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Thread: Indy Ref 2

  1. #1981
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    The total lack of the SNP's hoped-for rise in support for independence in the wake of, firstly, the PM's 'now is not the time' assertion, secondly the triggering of Article 50 and finally the announcement of a snap general election has presumably given Sturgeon pause for thought. If this latest poll is to be believed support for independence has actually declined significantly:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7700416.html
    The first comment on that article (clearly posted by a pro-Indy person) if correct might explain your numbers:

    "Lies, damn lies and statistics as someone said. This poll actually reported that, excluding don't knows, 49% of respondents chose one or other of the pro-independence options and 51% chose the sole anti referendum option. In other words the exact same result as other recent polls"

    No idea how true that it as I can never figure these things out but your initial delight at the headline might not be so clear.


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  3. #1982
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Well its not what we are paying them for is it?
    How many other jobs do our MPs have? And these are unrelated to leading a political party. There are 100s.

    What about George Osborne (copied from elsewhere)

    :: He's a speaker at the Washington Speaker's Bureau, where he has a lucrative contract to perform after-dinner speeches around the world

    :: He's a chairman of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership

    :: He's an advisor to the American fund management firm Blackrock. He's thought to be paid 650,000 a year (yes, you read that right) for working one day a week for the company (yes, you read that right as well)

    :: He's a fellow at the McCain Institute, an American think tank

    :: He is the editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper

    :: And oh yes ... he's (still) the MP for Tatton (a salary of 75,000 a year plus expenses).

    Indeed here is a list of MPs, from 2015, whose outside interests would suggest a conflict of interest in maintaining the NHS as a not for profit organisation. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154

    At least Nicola Sturgeon sticks to what a leader of a political party should be doing, leading that party and supporting it at all levels.

  4. #1983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    How many other jobs do our MPs have? And these are unrelated to leading a political party. There are 100s.

    What about George Osborne (copied from elsewhere)

    :: He's a speaker at the Washington Speaker's Bureau, where he has a lucrative contract to perform after-dinner speeches around the world

    :: He's a chairman of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership

    :: He's an advisor to the American fund management firm Blackrock. He's thought to be paid 650,000 a year (yes, you read that right) for working one day a week for the company (yes, you read that right as well)

    :: He's a fellow at the McCain Institute, an American think tank

    :: He is the editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper

    :: And oh yes ... he's (still) the MP for Tatton (a salary of 75,000 a year plus expenses).

    Indeed here is a list of MPs, from 2015, whose outside interests would suggest a conflict of interest in maintaining the NHS as a not for profit organisation. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154

    At least Nicola Sturgeon sticks to what a leader of a political party should be doing, leading that party and supporting it at all levels.
    Backbench MPs, not government ministers.

    And anyway, are you defending those MPs and their second jobs, or just indulging in some serious whataboutery?

    But as you say, nicola sturgeon is the leader of a party first, and a country / government second. Thats precisely my point.

  5. #1984
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Backbench MPs, not government ministers.

    And anyway, are you defending those MPs and their second jobs, or just indulging in some serious whataboutery?

    But as you say, nicola sturgeon is the leader of a party first, and a country / government second. Thats precisely my point.
    Osbourne was a government minister when he held most of these non government posts!

    All in saying is your continuing attract on the FM is groundless and yes maybe a degree of whatabootery. Does your final point not apply to all political leaders?
    Space to let

  6. #1985
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    The first comment on that article (clearly posted by a pro-Indy person) if correct might explain your numbers:

    "Lies, damn lies and statistics as someone said. This poll actually reported that, excluding don't knows, 49% of respondents chose one or other of the pro-independence options and 51% chose the sole anti referendum option. In other words the exact same result as other recent polls"

    No idea how true that it as I can never figure these things out but your initial delight at the headline might not be so clear.
    Ah the polls.

    Some more...https://t.co/q2K6actlby

    I wonder if the pollsters deliberately leave out 16/17 yr olds for political reasons? I can understand it when they're not getting a vote (GE), but in an Indyref2 they'll be getting one.

  7. #1986
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Osbourne was a government minister when he held most of these non government posts!

    All in saying is your continuing attract on the FM is groundless and yes maybe a degree of whatabootery. Does your final point not apply to all political leaders?
    Im not sure he was - there is quite a strict ministerial code isnt there?

    And yes, you are right about second point, but i woyld say less so in Westminster, more so in holyrood where parties rarely disagree with themselves.

  8. #1987
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Local election issue.

    Willie Young, Labours Aberdeen council finance boss is an innocent bystander.

    https://t.co/3ZMaIc6Llc

    Any Aberdonians shed any light on this misunderstanding?

  9. #1988
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    The first comment on that article (clearly posted by a pro-Indy person) if correct might explain your numbers:

    "Lies, damn lies and statistics as someone said. This poll actually reported that, excluding don't knows, 49% of respondents chose one or other of the pro-independence options and 51% chose the sole anti referendum option. In other words the exact same result as other recent polls"

    No idea how true that it as I can never figure these things out but your initial delight at the headline might not be so clear.
    They're not 'my' numbers and I agree that polls are never wholly reliable, but one does sense that the sudden scaling back of Sturgeon's independence rhetoric and a further delay in outlining her plans in that respect are at least partly down to the fact that for all her attempts to demonise Westminster and the Tories, there's been no meaningful rise in support for independence:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...lans-1-4429015

  10. #1989
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Local election issue.

    Willie Young, Labours Aberdeen council finance boss is an innocent bystander.

    https://t.co/3ZMaIc6Llc

    Any Aberdonians shed any light on this misunderstanding?
    Willie Young epitomizes everything that is wrong with the ruling Labour Council in Aberdeen. Thankfully they won't be in place much longer.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  11. #1990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How many other jobs do our MPs have? And these are unrelated to leading a political party. There are 100s.

    What about George Osborne (copied from elsewhere)

    :: He's a speaker at the Washington Speaker's Bureau, where he has a lucrative contract to perform after-dinner speeches around the world

    :: He's a chairman of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership

    :: He's an advisor to the American fund management firm Blackrock. He's thought to be paid 650,000 a year (yes, you read that right) for working one day a week for the company (yes, you read that right as well)

    :: He's a fellow at the McCain Institute, an American think tank

    :: He is the editor of London's Evening Standard newspaper

    :: And oh yes ... he's (still) the MP for Tatton (a salary of 75,000 a year plus expenses).

    Indeed here is a list of MPs, from 2015, whose outside interests would suggest a conflict of interest in maintaining the NHS as a not for profit organisation. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...l-list-4646154

    At least Nicola Sturgeon sticks to what a leader of a political party should be doing, leading that party and supporting it at all levels.
    He's stepping down.

  12. #1991
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Im not sure he was - there is quite a strict ministerial code isnt there?

    And yes, you are right about second point, but i woyld say less so in Westminster, more so in holyrood where parties rarely disagree with themselves.
    Do you have any evidence at all to back up this assertion?

    Do you think Cameron was acting in any interest other than the Conservative party's when he called a referendum on Brexit?

  13. #1992
    Perhaps I spoke too soon in asserting that the SNP have put the independence rhetoric on hold:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-mp-...eats-1-4429631

    If the ever-pliable Greens bend to the SNP will here they should surely consider simply merging the parties.

  14. #1993
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    Perhaps I spoke too soon in asserting that the SNP have put the independence rhetoric on hold:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/snp-mp-...eats-1-4429631

    If the ever-pliable Greens bend to the SNP will here they should surely consider simply merging the parties.
    The Scottish Greens don't have the funds to fight this snap election everywhere and may target a few seats. They are not putting anyone up in Pete Wishart's Perth and North Perthshire, and are not sure about Ochils and South Perthshire. I suspect a few candidates in Glasgow, Edinburgh and possibly Stirling.

    As for the 'ever pliable Greens' this is the same party that forced the SNP to back down in Holyrood on their budget proposals. Greens are different to the SNP on a number of issues, Fossil Fuels, Air Passenger Duty, Transport to name a few.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  15. #1994
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Do you have any evidence at all to back up this assertion?

    Do you think Cameron was acting in any interest other than the Conservative party's when he called a referendum on Brexit?
    My evidence is that leaders are quite often opposed by their own party. We have a long amd established custom of backbench MPs. Wr have no equivalent at holyrood, which is one of its weaknesses imo.

  16. #1995
    Surely people won't be daft enough to re-elect fluffy in the General Election? Considering he is one of the 44 tory MPs being investigated for electoral expense fraud?

    Although in saying that.... fraudulent, devious behaviour seems to spur the tories on.....

  17. #1996
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    It looks like the Tories, or their supporters are taking things to another level.

    More suspect packages. https://t.co/jjsUdv6TI7

  18. #1997
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    It looks like the Tories, or their supporters are taking things to another level.

    More suspect packages. https://t.co/jjsUdv6TI7
    Any evidence that it was the Tories that sent the 'crystals' or indeed if it was a Tory voter or are you just making that up?

  19. #1998
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    My evidence is that leaders are quite often opposed by their own party. We have a long amd established custom of backbench MPs. Wr have no equivalent at holyrood, which is one of its weaknesses imo.
    So, no evidence then.

  20. #1999
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    Any evidence that it was the Tories that sent the 'crystals' or indeed if it was a Tory voter or are you just making that up?
    Well. The report mentioned a note in the package.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  21. #2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    It looks like the Tories, or their supporters are taking things to another level.

    More suspect packages. https://t.co/jjsUdv6TI7
    Atleast it wasn't something offensive, like stickers.

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