands of jobs because Brexit UK will impose punitive tariffs on iScotland.

    Ahh come on...not one teeny tiny thought on who the EU's tariffs are actually for, how fair they are on the rest of the world or if the benefit the EU citizens as a whole?


    But to address your point, yes indeed that would be a strange argument to make.

    Although I very much doubt a Brexited UK will be tariff free and there is no denying the huge interaction between Scotland and rUK's economies so to some degree the warnings of the dangers of putting the two in different political, monetary and regulatory environments are absolutely valid.

  10. #1929
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    Quote Originally Posted by northstandhibby View Post
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    I'm more in the first camp but fully understand folks reservations. I do think we definitely require radical thinking to relieve the strain on housing shortages especially for vulnerable folk and the unaffordable house prices especially for the young, possibly on the grand scale I've been banging on about.

    glory glory
    https://beta.gov.scot/news/406-milli...ordable-homes/

    I don't know about other local Authorities, but we are doing our bit on affordable housing.

    http://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/15056/...rdable-housing

    http://www.pkc.gov.uk/media/34006/De...Version_Sep_16
    Residential development, including conversions, consisting of 5 or more units should include provision of an affordable housing contribution amounting to an equivalent of 25% of the total number of units proposed. Whenever practical, the affordable housing should be integrated with, and indistinguishable from, the market housing.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  11. #1930
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Yet despite all of your protestations, you have still never denied it...

    The yes campaign / SNP made a big effort to get people engaging all over the internet to try amd influence people.

    Given that you are the most close minded, obviously partisan person on these boards, that you have a constant supply of negative links about oponents, that you take an unhealthy interest in other parties election literature, and that when you are pressed on an issue you answer with lines that read like they come straight from the laptop of a press officer, and the fact that you have never denied it explicitly, i think it is a reasonable assumption to make.
    Or maybe it's simply that a lot of people agree with the idea of independence enough to care about spreading the word on the Internet? Let's face it, the main stream media do them no favours whatsoever.

  12. #1931
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Thats the first time actually that you have denied it. Im happy to take you at your word.

    But i still think your involved in one of the campaigns, paid or unpaid.

    Thanks, i will!
    Danger!!!!!
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  13. #1932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Danger!!!!!
    I find it ironic that such an advocate of civic nationalism as you, takes such a strong interest in the constitutional affairs of Scotland when you dont live here.

    I thought civic nationalism was all about self determination based on residence?

  14. #1933
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I find it ironic that such an advocate of civic nationalism as you, takes such a strong interest in the constitutional affairs of Scotland when you dont live here.

    I thought civic nationalism was all about self determination based on residence?
    I still have ties to Scotland and might spend my twilight years back there. But only if the political climate is one where the people living there make the decisions for themselves rather than having them made for them.

  15. #1934
    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    Ahh come on...not one teeny tiny thought on who the EU's tariffs are actually for, how fair they are on the rest of the world or if the benefit the EU citizens as a whole?


    But to address your point, yes indeed that would be a strange argument to make.

    Although I very much doubt a Brexited UK will be tariff free and there is no denying the huge interaction between Scotland and rUK's economies so to some degree the warnings of the dangers of putting the two in different political, monetary and regulatory environments are absolutely valid.
    True. I am by inclination more of a free trader than a protectionist (I think) but overall I'm a pragmatist. Actually iirc an iScotland in the EEA but not EU could strike a zero tariff deal with rUK and be on zero tariff terms with the EU single market. The best of both worlds, to coin a phrase.

  16. #1935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Or maybe it's simply that a lot of people agree with the idea of independence enough to care about spreading the word on the Internet? Let's face it, the main stream media do them no favours whatsoever.

    you're spot on with that, balanced reporting..pffttt

  17. #1936
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875 View Post
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    you're spot on with that, balanced reporting..pffttt
    Every political party claims bias against them.

    Just like every fitba fan thinks the media hate their team.

    There must be some psychological theory behind it.

  18. #1937
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Every political party claims bias against them.

    Just like every fitba fan thinks the media hate their team.

    There must be some psychological theory behind it.
    I don't think the media generally hate Hibs - but they definitely love Rangers.

    The print media, with few exceptions, in the UK is surely unarguably Tory?

    And I can't believe you're seriously expecting anyone to believe all media types aren't overwhelmingly pro-Union here? Are you? Seriously?

  19. #1938
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I don't think the media generally hate Hibs - but they definitely love Rangers.

    The print media, with few exceptions, in the UK is surely unarguably Tory?

    And I can't believe you're seriously expecting anyone to believe all media types aren't overwhelmingly pro-Union here? Are you? Seriously?
    There are plenty on the main board who are convinced the media hate us. Every week there is a sportsound thread.

    Newspapers certainly, but it is well known and so i dont see it as insidious or disengenuous.

    The BBC has been called out for years about its pro labour, metropolitan outlook for years.

    I dont think all media types are pro union, i think its probably a majority though. The nats fame has only recently occurred, it will take years for the general upward shift in their popularity to find its way through into the media establishment.

    I know that John Swinneys wife used to work for the BBC, and there has always been some suggestion she was unfairly pushed out. And the ex controller of the BBC was, i believe married to susan deacon.

    Bit then blair jenkins, head of the yes campaign was very senior at the BBC i think?

  20. #1939
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    True. I am by inclination more of a free trader than a protectionist (I think) but overall I'm a pragmatist. Actually iirc an iScotland in the EEA but not EU could strike a zero tariff deal with rUK and be on zero tariff terms with the EU single market. The best of both worlds, to coin a phrase.
    Ha well I finally managed to extract something of the free marketeer in you JMS! My job is done

  21. #1940
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I still have ties to Scotland and might spend my twilight years back there. But only if the political climate is one where the people living there make the decisions for themselves rather than having them made for them.
    what decisions can you make in your new home that you couldnt make for yourself here in scotland out of curiosity ?

  22. #1941
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    what decisions can you make in your new home that you couldnt make for yourself here in scotland out of curiosity ?
    I think he means as a people not as an individual. That's fairly obvious to me.

  23. #1942
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    As another outsider, I too am curious is the plan to increase tax, VAT ect if independence were to happen? Wages would also have to increase also..?
    I know there's probs a long answer to my question (I'll say!) but I'm generally interested after Angus Robertson's latest comments on becoming like Norway.

  24. #1943
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    Quote Originally Posted by OsloHibs View Post
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    As another outsider, I too am curious is the plan to increase tax, VAT ect if independence were to happen? Wages would also have to increase also..?
    I know there's probs a long answer to my question (I'll say!) but I'm generally interested after Angus Robertson's latest comments on becoming like Norway.
    The taxation question would be answered by the Government of the day, no?

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  25. #1944
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    The taxation question would be answered by the Government of the day, no?

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    There's some truth in what you state however the Scottish electorate would expect whatever government of the day was in charge in the event of a yes vote to stick to what it was promised beforehand. I doubt very much the party in charge post yes vote performing an abrupt u turn from the promises of wealth redistribution would endear itself to the Scottish electorate. I think whatever party is in charge would have to more or less act on the promises made by the SNP prior to winning an indy ref 2 vote.

    glory glory

  26. #1945
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northstandhibby View Post
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    There's some truth in what you state however the Scottish electorate would expect whatever government of the day was in charge in the event of a yes vote to stick to what it was promised beforehand. I doubt very much the party in charge post yes vote performing an abrupt u turn from the promises of wealth redistribution would endear itself to the Scottish electorate. I think whatever party is in charge would have to more or less act on the promises made by the SNP prior to winning an indy ref 2 vote.

    glory glory
    After a yes vote, there would be an election. At that point, the parties would set out their manifestos, including their taxation policies.

    It's not a foregone conclusion that whoever the Government is now would be the Government then.

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  27. #1946
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    After a yes vote, there would be an election. At that point, the parties would set out their manifestos, including their taxation policies.

    It's not a foregone conclusion that whoever the Government is now would be the Government then.

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    I didn't say the government now would be the government then to be fair to myself.

    If the snp and greens win an indy ref 2 vote it would follow the Scottish electorate would vote for similar parties policies post independence. The snp have aligned themselves with the greens and both have a philosophy of wealth redistribution.

    Its extremely unlikely in the event of yes anything other than a party with a progressive socialist manifesto would be voted in.

    glory glory

  28. #1947
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    Quote Originally Posted by northstandhibby View Post
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    I didn't say the government now would be the government then to be fair to myself.

    If the snp and greens win an indy ref 2 vote it would follow the Scottish electorate would vote for similar parties policies post independence. The snp have aligned themselves with the greens and both have a philosophy of wealth redistribution.

    Its extremely unlikely in the event of yes anything other than a party with a progressive socialist manifesto would be voted in.

    glory glory
    Can't say that I've seen much evidence of wealth redistribution thus far. (cue an 8 pager pagger......)

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  29. #1948
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Can't say that I've seen much evidence of wealth redistribution thus far. (cue an 8 pager pagger......)


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    You're being a tad sly/mischievous there methinks as the snp and the greens who are calling for independence are doing so in light of making a case they aren't able to make substantial significant reforms as part of the Union and are arguing independence would give them full control of the political levers in order to do so.

    No thanks

    I've made a very fair prediction of the type of party that would win power in Scotland post a yes vote (progressive socialist), what would emerge a couple of elections later after their record/s of being in government indy Scotland could be another matter and its up to readers to agree/disagree/bother at all.

    glory glory

  30. #1949
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northstandhibby View Post
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    You're being a tad sly/mischievous there methinks as the snp and the greens who are calling for independence are doing so in light of making a case they aren't able to make substantial significant reforms as part of the Union and are arguing independence would give them full control of the political levers in order to do so.

    No thanks

    I've made a very fair prediction of the type of party that would win power in Scotland post a yes vote (progressive socialist), what would emerge a couple of elections later after their record/s of being in government indy Scotland could be another matter and its up to readers to agree/disagree/bother at all.

    glory glory
    Of course I was. But the fact remains that some of those levers have been there since Day 1 of devolution, and none of the 3 parties who have been in power have seen fit to use them. The LibDems tried with their 1p on Income Tax to fund free higher education, but as soon as they got a sniff of power, that was forgotten about.

    Which sums up my views on mainstream politicians... that the first rule of Government is to stay in Government.

  31. #1950
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    Not sure how it fits in to the latest on this thread but more than half of my mates that currently say they vote SNP have stated they'd likely vote Labour in an iScotland (there's also a tory, but keeps a bit quiet :-) )

    if that's reflected across the wider population to any extent I can easily see a Labour government here much sooner than in Westminster.

    Still think SNP will get the 1st one during a sort of honeymoon period.

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