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Thread: Indy Ref 2

  1. #2611
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Apart from the fact that you've completely ignored the points he made...points that were backed up by the BBC article I linked.

    Even if the guy was told what he has been quoted as being said to him the fact remains that what he was told was incorrect and inaccurate. You can at least admit that yeah?
    I've already said there are long standing arrangements between trusts on funding. Again I'll repeat my self. The problem is not what should happen but what did happen. That and the fact that since the integration of the military medical service in the NHS, there are no military hospitals in the UK outside England.


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  3. #2612
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I've already said there are long standing arrangements between trusts on funding. Again I'll repeat my self. The problem is not what should happen but what did happen. That and the fact that since the integration of the military medical service in the NHS, there are no military hospitals in the UK outside England.
    But when it comes down to it, no one is being treated differently on the grounds of nationality, are they?

    Which was the point you originally made, stuck by and has been thoroughly discredited.

    At what point will you admit you were wrong?
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  4. #2613
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    But when it comes down to it, no one is being treated differently on the grounds of nationality, are they?

    Which was the point you originally made, stuck by and has been thoroughly discredited.

    At what point will you admit you were wrong?
    My point from the very beginning was about inequality amongst British casualties of war. There are no centrally financed specialist military treatment units in Scotland, Ireland or Wales. This guy was promised if he'd sign his discharge papers he'd continue to receive treatment in the military unit regardless. Now a couple of years down the line it appears he's now dependant on his local NHS funding the treatment and the promise was an empty one. If there had been a similar centrally funded unit in Scotland then he would not now be in the situation he finds himself. If you're going to send Scottish lads to war on behalf of the British Army then you damn well should make sure they have the same chance of care in Scotland when they return home crippled.

  5. #2614
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    My point from the very beginning was about inequality amongst British casualties of war. There are no centrally financed specialist military treatment units in Scotland, Ireland or Wales. This guy was promised if he'd sign his discharge papers he'd continue to receive treatment in the military unit regardless. Now a couple of years down the line it appears he's now dependant on his local NHS funding the treatment and the promise was an empty one. If there had been a similar centrally funded unit in Scotland then he would not now be in the situation he finds himself. If you're going to send Scottish lads to war on behalf of the British Army then you damn well should make sure they have the same chance of care in Scotland when they return home crippled.
    Except that's not true.

    There's no inequality, you claimed there was and now you are backtracking furiously.

    Own up and admit "Scottish lads" get the same deal as "English lads", healthcare wise.

    Shame on you for trying to make this into a nationalist point.
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  6. #2615
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Sheep ****gers, Sweaty Sock, Porridge Wog, Haggis Basher. Take your pick, all affectionate nicknames used to describe Scottish comrades in the military.
    I've never heard porridge wog before...but I like it. When I lived in Leeds it was generally just "you Scottish ****".

  7. #2616
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quite a good piece here by Bateman. He covers Lord Darling (Labour Lord) well imo.

    The Sun Has Got His Hat On
    Sorry not to join the general lament but I return from a few weeks in France with renewed optimism about independence.
    The infantile squabbling of the governing party in London is a pitiable sight. Their wilful myopia to the unfolding tragedy of Brexit is a new low in post war mismanagement. (Even in the mayhem of Iraq, Blair at the time appeared decisive and determined).
    We are witnessing in real time the breakdown of a government subjugating national interest for internecine turmoil.
    Week by week their failure even to develop a plan is confirmed. Now there is the growing likelihood of a long-term transitional arrangement with Brussels being necessary to stave off the worst effects of withdrawal. The angry hordes who voted to leave and who have no understanding why we can’t just ‘resign’, will be maddened that those who promised swift closure and instant funds for public spending have failed them. And still the highly-charged door to immigration will be remain open…
    We are now in a phase of history when, because of the ineptitude of that cowardly clown Cameron, everything that can go wrong, does go wrong. The so-called government he bequeathed has no touch let alone political elan. The juxtaposition of billions for a London Crossrail system with withdrawal of upgrading for essential rail services to Wales, the West country and the English north is a prime example. To anyone outside the metropolitan bubble it is nothing less than a government saying ****** You to the rest of the country. As taxpayers’ billions pour into overheated London, the provinces are deliberately left in spartan penury. More than half of transport spending now goes to one corner of the country, a total of £1500 more per head. That’s a figure you don’t hear repeated with the same emotional venom applied to higher Scottish spending.
    I have also experienced a morbid pleasure in watching the promises and vows of the pre-2014 British campaign bomb before our eyes. Recall with grim satisfaction how we were told with solemn sincerity that companies would leave an independent Scotland…then read how, daily the finance sector is transferring staff out of London and opening alternative offices in (independent) Ireland and Holland. See how even the horticulture sector which is dependent on outside labour, is now planning to move wholesale its production to Eastern Europe where the workers are.
    Remember how the Scottish currency would lose its value without the unshakable strength of the UK behind it…then see the volatility of sterling since the Brexit vote. Prices in the shops would go up…that’s happening now while wages stagnate.
    Hear again the echoes of the Alistair Darling threats of doom for the economy…before googling today’s news of ‘notable’ slowdown and ‘grim’ forecasts.
    Revisit your memories of Unionists scoffing at how we would be perceived in the world – ‘wee Scotland out on its own’ – then check out what even our American allies are writing about us losing our collective mind. Read what Europe regards as fantasy imperial posturing by a rickety, class-ridden country. They are laughing at the UK – the Eddie the Eagle of European nations.
    And, how could we forget? We were told by the wise and statesmanlike Darling that voting Yes would remove us from EU membership which would be catastrophic. How did that one go?
    The only thing Darling got right was moving on to the board of Morgan Stanley to continue trousering yet more of the private sector pounds that were his trademark as an MP.
    In other words the case made for the Union just three years ago is in ruins today. In a second campaign what threats could they make that would be credible? What could they say that wouldn’t have the voters rolling in the aisles? Who indeed could replace the wooden, angry Darling as front for the British state this time? Which one of the Tory Brexit buffons would Scots listen to? When it comes to more than a simplistic shouting match, could Davidson, a mouthy zealot from the right wing, rally a majority?
    And, crucially, whose side would business be on this time? Interesting to see among others, Struan Stevenson, leader a pro business pro Union group, putting his name to the 60-strong letter asking for Brexit to be re-thought.
    Because the question now is: What happens when the Tories take us out?
    If the EU is truly crucial to national interest, to jobs and investment and growth, what does a Unionist businessman do when confronted with downturn, loss of contracts, shortage of revenue, falling share value, loss of market share, redundancies, restricted borrowing and extra administration and costs? Does he go down with the UK ship? Or does he finally accept the logic adopted by other small nations and embrace his own country’s European destiny?
    It is becoming a no-brainer. And if business swallows its doubts about independence as the least worst option, how long will it take for the politicians to catch up?
    There is a risk of course in any extended interim deal for the UK becoming the new norm and taking all the heat out of the issue. If that happens and people get used to just drifting along still in the EU but not of the EU, the independence case could suffer the same fate. It could go off the boil.
    That’s where effective campaigning comes in because such deal would extend the period over which Scotland can plan and hold another vote before the UK slams the door on membership.
    The option are there. The times are volatile. The Union is flaky. The threats are demolished. The disaster is unfolding.
    And we are still here. Committed. Determined. And optimistic.
    (Well, I am. Must be my holiday)

  8. #2617
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Except that's not true.

    There's no inequality, you claimed there was and now you are backtracking furiously.

    Own up and admit "Scottish lads" get the same deal as "English lads", healthcare wise.

    Shame on you for trying to make this into a nationalist point.
    You might not want to see the inequality but it's there. How many military specialist units (MDHUs) are incorporated into the NHS in Scotland? How many in Wales? Or Ireland? The perfect double whammy by Tory and Labour governments. First the Tories incorporate the military health service into English hospitals only and staffed by centrally financed military personnel and followed by Labour taking the country into 2 very questionable wars.

    The*Armed Forces Covenant*states that the armed forces community should enjoy the same standard of, and access to, healthcare as that received by any other UK citizen in the area they live. How's that working out in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

    As for the shame game, go point your finger at your unionist buddies who are now labelling Callum Brown as a low life Jock junkie on the sponge in England.

  9. #2618
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    You might not want to see the inequality but it's there. How many military specialist units (MDHUs) are incorporated into the NHS in Scotland? How many in Wales? Or Ireland? The perfect double whammy by Tory and Labour governments. First the Tories incorporate the military health service into English hospitals only and staffed by centrally financed military personnel and followed by Labour taking the country into 2 very questionable wars.

    The*Armed Forces Covenant*states that the armed forces community should enjoy the same standard of, and access to, healthcare as that received by any other UK citizen in the area they live. How's that working out in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

    As for the shame game, go point your finger at your unionist buddies who are now labelling Callum Brown as a low life Jock junkie on the sponge in England.
    There is a limit to how many places of expertise one can have, because there are only so many specialists. In that regard it doesn't matter whether it is Birmingham, Belfast or Brechin, there's only capacity for one and in fairness locating it in Birmingham probably makes most sense,

    I see you've dropped your 'centrally funded' claim. Are you accepting that this is a simple discussion between two health boards and not an English-Scottish thing as you claimed?

    As for your last paragraph, that's beneath you. "Unionist buddies", really?

    I know we have had disagreements on here, mostly after the referendum, but I actually rate your posts on the whole, despite our obviously differing views.
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  10. #2619
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    I've been speaking to the laddie's mother in law on Facebook.

    It seems that communications are still woeful.

    This is part of a reply she sent me.

    Yes he is fighting for medical cannibis, but more than that he is fighting to have his care continued as was promised to him. He still requires major surgery, he had a massive infection that a Scottish hospital missed. He was told if he hadn't gone to Birmingham he would have been dead within a year.

    Neither health boards have written nor been in touch with him to say that his care will continue in Birmingham funded by his own health board. Yes they said it to the papers, so why hasn't he been informed?

    Why did his consultants secretary call him to say they couldn't do his Mri on the very day the Ayrshire health board said they would fund him?

    Why are top military officers getting in on this?

    I too hope this is resolved. But until we see it happening, we won't let it lie.
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  11. #2620
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Now that the UK gov have decided to "re-organise" the books, it might help "The cause". It seems we have more money than we thought. Who'd have thunk it.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-magic-money-rigs/

  12. #2621
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Now that the UK gov have decided to "re-organise" the books, it might help "The cause". It seems we have more money than we thought. Who'd have thunk it.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-magic-money-rigs/
    I read your link and thought this was the most telling part, in the summary:

    "Now, we’re not remotely expert enough when it comes to the labyrinth of government trade stats to determine how significant that is"

    That's telling isn't it? The writer can't offer any sound critique. He just posts a jumble of figures, makes a few extravagant claims, and then defends his inability to back them up.

    But hey-ho, it's another linkable blog in the post-truth world.


    Instead of constantly posting soundbites from propagandists (and really shameful propagandists at that), why don't you offer your own thoughts, your own commentary, your own analysis?

    No one is going to crucify you for it, this place is meant to be about debate, putting forward an argument, having that challenged, refuting or accepting others' views.

    It would be so much more refreshing to read your actual views and agree or disagree, than just see a constant stream of hyperlinks to politicised blogs





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  13. #2622
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    I read your link and thought this was the most telling part, in the summary:

    "Now, we’re not remotely expert enough when it comes to the labyrinth of government trade stats to determine how significant that is"

    That's telling isn't it? The writer can't offer any sound critique. He just posts a jumble of figures, makes a few extravagant claims, and then defends his inability to back them up.

    But hey-ho, it's another linkable blog in the post-truth world.


    Instead of constantly posting soundbites from propagandists (and really shameful propagandists at that), why don't you offer your own thoughts, your own commentary, your own analysis?

    No one is going to crucify you for it, this place is meant to be about debate, putting forward an argument, having that challenged, refuting or accepting others' views.


    It would be so much more refreshing to read your actual views and agree or disagree, than just see a constant stream of hyperlinks to politicised blogs





    Once again, you "spectacularly" miss the point.

    Have you heard this omission of our oil figures mentioned in the MSM in the last couple of days. I'll give you a clue, you've not. If this was a reference to the oft mentioned £15 Billion pound deficit it would be wall to wall coverage. I remember a wee while back when you couldn't get on here for the deficit getting mentioned and the Gers (not the govan types) was a hot topic.

    The blog in question, doesn't offer an expert opinion on Oil, however, he brings to the attention of the electorate, the underhanded ways in which the UK gov operates. Unknown regions are really the regions of Scotland fyi.

    On the subject of what posters should be offering on this site, it's not for you to decide, Simon, there are no rules which I've read which say you have to post in a certain way.

    As long as I stay within the rules, which I have, I will continue to post links to stories which others may like to see.

    Happy postings

  14. #2623
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    R7,,, for what it's worth I pretty much am on the same side as you (honest!) but if you'd put some of what you said in the above post along with that earlier link then you'd have had a much more powerful message

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  15. #2624
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Alf View Post
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    R7,,, for what it's worth I pretty much am on the same side as you (honest!) but if you'd put some of what you said in the above post along with that earlier link then you'd have had a much more powerful message

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    I've not had much time on my hands bud, hence my lack of postings, however, I can always depend on Simon to bring out the best in me.

  16. #2625
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I've not had much time on my hands bud, hence my lack of postings, however, I can always depend on Simon to bring out the best in me.
    :D

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  17. #2626
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Once again, you "spectacularly" miss the point.

    Have you heard this omission of our oil figures mentioned in the MSM in the last couple of days. I'll give you a clue, you've not. If this was a reference to the oft mentioned £15 Billion pound deficit it would be wall to wall coverage. I remember a wee while back when you couldn't get on here for the deficit getting mentioned and the Gers (not the govan types) was a hot topic.

    The blog in question, doesn't offer an expert opinion on Oil, however, he brings to the attention of the electorate, the underhanded ways in which the UK gov operates. Unknown regions are really the regions of Scotland fyi.

    On the subject of what posters should be offering on this site, it's not for you to decide, Simon, there are no rules which I've read which say you have to post in a certain way.

    As long as I stay within the rules, which I have, I will continue to post links to stories which others may like to see.

    Happy postings
    You cant expect the so-called MSM to report something as news, when it's just a propagandist blogger posting something he claims from an anonymous source as fact

    You also seem to gloss over the fact that the methodology was revised for the RTS figures, and the SNAP figures which might be considered more accurate show a massive increase in Scotland's oil exports at the same time the RTS one drops. Somewhere close to £15bn perhaps?

    It would be a better forum if we posted opinions for debate, and occasionally backed them up with certified facts, rather than posting falsehoods posing as 'facts' and then just kept repeating them and claimed any argument was just the MSM distorting things - that very convenient excuse .

    As for your latter point, I don't decide who posts what and in what way. You're right and I wouldn't really want to, in truth.

    I was merely expressing my opinion, which I'm sure you will let me, which is that repeatedly posting hyperlinks isn't really debate, it's just sloganising and a bit disappointing.

    And I have no idea who Simon is
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  18. #2627
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    You cant expect the so-called MSM to report something as news, when it's just a propagandist blogger posting something he claims from an anonymous source as fact

    You also seem to gloss over the fact that the methodology was revised for the RTS figures, and the SNAP figures which might be considered more accurate show a massive increase in Scotland's oil exports at the same time the RTS one drops. Somewhere close to £15bn perhaps?

    It would be a better forum if we posted opinions for debate, and occasionally backed them up with certified facts, rather than posting falsehoods posing as 'facts' and then just kept repeating them and claimed any argument was just the MSM distorting things - that very convenient excuse .

    As for your latter point, I don't decide who posts what and in what way. You're right and I wouldn't really want to, in truth.

    I was merely expressing my opinion, which I'm sure you will let me, which is that repeatedly posting hyperlinks isn't really debate, it's just sloganising and a bit disappointing.

    And I have no idea who Simon is


    That would be the same MSM which decided last week that Alex Salmond had never read a book. Full article by Kenny Farq in the Times, and his source was a uni student's interview. One which Salmond had said he'd never written a book. This was turned round by KF in his story to "read a book". The article was then removed by the Times, but surely a quick phone call to check his facts before running the story

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-vanishings/

    This was quickly followed up by David Torrance saying the same, or the Herald article leading from a Labour press release, regarding the train times. Once again found out telling lies.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/newspa...uracy-targets/

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-series-of-coincidences/

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-king-of-irony-world/

    Excuse me if I find myself looking at alternative sites/blogs which are reporting facts, instead of the broadsheets/tabloids which are being caught telling lies.

    You can carry on following the state news, the corrections page is getting bigger by the day, but some of use have moved on.

    Have a nice day Simon.

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