hibs.net Messageboard

Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Scottish Budget

  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,930

    Scottish Budget

    Interesting that there is no thread on this.

    Aside from the usual comedy capers from our politicians and hyperbolic statements (Murdo Fraser taking the dubious honour there with his lentil sentence) this surely has to be seen as a landmark day for Scotland.

    We are now officially the highest taxed area of the UK from an Income Tax perspective with the potential for that divide to grow (Labour and the Greens seem perfectly happy to tax more than what was agreed).

    I see this a very significant and the start of a divergence of Scotland from rUK. Quite whether the population of Scotland will like the concept of being taxed more and see the benefit or otherwise of that could be a real driver over the long term for Indy support (both for and against).

    Personally of course you are not going to get agreement from me on the continued fiscal drag of the 40% band and loved the who cares it's only 350,000 people comments from some of its supporters in the political ranks yesterday but it's the principle that interests me most and what journey might now follow now that the path has been set.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member Hibs Class's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    5,092
    I think the likelihood of this was trailed so much that it was no surprise yesterday, and in some respects the surprise may be that it has taken so long for Holyrood to use its tax powers to differentiate. The positioning of it was the usual "these people can afford to pay" and "no-one will pay more". Will be interesting to see how it develops over the longer term.
    ​#PERSEVERED


  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,070
    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting that there is no thread on this.

    Aside from the usual comedy capers from our politicians and hyperbolic statements (Murdo Fraser taking the dubious honour there with his lentil sentence) this surely has to be seen as a landmark day for Scotland.

    We are now officially the highest taxed area of the UK from an Income Tax perspective with the potential for that divide to grow (Labour and the Greens seem perfectly happy to tax more than what was agreed).

    I see this a very significant and the start of a divergence of Scotland from rUK. Quite whether the population of Scotland will like the concept of being taxed more and see the benefit or otherwise of that could be a real driver over the long term for Indy support (both for and against).

    Personally of course you are not going to get agreement from me on the continued fiscal drag of the 40% band and loved the who cares it's only 350,000 people comments from some of its supporters in the political ranks yesterday but it's the principle that interests me most and what journey might now follow now that the path has been set.
    Your obsession with tax bewilders me.

    Go beyond tax and have a look at the bigger picture (i.e. - no student tuition fees, free prescriptions)

    What's more, a decent place to stay and a good quality of life might be a consideration?

    If 8-00 a week is a problem for someone in the top tax bracket, their priorities are all wrong.

  5. #4
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gate 38
    Posts
    7,614
    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting that there is no thread on this.

    Aside from the usual comedy capers from our politicians and hyperbolic statements (Murdo Fraser taking the dubious honour there with his lentil sentence) this surely has to be seen as a landmark day for Scotland.

    We are now officially the highest taxed area of the UK from an Income Tax perspective with the potential for that divide to grow (Labour and the Greens seem perfectly happy to tax more than what was agreed).

    I see this a very significant and the start of a divergence of Scotland from rUK. Quite whether the population of Scotland will like the concept of being taxed more and see the benefit or otherwise of that could be a real driver over the long term for Indy support (both for and against).

    Personally of course you are not going to get agreement from me on the continued fiscal drag of the 40% band and loved the who cares it's only 350,000 people comments from some of its supporters in the political ranks yesterday but it's the principle that interests me most and what journey might now follow now that the path has been set.
    I was surprised there wasn't one, too! Glad you've started one.

    Well, I think one of the critical things you've mentioned there is that people see that any tax rise can be seen as beneficial.

    In terms of whether people will mind that Scotland is taxed more than other parts of rUK, I think we live in interesting times. We are constantly bombarded with messages in the media about about cuts, NHS/Police underfunding etc etc etc.

    Fact is that at some point, the population has to realise that if they want all of this and more, they need to pay more than they have been. Sometimes, the price of honesty for politicians will be votes, but I don't think they'll lose that many for this.

    All the parties are guilty of avoiding truths with the electorate about how they might make money go further without putting up taxes. It's a fools errand, unless you are a Tory and you want to dismantle the state to reduce taxation.

    As the cost of delivery of services increases, the budget has stayed the same - something has to give. You cannot make more on less - you can only water the soup for so long.

    As a 40% payer myself, I don't really mind. Seriously, if you're in that demographic will you really miss 20-30 a month? I don't mean to sound blasee (however that is spelled) but some of the middle class histrionics is actually pretty insulting to people's intelligence. Very self indulgent.

    It's not like people in that bracket will be considering whether to eat, keep the heating on or afford their taxes. I am very fortunate not to have been in that position. But people at the other end of the income spectrum have been battered by austerity and have had to make real choices like that.

    HOWEVER, all that comes back to my earlier point: people will expect to see a benefit from it and I suppose it's part of the growth of the Scottish Parliament that a government will start to be held directly accountable for the product of their taxation policies.

    The events of the past few months have required people to sit up and start paying attention. It's no bad thing, in my book.

    I was also delighted with the Greens intervention.
    Last edited by steakbake; 03-02-2017 at 01:00 PM.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,196
    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting that there is no thread on this.

    Aside from the usual comedy capers from our politicians and hyperbolic statements (Murdo Fraser taking the dubious honour there with his lentil sentence) this surely has to be seen as a landmark day for Scotland.

    We are now officially the highest taxed area of the UK from an Income Tax perspective with the potential for that divide to grow (Labour and the Greens seem perfectly happy to tax more than what was agreed).

    I see this a very significant and the start of a divergence of Scotland from rUK. Quite whether the population of Scotland will like the concept of being taxed more and see the benefit or otherwise of that could be a real driver over the long term for Indy support (both for and against).

    Personally of course you are not going to get agreement from me on the continued fiscal drag of the 40% band and loved the who cares it's only 350,000 people comments from some of its supporters in the political ranks yesterday but it's the principle that interests me most and what journey might now follow now that the path has been set.
    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Your obsession with tax bewilders me.

    Go beyond tax and have a look at the bigger picture (i.e. - no student tuition fees, free prescriptions)

    What's more, a decent place to stay and a good quality of life might be a consideration?

    If 8-00 a week is a problem for someone in the top tax bracket, their priorities are all wrong.


    I'd rather live in a country that looks after people at the lower end of the tax spectrum than the higher end.

    Median wage in Scotland is around 27k. It looks like they've got it about right.

    Glad the Greens came in for a deal. It showed that the Scot Gov were/are prepared to compromise.

    Some of the Tories/Labour were beilin yesterday.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,930
    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Your obsession with tax bewilders me.

    Go beyond tax and have a look at the bigger picture (i.e. - no student tuition fees, free prescriptions)

    What's more, a decent place to stay and a good quality of life might be a consideration?

    If 8-00 a week is a problem for someone in the top tax bracket, their priorities are all wrong.
    Ha ha I'm not obsessed with tax but it is kind of key for a government and its spending.

    My point is that for the very first time there is daylight between Scotland and rUK in terms of a very fundamental taxation. That to me is a very interesting development and I'm interested to see if it is a thin end of a wedge, if the higher taxation can in any way be evidenced to be providing better outcomes for its citizens and generally if this is the start of a wider divergence.

    You can't really move beyond taxation and look at prescriptions etc as the 'free' prescriptions are paid for by taxation...how much a government taxes and then spends is pretty fundamental stuff and we now have a situation where Scotland can be described as the highest taxed part of the UK. Rightly or wrongly that will be a very influential statement.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,070
    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ha ha I'm not obsessed with tax but it is kind of key for a government and its spending.

    My point is that for the very first time there is daylight between Scotland and rUK in terms of a very fundamental taxation. That to me is a very interesting development and I'm interested to see if it is a thin end of a wedge, if the higher taxation can in any way be evidenced to be providing better outcomes for its citizens and generally if this is the start of a wider divergence.

    You can't really move beyond taxation and look at prescriptions etc as the 'free' prescriptions are paid for by taxation...how much a government taxes and then spends is pretty fundamental stuff and we now have a situation where Scotland can be described as the highest taxed part of the UK. Rightly or wrongly that will be a very influential statement.
    OK preoccupied with tax

    The second part in bold is a Tory myth. Only around 14% of taxpayers in Scotland will pay more tax than their counterparts in rUK and, of course, this does not take account of anything but income tax.

    For what it's worth, you can't just ignore free prescriptions and the like. It's all part of the package (see past your preoccupation again).

    Is an individual in the 40% tax band in Scotland, with a child at Edinburgh University, better off in Scotland or England?
    Last edited by allmodcons; 03-02-2017 at 04:45 PM.

  9. #8
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    I still live in hope.
    Posts
    28,013
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd rather live in a country that looks after people at the lower end of the tax spectrum than the higher end.

    Median wage in Scotland is around 27k. It looks like they've got it about right.

    Glad the Greens came in for a deal. It showed that the Scot Gov were/are prepared to compromise.

    Some of the Tories/Labour were beilin yesterday.
    Grown up politics from the Greens. Thank goodness.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member allmodcons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,070
    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Grown up politics from the Greens. Thank goodness.
    "Lentil munching sandal wearing" grown ups.

    Can we all agree that Murdo Fraser is a blue nosed p**ck.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,196
    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Grown up politics from the Greens. Thank goodness.
    Lentil munching, sandal wearing pwicks.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,930
    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "Lentil munching sandal wearing" grown ups.

    Can we all agree that Murdo Fraser is a blue nosed p**ck.
    Now that's definitely not up for debate!

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd rather live in a country that looks after people at the lower end of the tax spectrum than the higher end.

    Median wage in Scotland is around 27k. It looks like they've got it about right.

    Glad the Greens came in for a deal. It showed that the Scot Gov were/are prepared to compromise.

    Some of the Tories/Labour were beilin yesterday.
    I agree with what you say and the post you were replying to, but as someone who works with people at the poorer end of the scale, the lack of responsibility placed on some members of society to manage their finances more efficiently is bordering on criminal. Not everyone is the same I know, but the system needs to be adjusted not only from top down.

    Too much money is also wasted putting in place things which are nothing more than glorified hoops for the poor to jump through in order to get their hand out is costing us a fortune.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,930

    Scottish Budget

    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    OK preoccupied with tax

    The second part in bold is a Tory myth. Only around 14% of taxpayers in Scotland will pay more tax than their counterparts in rUK and, of course, this does not take account of anything but income tax.

    For what it's worth, you can't just ignore free prescriptions and the like. It's all part of the package (see past your preoccupation again).

    Is an individual in the 40% tax band in Scotland, with a child at Edinburgh University, better off in Scotland or England?
    Yeah well I'm not going to argue about that...I would say it's a healthy interest in just how much the state takes from me (and others!), how it then spends it and the impact that has on me and the nation as a whole, but you can call that a preoccupation if you so desire 🤣

    It's not really a Tory myth though...anyone who is now in the 40% band (or will be in, there's that fiscal drag again!) will suffer higher direct taxation on their income than anyone else in the U.K. The greens and Labour are wanting even more so the tone is set...add that into the already significantly higher per head public expenditure in Scotland and you have a rather interesting scenario.

    As I said I'm not really gonna bang on about my own thoughts (honest guv!) as anyone who has spent anytime on here will know them already but I am curious as to where this divergence will lead and what the long term implications on the SG and Indy might be. It's going to be very hard now not to agree that an Indy Scotland will almost certainly be a place of higher direct taxation (it already is!) and that is a difficult situation when trying to win votes.

    As for your last question...most probably Scotland but I'm sure you can come up with multiple scenarios where the net contributions people make to the state vary widely depending on circumstance the fact remains that any 40% tax payer is now taxed more here than elsewhere.
    Last edited by RyeSloan; 03-02-2017 at 08:03 PM.

  15. #14
    Testimonial Due Hibby Bairn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,034
    I don't mind it. In fact I am all for it. But I think it was done a bit cloak and daggerish.

    I think if they fostered an open and honest debate most people at the so called "top" end would be prepared to pay more. I didn't know about this until it was on the news. Fair enough but I think it should been put out there in the open first.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved