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Thread: Indy Ref 2

  1. #2521
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    You know, I often get asked to make a strong enough case for independence (usually by people where it wouldn't matter how strong the case was, they would find their own percieved flaws in it regardless). When I asked them to make a strong enough case for remaining in the UK while things continue to decay year on year, I never got one, not once.

    If it wasn't because they were scared, then what was it really? Because their arguments for remaining part of the UK were pretty much non existent. The few arguments I did hear have now fallen to pieces in the space of 3 years. But that doesn't seem to matter a jot....

    First part - you're the one wanting to change the status quo.

    Second part - another statement full of arrogance. Who are you to tell other people why they voted they way they did? Or does their democratic right to vote as they see fit "not matter a jot"?
    Have you added mind reading to your ability to see the future, since you've already told us categorically what will happen to the pound in the future? Btw, what you have said is a prediction, because you cannot guarantee it will happen, no matter how much you try to spin in.


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  3. #2522
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    First part - you're the one wanting to change the status quo.

    Second part - another statement full of arrogance. Who are you to tell other people why they voted they way they did? Or does their democratic right to vote as they see fit "not matter a jot"?
    Have you added mind reading to your ability to see the future, since you've already told us categorically what will happen to the pound in the future? Btw, what you have said is a prediction, because you cannot guarantee it will happen, no matter how much you try to spin in.
    In fairness, the status quo is being changed for us.

  4. #2523
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    In fairness, the status quo is being changed for us.

    I'd say that's a fair point.

    I'm much more in favour of balanced, decent and respectful debate, from both sides, rather than the derogatory comments which only help foster division and acrimony.

    You often bring passionate input from the independence side R7, amongst others, and there are others who bring similar passion to the table from 'no' side, which leads to insightful debate. It's in that arena that the discussion and debate will help inform and guide the electorate towards a population who are more able to deal constructively and productively with the challenges and decisions ahead.

  5. #2524
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    I'd say that's a fair point.

    I'm much more in favour of balanced, decent and respectful debate, from both sides, rather than the derogatory comments which only help foster division and acrimony.

    You often bring passionate input from the independence side R7, amongst others, and there are others who bring similar passion to the table from 'no' side, which leads to insightful debate. It's in that arena that the discussion and debate will help inform and guide the electorate towards a population who are more able to deal constructively and productively with the challenges and decisions ahead.
    We can all get heated at times. We're Hibs fans after all.

  6. #2525
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    We can all get heated at times. We're Hibs fans after all.

    Very true mate

    (I was speaking in relative generalities, not just on here , but totally agree, and it is a very emotive subject)

  7. #2526
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    First part - you're the one wanting to change the status quo.

    Second part - another statement full of arrogance. Who are you to tell other people why they voted they way they did? Or does their democratic right to vote as they see fit "not matter a jot"?
    Have you added mind reading to your ability to see the future, since you've already told us categorically what will happen to the pound in the future? Btw, what you have said is a prediction, because you cannot guarantee it will happen, no matter how much you try to spin in.
    What exactly is the status quo?
    You probably find those who are debating are those who are not for changing no matter what the circumstances are.
    Last edited by pacoluna; 03-07-2017 at 10:17 PM.

  8. #2527
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    You know, I often get asked to make a strong enough case for independence (usually by people where it wouldn't matter how strong the case was, they would find their own percieved flaws in it regardless). When I asked them to make a strong enough case for remaining in the UK while things continue to decay year on year, I never got one, not once.

    If it wasn't because they were scared, then what was it really? Because their arguments for remaining part of the UK were pretty much non existent. The few arguments I did hear have now fallen to pieces in the space of 3 years. But that doesn't seem to matter a jot....
    We have to recognise that the No side have very valid reasons for wanting to remain in the U.K. The bigots on either side who refuse to respect or listen to the opinions of others only generate ineffectual noise. I'm sure you can agree with that.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  9. #2528
    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    First part - you're the one wanting to change the status quo.

    Second part - another statement full of arrogance. Who are you to tell other people why they voted they way they did? Or does their democratic right to vote as they see fit "not matter a jot"?
    Have you added mind reading to your ability to see the future, since you've already told us categorically what will happen to the pound in the future? Btw, what you have said is a prediction, because you cannot guarantee it will happen, no matter how much you try to spin in.
    Except it's not the "status quo". The UK is changing and not in a good way. There will be changes regardless of whether we stay or leave.

  10. #2529
    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    We have to recognise that the No side have very valid reasons for wanting to remain in the U.K. The bigots on either side who refuse to respect or listen to the opinions of others only generate ineffectual noise. I'm sure you can agree with that.
    I just want to know what those valid reasons are, because the only reasons that seemed loosely valid to me during the referendum at the time have been completely wiped out in the space of 3 years.

    I recall being told that we had the "best of both worlds", the "strong arms of the UK economy" and that we were "equal members who would help lead the way forward". It sounded ridiculous to me then, but playing it back in my mind now just seems like a complete and utter insult.

  11. #2530
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    I just want to know what those valid reasons are, because the only reasons that seemed loosely valid to me during the referendum at the time have been completely wiped out in the space of 3 years.

    I recall being told that we had the "best of both worlds", the "strong arms of the UK economy" and that we were "equal members who would help lead the way forward". It sounded ridiculous to me then, but playing it back in my mind now just seems like a complete and utter insult.
    You have previously stated you have no respect for those who don't agree with your views so maybe you simply can't see the other side of an argument or just don't listen. In amongst all the noise during the referundum there was decent debate coming from both sides, not just soundbites.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  12. #2531
    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    You have previously stated you have no respect for those who don't agree with your views so maybe you simply can't see the other side of an argument or just don't listen. In amongst all the noise during the referundum there was decent debate coming from both sides, not just soundbites.
    I have never once stated that I don't have respect for people who don't agree with my views. I have however made it clear that I don't respect those who don't respect this country or it's culture. But I can see how that could easily be misconstrued.

    Well I recieved nothing but soundbites, even from the official "Better Together" campaign.

  13. #2532
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    What exactly is the status quo?
    You probably find those who are debating are those who are not for changing no matter what the circumstances are.

    The status quo is being part of the United Kingdom.

    'Probably find' - I'm glad youve brought along evidence then

    as for those debating, you do realise I specifically mentioned people on both sides of the discussion?

  14. #2533
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    I just want to know what those valid reasons are, because the only reasons that seemed loosely valid to me during the referendum at the time have been completely wiped out in the space of 3 years.

    I recall being told that we had the "best of both worlds", the "strong arms of the UK economy" and that we were "equal members who would help lead the way forward". It sounded ridiculous to me then, but playing it back in my mind now just seems like a complete and utter insult.

    They don't need to be valid to you, only to the person casting their vote and having their opinion. just as your reasons don't need to be valid to them, but are equally important as they are valid to you.

  15. #2534
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    The status quo is being part of the United Kingdom.

    'Probably find' - I'm glad youve brought along evidence then

    as for those debating, you do realise I specifically mentioned people on both sides of the discussion?
    It's a wasted debate on those who are still happy with the status quo because let's face it the United Kingdom surely can't get any worse. It's the silent undecided that will determine our future, demographics, time and hope on our side.

  16. #2535
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    It's a wasted debate on those who are still happy with the status quo because let's face it the United Kingdom surely can't get any worse. It's the silent undecided that will determine our future, demographics, time and hope on our side.

    Definitely agree with this mate

  17. #2536
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    It's a wasted debate on those who are still happy with the status quo because let's face it the United Kingdom surely can't get any worse. It's the silent undecided that will determine our future, demographics, time and hope on our side.
    A wasted debate? And you want us to gain Independence?
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  18. #2537
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    A wasted debate? And you want us to gain Independence?
    Yes it's a wasted debate when those who are debating are not for turning no matter what the circumstances. Independence will come in time through patience and a generational shift IMO.

  19. #2538
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    Yes it's a wasted debate when those who are debating are not for turning no matter what the circumstances. Independence will come in time through patience and a generational shift IMO.
    Surely that counts for both sides, no?

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  20. #2539
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Surely that counts for both sides, no?

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    I'd be willing to turn if I believed it was in the interests of Scotland. I don't however believe that remaining part of the UK is in our best interests. I've spoken to unionists who actually agree that it's not in Scotlands best interests either, but couldn't care less about that. As long as it's deemed better for the UK as a whole to remain an ignored member state.

  21. #2540
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    I'd be willing to turn if I believed it was in the interests of Scotland. I don't however believe that remaining part of the UK is in our best interests. I've spoken to unionists who actually agree that it's not in Scotlands best interests either, but couldn't care less about that. As long as it's deemed better for the UK as a whole to remain an ignI ored member state.
    So the No campaign only consisted of three sound bites and the No voters who moved beyond them with you agree that Independence is the best option but couldn't care less about their personal circumstances and will happily vote for what they see as the worst option as long as it means they remain in an ignored state.
    Looks like there is no need to campaign for a Yes vote, we are going to get a landslide by doing nowt. Happy days.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  22. #2541

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