Hello from Charlene

[northstandhibby]

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Short update on this, the club have confirmed that there will not be a way for fans watching online to submit questions. However, more than happy to take any questions you may have here.

Cheers,

Charlene

I would simply like to wish you good luck on being elected and that you appear to be a communicative and suitable candidate.

All the very best.

Glory Glory

[Johnny Clash]

I'm stuck in London and I can't make hustings so would be good to read any feedback after tomorrow nights session.

Having read this thread my main point would be about the general role of the supporters reps in meetings with the board. I believe the two reps responsibilities should be to argue as strongly as possible for fans - to the overall benefit of the club and drive forward change.

I appreciate it's not easy working out a true consensus on many issues . The standing area debate and the location of the singing section are just a couple of examples of split opinion. However, where it's possible to identify issues that the majority of fans are behind then those issues should be argued for - even if the reps themselves may have a different personal opinion.

I'm sure I read some comments from a candidate suggesting some ideas would not be acceptable to the board so there's no point pursuing them ?? but that's exactly my point. The reps are there to challenge things on behalf of the support and bring in changes as a result of fan initiatives. Not just to agree with the other members of the board!

It's not about being considered a threat - as a previous poster refered to - it's about being effective and sometimes that means you have to argue for change and not just go with everyone else sat around the boardroom table.

The supporters who organise the current singing section/the drum/section 43 Have complained in the past that they feel ignored by our own officialdom. Apologies if I've picked that up wrong but if that is indeed the case then that's one issue that needs addressing and communication improving.

Final point... I do hope whoever wins doesn't go near any of the dreaded 'management speak' which really does give me the boke!

[traceyhibs]

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I'm stuck in London and I can't make hustings so would be good to read any feedback after tomorrow nights session.

Having read this thread my main point would be about the general role of the supporters reps in meetings with the board. I believe the two reps responsibilities should be to argue as strongly as possible for fans - to the overall benefit of the club and drive forward change.

I appreciate it's not easy working out a true consensus on many issues . The standing area debate and the location of the singing section are just a couple of examples of split opinion. However, where it's possible to identify issues that the majority of fans are behind then those issues should be argued for - even if the reps themselves may have a different personal opinion.

I'm sure I read some comments from a candidate suggesting some ideas would not be acceptable to the board so there's no point pursuing them ?? but that's exactly my point. The reps are there to challenge things on behalf of the support and bring in changes as a result of fan initiatives. Not just to agree with the other members of the board!

It's not about being considered a threat - as a previous poster refered to - it's about being effective and sometimes that means you have to argue for change and not just go with everyone else sat around the boardroom table.

The supporters who organise singing/the drum/section 43 Have complained in the past that they feel ignored by our own officialdom. Apologies if I've picked that up wrong but if that is indeed the case then that's one issue that needs addressing and communication improving.

Final point... I do hope whoever wins doesn't go near any of the dreaded 'management speak' which really does give me the boke!

Hi there its Tracey,

Totally agree as we are there to represent the fans. There are going to be things that won't be acceptable to the Board but that's for us to argue and find that out. I am part of the Working Together Group that is looking at Atmosphere and we will be including Section 43 with this as they are a massive part of the atmosphere, and I believe Amit has been in touch with a couple of the lads. We aren't going to agree with everyone's opinions but we have to see past that also.

Sorry hope Charlene doesn't think I'm hijacking this but thought I could touch on the Section 43 issue.

Thank you

Tracey


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[Johnny Clash]

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Hi there its Tracey,

Totally agree as we are there to represent the fans. There are going to be things that won't be acceptable to the Board but that's for us to argue and find that out. I am part of the Working Together Group that is looking at Atmosphere and we will be including Section 43 with this as they are a massive part of the atmosphere, and I believe Amit has been in touch with a couple of the lads. We aren't going to agree with everyone's opinions but we have to see past that also.

Sorry hope Charlene doesn't think I'm hijacking this but thought I could touch on the Section 43 issue.

Thank you

Tracey


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Thanks for reply and sorry if I've missed a general thread about Supporters Reps ... I take your point about this thread being set up by one candidate.

Re things not being acceptable to board - i know what you mean but I think the creation of fans reps was a positive development by our club to actually help challenge the board on issues the support considered necessary . Relationships are good now because we won the cup and looks like we are heading for promotion. One big happy Hibee family, but January 2015 was a different story. Hands On Hibs, calls to sack the board, chairman etc all because a large part of our support felt ignored and the boardroom was making a mess of it.

So if I've got this right - the aftermath of all that energy was to create two Supporters' Reps positions to either sit on the board or at least to give the wider support a voice on the board? Instead of making our points in the car park outside ER we can now make them in the boardroom, type thing.

My reason for posting was really to underline that point - hoping that the two elected reps will see their role clearly, to take up issues that the board may very well be against and to ensure that the board responds to the support and never makes the mistake of disenfranchising the life blood of our club .

[C Feeney-Seale]

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I'm stuck in London and I can't make hustings so would be good to read any feedback after tomorrow nights session.

Having read this thread my main point would be about the general role of the supporters reps in meetings with the board. I believe the two reps responsibilities should be to argue as strongly as possible for fans - to the overall benefit of the club and drive forward change.

I appreciate it's not easy working out a true consensus on many issues . The standing area debate and the location of the singing section are just a couple of examples of split opinion. However, where it's possible to identify issues that the majority of fans are behind then those issues should be argued for - even if the reps themselves may have a different personal opinion.

I'm sure I read some comments from a candidate suggesting some ideas would not be acceptable to the board so there's no point pursuing them ?? but that's exactly my point. The reps are there to challenge things on behalf of the support and bring in changes as a result of fan initiatives. Not just to agree with the other members of the board!

It's not about being considered a threat - as a previous poster refered to - it's about being effective and sometimes that means you have to argue for change and not just go with everyone else sat around the boardroom table.

The supporters who organise the current singing section/the drum/section 43 Have complained in the past that they feel ignored by our own officialdom. Apologies if I've picked that up wrong but if that is indeed the case then that's one issue that needs addressing and communication improving.

Final point... I do hope whoever wins doesn't go near any of the dreaded 'management speak' which really does give me the boke!

Hi Johnny Clash,

I agree that establishing the true consensus will be difficult. On a lot of issues, this simply won't exist - we're a diverse group of fans. In that case, I think it's really important that the supporters reps go out and get a sense of the different opinions on the issue so that they can feed this into the board. This is why I want to see more being done to get views from a broader range of fans, and to share the finding of this with fans prior to board meetings. It means that, if successful, supporters can hold me to account on what I'm taking to the board, and will be able to see that this isn't just the views of a certain group of fans (or, even worse, just the personal view of the supporters rep as you suggest).

I definitely don't think the supporters reps should be filtering based on how the board will react - this doesn't do anyone any favours. We should be putting our energy into finding out how many supporters hold that view.

I'm not surprised if there is a feeling that some fans are being ignored - I don't think enough is being done to come back to fans after board meetings, and this is something I'd definitely like to do more of.

Cheers,

Charlene

[Eaststand]

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Hi Johnny Clash,

I agree that establishing the true consensus will be difficult. On a lot of issues, this simply won't exist - we're a diverse group of fans. In that case, I think it's really important that the supporters reps go out and get a sense of the different opinions on the issue so that they can feed this into the board. This is why I want to see more being done to get views from a broader range of fans, and to share the finding of this with fans prior to board meetings. It means that, if successful, supporters can hold me to account on what I'm taking to the board, and will be able to see that this isn't just the views of a certain group of fans (or, even worse, just the personal view of the supporters rep as you suggest).

I definitely don't think the supporters reps should be filtering based on how the board will react - this doesn't do anyone any favours. We should be putting our energy into finding out how many supporters hold that view.

I'm not surprised if there is a feeling that some fans are being ignored - I don't think enough is being done to come back to fans after board meetings, and this is something I'd definitely like to do more of.

Cheers,

Charlene

Hi Charlene, and greetings also to the other candidates who may be reading this thread.
I think your last paragraph pretty much sums it up for me. I voted last time for the 2 candidates who I expected to be establishing an online 2 way comunications process to deal with issues at our Club. I'm not convinced that my hopes were met, so, for all candidates reading this, you'll get my votes, and I suspect quite a few others, if you promise to improve supporter/club/board communication 👍

GGTTH

[C Feeney-Seale]

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Hi Charlene, and greetings also to the other candidates who may be reading this thread.
I think your last paragraph pretty much sums it up for me. I voted last time for the 2 candidates who I expected to be establishing an online 2 way comunications process to deal with issues at our Club. I'm not convinced that my hopes were met, so, for all candidates reading this, you'll get my votes, and I suspect quite a few others, if you promise to improve supporter/club/board communication 👍

GGTTH

Hi Eaststand,

I've outlined some of my proposals to do this in other posts in this thread. As a first step I want to get minutes after the board meetings shared online, but I also want to offer supporters a short video debrief. Of course, I'll be happy to discuss the meetings face to face as well, but I think it's really important to make the information available to everyone and not just those who happen to be in conversation with one of the reps.

I think this, along with sharing my preparation and summary of discussions that I've had with supporters before board meetings could really help to make communication more of a conversation.

Cheers,

Charlene

[bigwheel]

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Hi Eaststand,

I've outlined some of my proposals to do this in other posts in this thread. As a first step I want to get minutes after the board meetings shared online, but I also want to offer supporters a short video debrief. Of course, I'll be happy to discuss the meetings face to face as well, but I think it's really important to make the information available to everyone and not just those who happen to be in conversation with one of the reps.

I think this, along with sharing my preparation and summary of discussions that I've had with supporters before board meetings could really help to make communication more of a conversation.

Cheers,

Charlene

I can't imagine it being at all appropriate to share board minutes publicly ...there will be Many items which are commercially sensitive...

There will be of course a number of items where some summary or debrief would be very appropriate and helpful .

[C Feeney-Seale]

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I can't imagine it being at all appropriate to share board minutes publicly ...there will be Many items which are commercially sensitive...

There will be of course a number of items where some summary or debrief would be very appropriate and helpful .

Hi Bigwheel,

Of course there will be some parts of the board discussion that are commercially sensitive, but there is no reason why we can't have something coming out after the meetings. Other clubs around the UK are already doing this - like Carlisle United. So while there will be a limit on what can be shared with supporters, we definitely could be doing more than we are at present.

Cheers,

Charlene

[bigwheel]

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Hi Bigwheel,

Of course there will be some parts of the board discussion that are commercially sensitive, but there is no reason why we can't have something coming out after the meetings. Other clubs around the UK are already doing this - like Carlisle United. So while there will be a limit on what can be shared with supporters, we definitely could be doing more than we are at present.

Cheers,

Charlene

Cheers for the quick reply . I'm sure that is the case. For me , I don't really want to see board minutes - they are usually clipped summaries which lack the context on the subject . So whilst it might seem a good idea , in practise it's likely To create more questions than answers

I'd prefer more rounded updates on the topics that will be of interest to the fan base.

[Eaststand]

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Hi Eaststand,

I've outlined some of my proposals to do this in other posts in this thread. As a first step I want to get minutes after the board meetings shared online, but I also want to offer supporters a short video debrief. Of course, I'll be happy to discuss the meetings face to face as well, but I think it's really important to make the information available to everyone and not just those who happen to be in conversation with one of the reps.

I think this, along with sharing my preparation and summary of discussions that I've had with supporters before board meetings could really help to make communication more of a conversation.

Cheers,

Charlene

Thanks for the quick reply and I like what you're saying you'll do, so as far as im concerned, you're out in front of the pack at the minute 👍

GGTTH

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Thanks for the quick reply and I like what you're saying you'll do, so as far as im concerned, you're out in front of the pack at the minute 👍

GGTTH

With respect charlene, that is mental.

Board minutes will be, and should be, highly confidential and certainly not made public online.

There may ne scope for some sort of redacted version, but it would be so redacted as to make it worthless.

[C Feeney-Seale]

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With respect charlene, that is mental.

Board minutes will be, and should be, highly confidential and certainly not made public online.

There may ne scope for some sort of redacted version, but it would be so redacted as to make it worthless.

Like I've said above, other football clubs in the UK and overseas already make minutes available, as do other organisations, so I'd have to disagree that it's a 'mental' suggestion.

Sure, some of the discussion will not be released in the minutes, and I'm sure there will be a degree of censoring, but for a club that is taking steps towards fan ownership it seems crazy that we don't release anything, even if it is a sanitised version. Surely some dialogue is better than nothing?

Cheers,

Charlene

[CropleyWasGod]

Board minutes are part of the records of the company. As such, they are absolutely confidential.

I have been in situations where abridged versions have been made available to non-members. However, it caused more problems than solutions.

1. the Board, as a whole, have to agree that abridged minutes be issued.

2. those minutes become public domain documents. As such, they are available not just to fans, but the media and the public at large. Do we really want that?

3. who decides what goes in them, and how they are presented? That discussion, in itself, could be quite time-consuming.

4. as has been said, context of discussions is often omitted from minutes. As such, they can be open to misinterpretation. Abridged versions could be even more vulnerable to that.

[Lancs Harp]

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My problem with Pat Stanton is how is he going to represent the fans? Obviously he is a fan and a legend, but that doesn't qualify him for this role.

Totally agree.

We're electing a fans rep not a Hibs hall of fame.

[BSEJVT]

I have stayed out of this particular point but now the genie is out the bottle....

It is both unrealistic and completely unprofessional to consider publishing the board meeting minutes or even an extract of them and to be honest smacks of someone trying too hard to gain votes without engaging their brain.

Its also not at all what the Fans rep role is meant to be.

The fans neither need nor should be aware of everything that goes on at board level in the same way as employees shouldn't be aware of everything that is discussed at their company's board meetings.

The fans rep role is to gather the views of the fans on their burning issues and where appropriate report them to the board and then report back to the fans where possible.

Anything else is completely OTT and unwarranted and has certainly raised my concerns over Charlene's suitability for the role.

It shows an alarming naivety.

[Bostonhibby]

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Board minutes are part of the records of the company. As such, they are absolutely confidential.

I have been in situations where abridged versions have been made available to non-members. However, it caused more problems than solutions.

1. the Board, as a whole, have to agree that abridged minutes be issued.

2. those minutes become public domain documents. As such, they are available not just to fans, but the media and the public at large. Do we really want that?

3. who decides what goes in them, and how they are presented? That discussion, in itself, could be quite time-consuming.

4. as has been said, context of discussions is often omitted from minutes. As such, they can be open to misinterpretation. Abridged versions could be even more vulnerable to that.

I agree. part of the story creates speculation and that usually grows legs as well.

Which is essentially why I see a conflict between the desire of a fan who is representing the sole interests of fellow fans (to be full and frank with what they tell fans) and their overriding responsibilities and liabilities as board directors. Difficult to properly do when this particular role comes with a seat on a board.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I agree. part of the story creates speculation and that usually grows legs as well.

Which is essentially why I see a conflict between the desire of a fan who is representing the sole interests of fellow fans (to be full and frank with what they tell fans) and their overriding responsibilities and liabilities as board directors. Difficult to properly do when this particular role comes with a seat on a board.

That conflict is common, in many Board situations, not just in this one. It's not an easy one to manage.

However, the best people find a way.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Like I've said above, other football clubs in the UK and overseas already make minutes available, as do other organisations, so I'd have to disagree that it's a 'mental' suggestion.

Sure, some of the discussion will not be released in the minutes, and I'm sure there will be a degree of censoring, but for a club that is taking steps towards fan ownership it seems crazy that we don't release anything, even if it is a sanitised version. Surely some dialogue is better than nothing?

Cheers,

Charlene

Apologies, maybe a poor choice of language from me (i was thinking that i would probably get sacked if i suggested this aty work!)

Dialogue is positive of course, and i would agree that the fan reps shpuld be free to discuss certain agenda items with the fans. But agendas, minutes etc should be confidential, the media would make it unbearable.

[Bostonhibby]

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That conflict is common, in many Board situations, not just in this one. It's not an easy one to manage.

However, the best people find a way.

Been there. They often say there's no business quite like a football club!, and finding ways to put detail out that maybe shouldn't be out, into the public arena is something I'd rather not see.

[C Feeney-Seale]

At tonight's fan hustings, all 9 candidates have been asked to talk about how the will get views from supporters, and how they will communicate back to them as well. This is absolutely a key part of what the role is about, and it's a part I feel we have not made much progress in.

Minutes from a board meeting do not need to contain anything sensitive that would impact the club, or give hostile parties or the media something to jump on. They can still serve a purpose - to give supporters a flavour of the discussion, and to show that issues are being considered. I've not suggested that supporters can expect a blow by blow account of everything that's been said, by who in the meeting, but I totally disagree that there should be no feedback at all to fans.

I think there is clear demand among fans for more feedback, and his can be a part of that along with debriefs from the fan reps, and updates like blogs. It's not even a revolutionary suggestion, as I have pointed out other sports clubs already do this. I'm sure these clubs also have a more comprehensive set of minutes which remain private, but this is not a barrier. Fnas should be seeing something after board meetings when two of the positions are there to increase back and forward communication.

Cheers,

Charlene

[CropleyWasGod]

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At tonight's fan hustings, all 9 candidates have been asked to talk about how the will get views from supporters, and how they will communicate back to them as well. This is absolutely a key part of what the role is about, and it's a part I feel we have not made much progress in.


Minutes from a board meeting do not need to contain anything sensitive that would impact the club, or give hostile parties or the media something to jump on. They can still serve a purpose - to give supporters a flavour of the discussion, and to show that issues are being considered. I've not suggested that supporters can expect a blow by blow account of everything that's been said, by who in the meeting, but I totally disagree that there should be no feedback at all to fans.

I think there is clear demand among fans for more feedback, and his can be a part of that along with debriefs from the fan reps, and updates like blogs. It's not even a revolutionary suggestion, as I have pointed out other sports clubs already do this.

They may already do that, but how?

If elected, you will be faced with all of the concerns that I, and others, have raised. Those questions will be raised by your fellow Board members, who will almost certainly be resistant to your proposal. How would you deal with that resistance and, consequently, the concerns that have been raised?

[Johnny Clash]

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Hi Johnny Clash,

I agree that establishing the true consensus will be difficult. On a lot of issues, this simply won't exist - we're a diverse group of fans. In that case, I think it's really important that the supporters reps go out and get a sense of the different opinions on the issue so that they can feed this into the board. This is why I want to see more being done to get views from a broader range of fans, and to share the finding of this with fans prior to board meetings. It means that, if successful, supporters can hold me to account on what I'm taking to the board, and will be able to see that this isn't just the views of a certain group of fans (or, even worse, just the personal view of the supporters rep as you suggest).

I definitely don't think the supporters reps should be filtering based on how the board will react - this doesn't do anyone any favours. We should be putting our energy into finding out how many supporters hold that view.

I'm not surprised if there is a feeling that some fans are being ignored - I don't think enough is being done to come back to fans after board meetings, and this is something I'd definitely like to do more of.

Cheers,

Charlene

Thanks for your reply Charlene and I think it's good you clearly see Hibs as a club that wants to involve fans more and build a bigger profile in the community. We are not simply a Business. Those jumping up and down over your proposal to improve communication by letting us know relevant information from board meetings need to get a grip,

Most of us have no idea what gets discussed or how the board even works. We have a board of 9 - I assume the 7 non executive directors all get a vote? So our two reps could have a significant impact to change things for the better.

You've already made it clear the info you'd make available to the supporters would not be sensitive or damaging to the club so that would be welcomed by most. Those who do not want to know about what's getting discussed or agreed on our behalf need not read your postings,

[Bostonhibby]

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Thanks for your reply Charlene and I think it's good you clearly see Hibs as a club that wants to involve fans more and build a bigger profile in the community. We are not simply a Business. Those jumping up and down over your proposal to improve communication by letting us know relevant information from board meetings need to get a grip,

Most of us have no idea what gets discussed or how the board even works. We have a board of 9 - I assume the 7 non executive directors all get a vote? So our two reps could have a significant impact to change things for the better.

You've already made it clear the info you'd make available to the supporters would not be sensitive or damaging to the club so that would be welcomed by most. Those who do not want to know about what's getting discussed or agreed on our behalf need not read your postings,

Johnny

You won't find me jumping up and down - for a whole variety of reasons!

The problem is (and I am confident Candidates on here get it) that there are legal and often personal liabilities attached to being a company director - confidentiality legally prevents directors sharing a whole host of things - even those that are of interest to, or affect fans. Hibs don't make the law here, we just have to operate within it.

Somewhere up the thread I tried to highlight how the reps hands might be less tied if they were elected in similar fashion but not on the board - there's a down side to that as well of course over what they get to hear about, but they will still be able to feed everything in and share the feedback fully(?). I do agree re improving / formalising what does come out.

Either way, there's an impressive will to improve things so whatever we are presented with I'll be voting for whoever puts the fans interests first but has an eye on protecting the clubs wider position and good name as well.

[ekhibee]

My understanding was that any limited company is required to submit annual financial statements and annual company returns to the Register of Companies, so their financial accounts can be viewed at any time. As far as I was led to believe, they are legally required to do so under the Companies Act 2006. They are a matter of public record. So anybody should be able to examine the financial accounts of H.F.C. Holdings Limited. At the same time I appreciate why board minutes would not fall under this catagory, and should remain confidential, particularly with respect to personal issues that should remain within the boardroom.

[CropleyWasGod]

Just to muddy the waters a bit on the question of minutes, shareholders are entitled to view them at any time.

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[Liberal Hibby]

There are of course a variety of non-football enterprises where this tension between commercial confidence and wider accountability occurs. I have a bit of experience working with social housing businesses - many often set up by local authorities to own and manage their homes. These have elected tenant reps on their boards and often well developed structures below the board to represent tenants' wider interests, communicate business strategy and feedback views. I think it is an analagous situation to fan reps on the board at Hibs.

I understand we don't yet know how the election will be conducted or what the franchise is. So the issues is much wider than whether minutes of board meetings are publicised (bowdlerised or otherwise) - it is about putting in place long term structures to communicate with shareholders, season ticket holders and the wider fan base regularly and appropriately. And I'm glad Charlene has kicked off the debate.

[ancient hibee]

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At tonight's fan hustings, all 9 candidates have been asked to talk about how the will get views from supporters, and how they will communicate back to them as well. This is absolutely a key part of what the role is about, and it's a part I feel we have not made much progress in.

Minutes from a board meeting do not need to contain anything sensitive that would impact the club, or give hostile parties or the media something to jump on. They can still serve a purpose - to give supporters a flavour of the discussion, and to show that issues are being considered. I've not suggested that supporters can expect a blow by blow account of everything that's been said, by who in the meeting, but I totally disagree that there should be no feedback at all to fans.

I think there is clear demand among fans for more feedback, and his can be a part of that along with debriefs from the fan reps, and updates like blogs. It's not even a revolutionary suggestion, as I have pointed out other sports clubs already do this. I'm sure these clubs also have a more comprehensive set of minutes which remain private, but this is not a barrier. Fnas should be seeing something after board meetings when two of the positions are there to increase back and forward communication.

Cheers,

Charlene

So would your proposed minute be giving decisions made or would it contain detail of discussion and disagreement? Frankly the last thing this club needs is someone on the board telling fans "I tried to do this but they wouldn't let me."Good luck with your campaign.

[Peevemor]

I think what's important here is that Charlene is committed to reporting/publishing what she can. There will obviously be sensitive issues which will (and should) remain in the boardroom and I'd imagine that anything she does release will have to be okayed in advance by Leeann Dempster/the board, but I'm pretty sure that Amit could have done more in this respect over the past couple of years (and not just the last couple of weeks since the list of candidates has been announced).

As for Frank Dougan, not living in the UK, I've no idea how much he communicates.

[ronaldo7]

Having watched the hustings this evening, the Ladies have my votes. Well done to all candidates.

I look forward to Charlene taking "feedback" by the scruff of the neck, and giving the fans what they want.

Tracey spoke very well on the working together group, of which she's a member, and was the only one to mention kids and pricing.

Go get them Girls.