Lift to FF upper being removed

[0762]

Something not right about this!

First we're told lift is being closed because of a Health Hub. Then someone's told in a phone call that the lift should have been closed already. Which is it?

Why would the Health Hub restrict access? In this age of disability access is required in all buildings to allow full unrestricted access to all areas of the building. Surely a Health Hub would involve people needing disabled access, so why can't supporters get access on a matchday? Think the Club are going down a very dangerous route actively restricting access for this section of the support, especially when the facility has been there since the stand was built.

If it should have already been closed have people been given access to a faulty lift? Probably even more worrying!! If it is faulty get it sorted and arrange access for those who need it.

[Sir David Gray]

I heard about this from someone on Saturday and just assumed it was a joke.

This move is completely unacceptable to myself as a disabled supporter who is confined to a wheelchair.

Although I don't sit in the FF stand, I regularly go into BTG before games and access it via the lift. Now if BTG is going to exist in any form next season and I'm unable to get to it because there's no lift then that is not a situation that I will find tolerable.

If BTG is being removed then that is a problem in itself especially when its replacement is a health club. It seems to be a very odd move and I hope the club are aware of the implications of such a decision.

I cannot understand why the club is going to make part of the stadium inaccessible to disabled people that is currently fully accessible.

[Stantons Angel]

"The whole thing is a mess and quite how Charlene thinks playing the populist card with the support as voting comes to and end is going to translate into a working relationship with the board she us criticising escapes me[/QUOTE]"


I would some what agree with this trait of thinking?

This has been stated as being the final part of the partnership being put in place, but i am unsure if the poster has done any investigation in to the subject herself other than just popping up here and leaving an open question

It is just typical that the post started asking about lift access and ends up all about where the bar is being put?

Somewhere in between i hope there is an answer to her question that can be put to the board to answer?

[0762]

Just spent 15-20mins Googling current disability regs. This is a minefield and hope they know what they're doing!
From building regs, to council guides, to safety at sportsgrounds they all point to all areas need to be accessible and its not just wheelchair users. Ambulant disabled would be hugely effected by this. Quick scan of the regs can't see how they could possibly get away with restricting disabled access.

[Sir David Gray]

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Just spent 15-20mins Googling current disability regs. This is a minefield and hope they know what they're doing!
From building regs, to council guides, to safety at sportsgrounds they all point to all areas need to be accessible and its not just wheelchair users. Ambulant disabled would be hugely effected by this. Quick scan of the regs can't see how they could possibly get away with restricting disabled access.

Restricting access to an area of the stadium which is currently fully accessible to those with a disability is a pretty dangerous road to go down.

I would have thought that this would contravene the Disability Discrimination Act.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I'm a bit perplexed by this whole thing.

I'm a big supporter of any initiative Hibs get behind which is of benefit to the community, I think its good for the club's image and helps in its aim to be cemented in as an active part of the local area, which hopefully will encourage more support for the club.

But in my opinion nothing the club do in this area should be at the expense of the people who already give the club their support. It isn't just disabled fans who will be inconvenienced by this move, it will also be older fans who use the FF ... I've only just turned 57 and can verify just what a strenuous climb is required to get to FF upper, I'm willing to bet some of the older FF users will find the climb next to impossible. I don't accept 'the lift isn't fit for purpose anyway' reason for this .... if that's the case get it fixed or get it replaced.

BTG is a huge bar and is extremely popular with fans .... I would frankly be astonished if Hibs do not replace it. The idea was to maximize use of "under used parts of the stadium" not to deprive fans of facilities they already use within the stadium in order to push community engagement projects.

BTG has its faults, but the main one is its popularity which means you cant get a seat if you turn up at any time after 1:30pm ..... its one of the reasons I stopped going there, along with plastic glasses and the trek required to go for a fag. Even if Hibs found a way to keep it open on matchdays it clearly seems that it would be smaller than it is now and there would be no access to it for disabled fans, both of which would be entirely unacceptable.

If BTG is to be replaced both the west and south stands are a no go as far as I can see, where in the west would there be room for a new bar anything like the size of BTG? ........ The south is too close to the away fans entrance, I doubt the police would fail to object to a licence for a supporters bar in that part of the stadium, at least not for home fans.

That leaves the east stand ... there is scope to build a new bar there by adding a first floor, but any bar would have to be at least as big, in fact bigger, than the existing BTG ... that way hopefully more folk could get a seat. It would have to be more Hibbyfied than the current BTG too, which if you didn't know was part of ER stadium would be hard to associate with the club ... where are the pictures of Hibs heroes, celebrating Hibs fans or even the clubs badge in the current bar? ..... it sure needs them?

But then what about the cost? ....... If Hibs are going to stump up to fit out the east, which would require new stairways, entrances, definitely a lift, new windows facing out the back, bars and of course the new floor itself ... then in order to facilitate the NHS hub in the FF Hibs wouldn't just be giving away facilities for free, they would be paying a fortune to give them away.

Whatever is going on its getting near time now where Hibs are going to have to give fans an idea of what the hell the end game is, especially now that they have got to the stage of inconveniencing supporters, how many supporters that amounts to is immaterial. Hibs is a football club and nothing they do should impact on the people that give it life, IMO that line has already been crossed with the lift issue, reducing the size and access for the disabled to BTG would be unacceptable ..... getting rid of BTG and failing to replace it at all would be utterly unforgivable in my opinion and make an utter mockery of this particular 'community' project.

The Hibernian community in the form of the clubs active support comes first before ANYTHING now and always, do not mess with it ..... over to you Leeann

[jgl07]

My season ticket is on the back row of the FF Upper and its not getting any easier for me to climb up this far at my age. I never knew there was a lift up there in the first place. It would only take me half way up anyway!

OK so a few people might have to be relocated. I may have to relocate myself in the near future.

The club seem to be trying to move the 'singing section' to the FF Upper. I don't mind as long as they are in the opposite end of the FF to me! Correction, I applaud the club for taking the initiative.

Other on here wanted to displace the entire FF Lower section to make a 'safe standing' area that is probably no legal until the Celtic experiment has been evaluated. Given the club a break please.

[macca70]

What about folk that need to use the lift to access the new Simging Section? Or did this mean they can't be part of the singing section?

I am assuming they are not disabling the lift and putting it out of commission. It is literally 5 metres from the FF Upper concorse so what's actually going to be happening to make it inaccessible on matchdays?

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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I'm a bit perplexed by this whole thing.

I'm a big supporter of any initiative Hibs get behind which is of benefit to the community, I think its good for the club's image and helps in its aim to be cemented in as an active part of the local area, which hopefully will encourage more support for the club.

But in my opinion nothing the club do in this area should be at the expense of the people who already give the club their support. It isn't just disabled fans who will be inconvenienced by this move, it will also be older fans who use the FF ... I've only just turned 57 and can verify just what a strenuous climb is required to get to FF upper, I'm willing to bet some of the older FF users will find the climb next to impossible. I don't accept 'the lift isn't fit for purpose anyway' reason for this .... if that's the case get it fixed or get it replaced.

BTG is a huge bar and is extremely popular with fans .... I would frankly be astonished if Hibs do not replace it. The idea was to maximize use of "under used parts of the stadium" not to deprive fans of facilities they already use within the stadium in order to push community engagement projects.

BTG has its faults, but the main one is its popularity which means you cant get a seat if you turn up at any time after 1:30pm ..... its one of the reasons I stopped going there, along with plastic glasses and the trek required to go for a fag. Even if Hibs found a way to keep it open on matchdays it clearly seems that it would be smaller than it is now and there would be no access to it for disabled fans, both of which would be entirely unacceptable.

If BTG is to be replaced both the west and south stands are a no go as far as I can see, where in the west would there be room for a new bar anything like the size of BTG? ........ The south is too close to the away fans entrance, I doubt the police would fail to object to a licence for a supporters bar in that part of the stadium, at least not for home fans.

That leaves the east stand ... there is scope to build a new bar there by adding a first floor, but any bar would have to be at least as big, in fact bigger, than the existing BTG ... that way hopefully more folk could get a seat. It would have to be more Hibbyfied than the current BTG too, which if you didn't know was part of ER stadium would be hard to associate with the club ... where are the pictures of Hibs heroes, celebrating Hibs fans or even the clubs badge in the current bar? ..... it sure needs them?

But then what about the cost? ....... If Hibs are going to stump up to fit out the east, which would require new stairways, entrances, definitely a lift, new windows facing out the back, bars and of course the new floor itself ... then in order to facilitate the NHS hub in the FF Hibs wouldn't just be giving away facilities for free, they would be paying a fortune to give them away.

Whatever is going on its getting near time now where Hibs are going to have to give fans an idea of what the hell the end game is, especially now that they have got to the stage of inconveniencing supporters, how many supporters that amounts to is immaterial. Hibs is a football club and nothing they do should impact on the people that give it life, IMO that line has already been crossed with the lift issue, reducing the size and access for the disabled to BTG would be unacceptable ..... getting rid of BTG and failing to replace it at all would be utterly unforgivable in my opinion and make an utter mockery of this particular 'community' project.

The Hibernian community in the form of the clubs active support comes first before ANYTHING now and always, do not mess with it ..... over to you Leeann

Spot on, and the fact that plans are apparently at such an advanced stage, yet despite all the avenues of communication open to then, the club have left us supporters in the dark as to what's actually going on is totally unacceptable.

[Peevemor]

I think people are over reacting to this and moaning about stuff they know nothing about.

Hibs have managed to entirely rebuild the stadium, including various function suites, offices, etc., without falling foul of the disabled access regs. Does anyone really believe that these issues aren't being addressed?

If the new health hub is being put under the FF stand as opposed to elsewhere, there will be a good reason for it.

If BTG is to be relocated then it will be accessible and, given the progress that's been made recently in suppporter relations, I'd be surprised if it's not an improvement on the existing set-up.

I sympathise with those affected by the lift/FF upper issue, but why not wait and see what's being proposed before going off on one? Sometimes you have to "take one for the team"

[Sir David Gray]

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I think people are over reacting to this and moaning about stuff they know nothing about.

Hibs have managed to entirely rebuild the stadium, including various function suites, offices, etc., without falling foul of the disabled access regs. Does anyone really believe that these issues aren't being addressed?

If the new health hub is being put under the FF stand as opposed to elsewhere, there will be a good reason for it.

If BTG is to be relocated then it will be accessible and, given the progress that's been made recently in suppporter relations, I'd be surprised if it's not an improvement on the existing set-up.

I sympathise with those affected by the lift/FF upper issue, but why not wait and see what's being proposed before going off on one? Sometimes you have to "take one for the team"

What does "take one for the team" mean?

This proposal means that an area of the stadium which is currently fully accessible to all is going to be inaccessible to those with mobility issues from next season.

That appears to be a fact unless I'm missing something and if that is the case then I find that extremely poor, particularly since the decision looks like it's already been made with little to no engagement between the club and the supporters beforehand.

[BSEJVT]

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"The whole thing is a mess and quite how Charlene thinks playing the populist card with the support as voting comes to and end is going to translate into a working relationship with the board she us criticising escapes me

"


I would some what agree with this trait of thinking?

This has been stated as being the final part of the partnership being put in place, but i am unsure if the poster has done any investigation in to the subject herself other than just popping up here and leaving an open question

It is just typical that the post started asking about lift access and ends up all about where the bar is being put?

Somewhere in between I hope there is an answer to her question that can be put to the board to answer?[/QUOTE]

I hope that if Charlene does win a seat that she begins to understand the doctrine of Corporate responsibility.

At the moment she is outside the board criticising everything which is always an easier job than being inside the board making tough but imperfect decisions and then sitting back and taking the flak.

Charlene fires off like a loose cannon without apparently ever taking the time to gather the facts and look at the wider picture of what the club may be trying to achieve and within what constraints. I have my doubts whether she would be able to withstand that criticism without some ill advised retort.

To call some of her ill conceived posts on here shameless vote gathering would be underplaying their intention.

I have been pretty critical of the whole charade as IMO it doesn't and can never work. Frank & Amit have IMO done sterling work, but its not the work I thought they were recruited for.

I wouldn't be unhappy if the idea were consigned to the bin after the new incumbents have served their term.

[Peevemor]

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What does "take one for the team" mean?

This proposal means that an area of the stadium which is currently fully accessible to all is going to be inaccessible to those with mobility issues from next season.

That appears to be a fact unless I'm missing something and if that is the case then I find that extremely poor, particularly since the decision looks like it's already been made with little to no engagement between the club and the supporters beforehand.

If the decision has been made, do you think it's one that's been taken lightly? If, for whatever reason, there is no option but to locate health hub under the FF (and barring access to the lift on match days) then no amount of fan consultation will change that.

On looking here (excellent site by the way!)

http://www.hdsa.org.uk/accessibility...e-north-stand/

There are 16 wheelchair places in the East, 14 in the West and 11 in the FF - only 3 of which are in the upper section.

As I already said, I do sympathise with those that may have to sit elsewhere (obviously not just wheelchair users), but do you think it's reasonable to block a worthy community project for the sake of 3 wheelchair places, when there are already 38 elsewhere?

[macca70]

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"


I would some what agree with this trait of thinking?

This has been stated as being the final part of the partnership being put in place, but i am unsure if the poster has done any investigation in to the subject herself other than just popping up here and leaving an open question

It is just typical that the post started asking about lift access and ends up all about where the bar is being put?

Somewhere in between I hope there is an answer to her question that can be put to the board to answer?

I hope that if Charlene does win a seat that she begins to understand the doctrine of Corporate responsibility.

At the moment she is outside the board criticising everything which is always an easier job than being inside the board making tough but imperfect decisions and then sitting back and taking the flak.

Charlene fires off like a loose cannon without apparently ever taking the time to gather the facts and look at the wider picture of what the club may be trying to achieve and within what constraints. I have my doubts whether she would be able to withstand that criticism without some ill advised retort.

To call some of her ill conceived posts on here shameless vote gathering would be underplaying their intention.

I have been pretty critical of the whole charade as IMO it doesn't and can never work. Frank & Amit have IMO done sterling work, but its not the work I thought they were recruited for.

I wouldn't be unhappy if the idea were consigned to the bin after the new incumbents have served their term.[/QUOTE]

But I thought the role of the fans rep was exactly this, mingle with fans using various methods of communication, not disputing what Amit and Frank do but only time we have heard from them in 2 years is now at reelection time.

The purpose of the fans rep is to do exactly what Charlene has done here, highlight issues affecting the fans/club, gauge fan opinion so it can be taken to a board meeting. Not to sit cosy in a board meeting blending into the background eating tea & scones and pitching up on match days with a club suit and tie on!!

[macca70]

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If the decision has been made, do you think it's one that's been taken lightly? If, for whatever reason, there is no option but to locate health hub under the FF (and barring access to the lift on match days) then no amount of fan consultation will change that.

On looking here (excellent site by the way!)

http://www.hdsa.org.uk/accessibility...e-north-stand/

There are 16 wheelchair places in the East, 14 in the West and 11 in the FF - only 3 of which are in the upper section.

As I already said, I do sympathise with those that may have to sit elsewhere (obviously not just wheelchair users), but do you think it's reasonable to block a worthy community project for the sake of 3 wheelchair places, when there are already 38 elsewhere?

What is the community project? I think this is the issue, we haven't been given any informations, maybe if folk were told they would be more sympathetic. the primary function of the stadium is to facilitate the club and more importantly the paying fans and community facilities shouldn't be at the detriment of season ticket holders

[Sir David Gray]

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If the decision has been made, do you think it's one that's been taken lightly? If, for whatever reason, there is no option but to locate health hub under the FF (and barring access to the lift on match days) then no amount of fan consultation will change that.

On looking here (excellent site by the way!)

http://www.hdsa.org.uk/accessibility...e-north-stand/

There are 16 wheelchair places in the East, 14 in the West and 11 in the FF - only 3 of which are in the upper section.

As I already said, I do sympathise with those that may have to sit elsewhere (obviously not just wheelchair users), but do you think it's reasonable to block a worthy community project for the sake of 3 wheelchair places, when there are already 38 elsewhere?

I would like to have seen the club communicating with those it will affect prior to making any definite decisions. As you've admitted yourself, it doesn't just affect the 3 fans in wheelchairs who use this section.

If, after having those discussions, an agreement was made on the way forward between all parties then fair enough but it doesn't look like that's happened.

Also some of those wheelchair spaces are at ground level and I know from personal experience that I wouldn't be happy to move from a seat in the upper section of the FF stand to one at ground level.

[Real Emerald]

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If the decision has been made, do you think it's one that's been taken lightly? If, for whatever reason, there is no option but to locate health hub under the FF (and barring access to the lift on match days) then no amount of fan consultation will change that.

On looking here (excellent site by the way!)

http://www.hdsa.org.uk/accessibility...e-north-stand/

There are 16 wheelchair places in the East, 14 in the West and 11 in the FF - only 3 of which are in the upper section.

As I already said, I do sympathise with those that may have to sit elsewhere (obviously not just wheelchair users), but do you think it's reasonable to block a worthy community project for the sake of 3 wheelchair places, when there are already 38 elsewhere?

But why should a health hub come before supporters facilities? If that's the case you could build a health centre and a Lidl and have the disused space used 7 days a week. The priority has to be the fans and the football club. I have no problem using unused parts of the stadium for these things but this seems a bit odd. It's also not just people in wheelchairs who need to use the lift either. Them and the friends they go with and have done for years!

[ColinNish]

Is it just me or do folk come on here, only read the opening post then fire in with a reply/moan? Numerous times posters have asked "why's the lift been closed", "why can't it be open on matchdays" etc etc, with reasons being given but they still keep asking. Folk moaning about where's BTG gonna go, I'm no happy if it's gonna shut.

Moaning for moanings sake imo.

Someone else mentioned Hibs "giving" the FF area to the NHS health hub. I'd be very surprised at that. AFAIK the "BTG" bar will be relocated. Whether that is put in the West, in the East or (as I have heard) built in the waste ground between East and FF.

I feel sorry for the folk that use the lift and the inconvenience this is going to cause them. But change is good, you can't sit still in this day and age and the club have to evolve and find new revenue streams.

[Sir David Gray]

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Is it just me or do folk come on here, only read the opening post then fire in with a reply/moan? Numerous times posters have asked "why's the lift been closed", "why can't it be open on matchdays" etc etc, with reasons being given but they still keep asking. Folk moaning about where's BTG gonna go, I'm no happy if it's gonna shut.

Moaning for moanings sake imo.

Someone else mentioned Hibs "giving" the FF area to the NHS health hub. I'd be very surprised at that. AFAIK the "BTG" bar will be relocated. Whether that is put in the West, in the East or (as I have heard) built in the waste ground between East and FF.

I feel sorry for the folk that use the lift and the inconvenience this is going to cause them. But change is good, you can't sit still in this day and age and the club have to evolve and find new revenue streams.

It's easy to make comments like that when it's going to have absolutely no affect on you.

[CapitalGreen]

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But why should a health hub come before supporters facilities? If that's the case you could build a health centre and a Lidl and have the disused space used 7 days a week. The priority has to be the fans and the football club. I have no problem using unused parts of the stadium for these things but this seems a bit odd. It's also not just people in wheelchairs who need to use the lift either. Them and the friends they go with and have done for years!

What if the income from having the Health Hub located in North stand funds the further improvement of supporters facilities?

[Real Emerald]

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What if the income from having the Health Hub located in North stand funds the further improvement of supporters facilities?

I've no idea but the income may also fall if supporters stop going because they've lost their facilities.

I may be wrong here but I don't think Hibs are making any money from the NHS hub. I thought it was more of a goodwill gesture for the community from the club?

[blackpoolhibs]

Nobody likes change, but it's inevitable. I loved it when the local shop was open, but it closed and i have to go a little bit further for a pint of milk and a loaf of bread.

There will be a seat somewhere else in the ground where anyone who's affected by this can sit, and if there's another place built to have a beer before the game then great, if not then we will just have to make other arrangements.

How did folk manage before BTG was built?

[Real Emerald]

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Nobody likes change, but it's inevitable. I loved it when the local shop was open, but it closed and i have to go a little bit further for a pint of milk and a loaf of bread.

There will be a seat somewhere else in the ground where anyone who's affected by this can sit, and if there's another place built to have a beer before the game then great, if not then we will just have to make other arrangements.

How did folk manage before BTG was built?

I went to the Coopers Rest, now closed, then the Albion Bar, now closed, then the Loch Inn, now closed. Maybe have to sit in the Health Hub pre match from now on, which may not be a bad thing! 😊

The health hub may serve a better pint!

[Billy Whizz]

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I've no idea but the income may also fall if supporters stop going because they've lost their facilities.

I may be wrong here but I don't think Hibs are making any money from the NHS hub. I thought it was more of a goodwill gesture for the community from the club?

Maybe no rent, but they may be able to safe money on business rates

[ColinNish]

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It's easy to make comments like that when it's going to have absolutely no affect on you.

How do you know whether it affects me at not? It does affect me, but I'm not gonna sit at my keyboard and blooming moan about it. It's happening, accept it. Change is good. It's not like there aren't other places disabled supporters can sit.

[FranckSuzy]

After reading this thread, IMHO, the main 'gripe' appears to be that some fans who may be affected by this change do not feel they have been consulted properly and have found out about the proposals 'by accident'. I would have hoped, given the advanced stage these plans seem to be at, that this would have been a priority for the Club and hope it will be rectified sharpish so it puts their minds at ease and a suitable compromise can be found

[BSEJVT]

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I hope that if Charlene does win a seat that she begins to understand the doctrine of Corporate responsibility.

At the moment she is outside the board criticising everything which is always an easier job than being inside the board making tough but imperfect decisions and then sitting back and taking the flak.

Charlene fires off like a loose cannon without apparently ever taking the time to gather the facts and look at the wider picture of what the club may be trying to achieve and within what constraints. I have my doubts whether she would be able to withstand that criticism without some ill advised retort.

To call some of her ill conceived posts on here shameless vote gathering would be underplaying their intention.

I have been pretty critical of the whole charade as IMO it doesn't and can never work. Frank & Amit have IMO done sterling work, but its not the work I thought they were recruited for.

I wouldn't be unhappy if the idea were consigned to the bin after the new incumbents have served their term.

But I thought the role of the fans rep was exactly this, mingle with fans using various methods of communication, not disputing what Amit and Frank do but only time we have heard from them in 2 years is now at reelection time.

The purpose of the fans rep is to do exactly what Charlene has done here, highlight issues affecting the fans/club, gauge fan opinion so it can be taken to a board meeting. Not to sit cosy in a board meeting blending into the background eating tea & scones and pitching up on match days with a club suit and tie on!![/QUOTE]


Sorry the quotes thingy is all over the place at the minute!

The Fans Rep remit as I understand it is to highlight issues brought to her by the fans, not to run and publicise their individual agendas

Charlene seems to be taking them to another level of her own back

Whether anyone likes it or not there are protocols to be followed

Imagine you are the current executive board, how are you going to feel about the possibility of one of the board, running their own Agenda and blabbering off about a'thing and any'thing

In the olden days in many industries management and unions hated each other but they found a way to work together for the common good.

I sit on the board of our parent company and when I have a point to male I make it and forcibly

What I don't do is criticise the rest of the board publicly because they believe a different approach is needed.

I certainly wouldn't do it without having an in depth knowledge of the subject matter and the considerations reached in the decision.

I suspect if I did my credibility wouldn't last long, which is where I am with Charlene.

[ColinNish]

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Sorry the quotes thingy is all over the place at the minute!

The Fans Rep remit as I understand it is to highlight issues brought to her by the fans, not to run and publicise their individual agendas

Charlene seems to be taking them to another level of her own back

Whether anyone likes it or not there are protocols to be followed

Imagine you are the current executive board, how are you going to feel about the possibility of one of the board, running their own Agenda and blabbering off about a'thing and any'thing

In the olden days in many industries management and unions hated each other but they found a way to work together for the common good.

I sit on the board of our parent company and when I have a point to male I make it and forcibly

What I don't do is criticise the rest of the board publicly because they believe a different approach is needed.

I certainly wouldn't do it without having an in depth knowledge of the subject matter and the considerations reached in the decision.

I suspect if I did my credibility wouldn't last long, which is where I am with Charlene.

She's no half ruffled some feathers on here with her opening post.

[Tamhere1875]

Would you rather the club used the lifts knowing that they where not working right ( lift engineers have been in to look and sort them over the past few months 6 times) or just let them be used and put people's safety at risk. The lady who started this post should get her facts right before coming on here and posting stuff that's far from the truth as she has done a few times. BTW it was nice to see at least one of the candidates for the fans rep was at Paisley last night.

[HappyAsHellas]

The only thing on this thread that really surprises me is the fact that we have wheelchair users in the upper level of the FF. What would happen in an emergency situation when the lift was not allowed to be used? An elderly relative was wheelchair bound for years, and I can't think of a venue be it theatre, cinema or whatever when she could go upstairs.