Report into Sectarianism

[Elephant Stone]

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Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, which is fine, but don't pretend you do. You have no idea what is taught in 'religious schools', if you did you wouldn't be posting utter nonsense like that.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Yes, its those catholics coming over here with their separate schools, that's who's to blame for anti-Irish racism.

[marinello59]

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Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Catholic schools are common in England. Why don't they have the same problems?

[Bostonhibby]

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Catholic schools are common in England. Why don't they have the same problems?

Amazing isn't it? There's 4 schools where I live. One has Catholic links but the issues that I recognise as features of Scottish sectarianism don't seem to arise. Especially the part associated with celtc and the rangers supporters.

[Pete]

Almost every Celtic away game I hear on the radio is enhanced by the Celtic symphony almost immediately after kick off.

You can argue the toss about how serious the words are but they know what it means.

For every bigoted Sevco opinion you could probably find a Celtic one that detests anything British and people who consider themselves to be British. Guess what, that's a form of bigotry too.

They are both as bad as each other.

[Sir David Gray]

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Only a proddy would say that😂😂

Aye ok good one.

[hibbysam]

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Almost every Celtic away game I hear on the radio is enhanced by the Celtic symphony almost immediately after kick off.

You can argue the toss about how serious the words are but they know what it means.

For every bigoted Sevco opinion you could probably find a Celtic one that detests anything British and people who consider themselves to be British. Guess what, that's a form of bigotry too.

They are both as bad as each other.

Absolutely. I have friends on both sides of the fence, majority of which are bigots within their own beliefs. It doesn't bother me, however I took two of said Sellick season ticket holders to a Charlie and the Bhoys night out just last week, and some of the bile that comes out of these organised events is easily as bad as what comes out of an Orange walk, and it's the same songs/chants that get sung at each and every away game. Whether the words/phrases in the songs actually portray sectarianism, the undertone of the songs have that very meaning, and to deny this is extremely ignorant.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Once upon a time there were sectarian issues (catholic/prod nature) in England with Liverpool being the prime example. Where there was even a Prodestant action party that had elected MPs at Westminster.
Over the decades these issues have melted away down south partly because the social and cultural links between N.Ireland and England are nowhere as strong as they are with the west of Scotland and also because in general England is far more diverse and multi cultural than your average Scottish town/area.
At least in Scotland we don't have ethnic ghettos which is now the norm in the north of England where white and asian people don't live side by side, don't work together and no longer go to school together... The problems in Blackburn or Oldham are far greater than the problems in Paisley or Airdrie.

[jgl07]

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Wow, that quote above is unbelievable, you cant address a problem by pretending it doesn't exist ... talk about being part of the problem and not the solution.

On that note ..... I was scanning a Hibs thread on Jumbo Sickbag and one of the posters referred to Hibs as "Republican" .... I was pleased to see that more than one poster with reasonably high post counts shouted the guy down on the basis that there's plenty to hate the Hobos for without resorting to that schyte .... good for them, I hope we would do the same

Makes a change from being called Fenians!

[Kato]

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Once upon a time there were sectarian issues (catholic/prod nature) in England with Liverpool being the prime example.

Never heard of this, could you expand?

Where there was even a Prodestant action party that had elected MPs at Westminster.

>protestant<

Protesant Action had some seats on the council in Edinburgh, don't they ever ran for Westminster never mind having an MP.

[littleplum]

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Never heard of this, could you expand?



>protestant<

Protesant Action had some seats on the council in Edinburgh, don't they ever ran for Westminster never mind having an MP.

There was a Liverpool Protestant Party that stood in a number of national elections pre-WWII with a not insignificant share of the vote (although never actually won). They continued to have councillors up until the 1970s. Still enough nonsense in the 1990s for the DUP to consider setting up a branch there (although I don't think it came to anything)- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/252606.stm

[Bishop Hibee]

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Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Would you care to provide data backing this up? Oh, that's right, you won't because their isn't any. For what it's worth the RC schools in most parts of Edinburgh are a multi-cultural mix of kids of all religions and none. Ironically more religiously diverse than their non-denominational neighbours.

Back to football, I actually think that fans of The Rangers seem more bigoted than the last days of the old version. Sad. As for Celtc fans, rebel songs at the games are so last millennium. Bad.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Think that bbc link provides you with some evidence Kato. From what I remember hearing the districts in Liverpool closest to the Mersey were mostly catholic and inland areas were mostly protestant.
Before WW2 the divisions in the city were quite stark but the impact the war had on the city, such as the docks and the mainly catholic areas nearby being blitzed by the Germans, brought the communities together. The cultural impact of the 50s & 60s such as the Beatles also changed the city greatly.

[Smartie]

I was speaking to my Mum and Dad recently about the "Who do you think you are" programme.

They said there was a good episode with Ricky Tomlinson on it and he could trace his family back to both sides, which was unusual.

One of the things they said on the programme was that the divide fell when the workers realised that by standing together they had more clout when standing up to the bosses (presumably at the docks) rather than fighting amongst themselves.

Quite why this didn't happen in Glasgow I don't know.

Although I strongly believe that the existence of the Glasgow football clubs, their "USP" and the fact that they dominate off the back of it has continued to propagate "Scotland's shame" for well over half a century longer than it was really ever acceptable or understandable.

[IWasThere2016]

I emailed Sturgeon after bile at Well-Rangers a few weeks back. Clearly heard the usual anti-"Fenian" crap .. 3 weeks on the reply was report it to the Polis.. like that makes an iota!

[beensaidbefore]

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Describing their songs as nationalist is being a bit liberal with the truth.

The issue for me is they are nationalist songs, but for another bloody country and era. Wtf has Bobby sands got to do with Scottish football? Exactly the same as king Billy. The sooner we compile a list of banned ditties and fine the bigger Bros every time we hear them, the sooner we will be rid. Not before.

Anyone good at holding their breath?

[jgl07]

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Protesant Action had some seats on the council in Edinburgh, don't they ever ran for Westminster never mind having an MP.

The Protestant Party had lots of seats on Liverpool City Council right up to the 1960s losing its last one in 1973. They stood a candidate, Reverend H. D. Longbottom, in the Liverpool Kirkdale seat for Westminster elections from 1931 until 1945, collecting 25% of the vote in 1931.

It is comparatively recently that the Conservatives in Liverpool started using blue as their campaign colour rather than orange.

Liverpool returned an Irish Nationalist MP, T P O'Connor, for the Liverpool Scotland Constituency from 1885 to 1929.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Makes a change from being called Fenians!

As a guy who just loves the entertainment of reading some of the utter pish posted about Hibs and the fine folk who support the club on Jumbo Sickbag I can honestly say I have never seen any post on that site that directly referred to Hibs fans as 'Fenians'

Thankfully it seems to me that the vast majority of fans of both clubs are happy to leave all that rubbish to the west side of the country .... we perhaps have a tiny minority who don't think that's way and the Yams perhaps a little bit more than that. But if you ask me its credit to BOTH supports that for all we have a heated and sometimes bitter rivalry we can sustain a decent amount of distain for each other without bringing religion into it, the odd idiot excepted.

Anyway .... If you want a non football vehicle to separate the two clubs I'm quite a fan of the growing number of posts I see on Sickbag where the Yams actually seem to revel in their tag of the 'establishment club' ..... If that leaves Hibs as the 'non establishment' club that'll do for me

[Kato]

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There was a Liverpool Protestant Party that stood in a number of national elections pre-WWII with a not insignificant share of the vote (although never actually won). They continued to have councillors up until the 1970s. Still enough nonsense in the 1990s for the DUP to consider setting up a branch there (although I don't think it came to anything)- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/252606.stm

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The Protestant Party had lots of seats on Liverpool City Council right up to the 1960s losing its last one in 1973. They stood a candidate, Reverend H. D. Longbottom, in the Liverpool Kirkdale seat for Westminster elections from 1931 until 1945, collecting 25% of the vote in 1931.

It is comparatively recently that the Conservatives in Liverpool started using blue as their campaign colour rather than orange.

Liverpool returned an Irish Nationalist MP, T P O'Connor, for the Liverpool Scotland Constituency from 1885 to 1929.

Cheers, guys.

[Vini1875]

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Scotland as a whole and therefore Scottish football will always have this problem
So long as we keep seperating our children at school age and educating them separately
Along Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

The divide is nurtured by national public funded institutions on impressionable kids.

If government is serious about ending the sectarian issue, teaching no religious theory other than total tolerance of all religions in all our schools would be a solid start for future generations.

Non-sense, only Scotland and the North of Ireland seem to have a problem with Catholic schools, England and Wales have faith schools and no sectarian problem to speak of. The school issue is a red herring. If you want to go down that route why not just ban churches, mosques, synagogues and temples of any creed?

Scottish Football has improved, maybe not fast enough, but it has improved.

[bigwheel]

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Describing their songs as nationalist is being a bit liberal with the truth.

They sings nationalist and songs of "freedom"...out of the stadium they, I'm sure some, sing songs in support of the IRA, their martyrs etc ...

Distasteful to many

I've never heard them for a long long time song any anti- Protestant songs

For me, that's the main difference between Celtic vs Rangers...Rangers fans almost always sing anti- catholic related songs

Celtic sing songs that are more political based - but rarely (if ever??) sing religious based sectarian songs

[Waxy]

It will never change until they admit to themselves they have a problem.I'm sure if they could be as passionate about their football clubs as they are about religion then the Glasgow derby wouldnt lose any atmosphere.
They only need look across to Edinburgh.

[WhileTheChief..]

Fed up hearing about 'Scotlands shame'.

It's nothing of the sort. It's an old firm issue, nothing else.

No one outside of Scotland gives a damn. The majority of people living in Scotland don't give a damn either.

[ancient hibee]

I'm fed up reading in this and other reports that football is guilty of allowing the spread of sectarianism.This is an issue that involves two clubs and two clubs only and it is high time that the reports tell it as it is Instead of tarring us all with the same brush.

[Keith_M]

The SFA and SPFL have arranged an Inquiry into sectarianism at Celtc and The Rangers and have already appointed the committee that will conduct the investigation.

[Is It On....]

If the authorities think sectarianism doesn't exist they should have a wee look at the Bears Den...some of the stuff posted is appalling.

[Sir David Gray]

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They sings nationalist and songs of "freedom"...out of the stadium they, I'm sure some, sing songs in support of the IRA, their martyrs etc ...

Distasteful to many

I've never heard them for a long long time song any anti- Protestant songs

For me, that's the main difference between Celtic vs Rangers...Rangers fans almost always sing anti- catholic related songs

Celtic sing songs that are more political based - but rarely (if ever??) sing religious based sectarian songs

I must have misheard them singing about various Rangers managers being "sad proddy *******s" then.

They routinely sing songs in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation and in my view, that's just as bad as the songs that come out of the stands at Ibrox every other week.

[Onion]

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The SFA and SPFL have arranged an Inquiry into sectarianism at Celtc and The Rangers and have already appointed the committee that will conduct the investigation.

So, they can prove to Sky and BT that bigotry is alive and well and will continue to fuel the "special atmosphere" that the TV companies desire. Without it, the money dries up.

[Keith_M]

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I must have misheard them singing about various Rangers managers being "sad proddy *******s" then.

They routinely sing songs in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation and in my view, that's just as bad as the songs that come out of the stands at Ibrox every other week.

While the number of vile songs they sing at home games pales in comparison to their Bigot Twin across the city, they still have their full vile repertoire and belt it out on their travels.


The 'freedom fighters' crap isn't fooling anybody either and they need to give that a rest.

[bigwheel]

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I must have misheard them singing about various Rangers managers being "sad proddy *******s" then.

They routinely sing songs in support of a proscribed terrorist organisation and in my view, that's just as bad as the songs that come out of the stands at Ibrox every other week.

it's impossible to get agreement on topics like this...so, I suspect I'll bow out of this. I've no love for many of the songs Celtic sing, but whilst distasteful, they are rarely religious in there nature. That is not the case of Rangers fans - who are dominantly religious in their nature.


...There were many protestants that supported (and, likely still do) the notion of a free Ireland.