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  1. #61
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    Returned from Palestine last night, we were advised that we could not post anything on social media whilst there. I visited Ramallah and met with several NGOs including a group representing children who get arrested for throwing stones. The lawyer told us that 98% of the kids get convicted so they plea bargain and try get reduced sentences, usually 3 months. If they don't plead guilty they get a minimum of 12 months.
    I visited Hebron and seen how the city has been split in two. The settlers protected by the Israeli army have taken half the city. No Palestinian is allowed in the settlements. There are 600000 settlers now in the occupied Palestinian land. This is a breech of the Geneva convention. An occupying army are not permitted to move its people into the occupied land. It's now 50 years since the 6 day war and the Israeli government are taking over Palestine. They now control 42% of the land and have military control over the rest whenever they want.
    When in Jerusalem we went to the Aida refugee camp and Lajee Education centre. Check out the Lajee centres website. This was the centre the Green Brigade raise money for, 176000, they bought property and a garden to expand the centre.
    http://www.lajee.org/index.php

    I've returned shocked and saddened. It's an apartheid regime with total control by the Israeli government. They control everything from the roads, airport, water all the way through to the school curriculum. It's these reason why I support BDS(Boycott Disinvestment & Sanctions) https://bdsmovement.net and now can't see how a two state solution ever working.


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  3. #62
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    Who advised you not to post on social media and what would or could have happened if you did?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    Who advised you not to post on social media and what would or could have happened if you did?
    Our guides, they were worried we'd get picked up and deported. We even had too wipe our phones. It was scarey at times. When Hebron we were shouted at by settlers and comforted by soldiers because we were in the settlement with a Muslim. We were entitled to be there but they don't want anyone seeing what's happening.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Returned from Palestine last night, we were advised that we could not post anything on social media whilst there. I visited Ramallah and met with several NGOs including a group representing children who get arrested for throwing stones. The lawyer told us that 98% of the kids get convicted so they plea bargain and try get reduced sentences, usually 3 months. If they don't plead guilty they get a minimum of 12 months.
    I visited Hebron and seen how the city has been split in two. The settlers protected by the Israeli army have taken half the city. No Palestinian is allowed in the settlements. There are 600000 settlers now in the occupied Palestinian land. This is a breech of the Geneva convention. An occupying army are not permitted to move its people into the occupied land. It's now 50 years since the 6 day war and the Israeli government are taking over Palestine. They now control 42% of the land and have military control over the rest whenever they want.
    When in Jerusalem we went to the Aida refugee camp and Lajee Education centre. Check out the Lajee centres website. This was the centre the Green Brigade raise money for, 176000, they bought property and a garden to expand the centre.
    http://www.lajee.org/index.php

    I've returned shocked and saddened. It's an apartheid regime with total control by the Israeli government. They control everything from the roads, airport, water all the way through to the school curriculum. It's these reason why I support BDS(Boycott Disinvestment & Sanctions) https://bdsmovement.net and now can't see how a two state solution ever working.
    You'll be voting Yes now that you understand the term 'occupation'.

    On a serious note, sounds like a great experience (albeit scary and sad). I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians and think what goes on over there is a disgrace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allmodcons View Post
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    You'll be voting Yes now that you understand the term 'occupation'.

    On a serious note, sounds like a great experience (albeit scary and sad). I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians and think what goes on over there is a disgrace.
    Cheers mate, it's unreal but not that the UN have said it's an apartheid regime maybe more will be done. Surprisingly most Palestinians just want peace and freedom to move around their own country.

    Still a long way of yes but that's another discussion 😄

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Cheers mate, it's unreal but not that the UN have said it's an apartheid regime maybe more will be done. Surprisingly most Palestinians just want peace and freedom to move around their own country.

    Still a long way of yes but that's another discussion 😄
    did you find it was worse than you had anticipated before you went?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ACLeith View Post
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    did you find it was worse than you had anticipated before you went?
    Don't want to speak for Lucky, but I'll bet it was worse than he expected.

    It's not until to see something terrible like this close up that you get your eyes opened as to the scale of the problem,

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    Worse than imagined. The 700 km of wall, the demand of security for id and permits. The Palestinian people are slowly being driven from their land. If you imagine an old war movie with Nazi soldiers everywhere with guns and road blocks everywhere stopping searching and arresting people then multiply then you still don't come close. Residents of the West Bank are not permitted into Jerusalem without a permit. But we need people visiting and supporting the Palestinian people and BDS

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Worse than imagined. The 700 km of wall, the demand of security for id and permits. The Palestinian people are slowly being driven from their land. If you imagine an old war movie with Nazi soldiers everywhere with guns and road blocks everywhere stopping searching and arresting people then multiply then you still don't come close. Residents of the West Bank are not permitted into Jerusalem without a permit. But we need people visiting and supporting the Palestinian people and BDS
    Your experience ties in with everyone who I used to work with who visited there. I did know some who were instinctively pro-Israel but who returned with a very different point of view. The tiny ray of hope they saw was that there was a greater opposition within Israel to the extreme Israeli government than the government would like to have made known - or which the western media publicises.

    It's hard to see any hope in the current situation, but 30 years ago the Berlin Wall existed, as did the Soviet Union, apartheid in South Africa, with Nelson Mandela still languishing in jail and the thought that Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley would sit down together in government was crazy. So we must retain some hope that the Palestinian/Israeli situation will be added to that list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Cheers mate, it's unreal but not that the UN have said it's an apartheid regime maybe more will be done. Surprisingly most Palestinians just want peace and freedom to move around their own country.

    Still a long way of yes but that's another discussion 😄
    As long as it's a potential destination for you ;-)

    I know a couple of folks from Gaza in Edinburgh and they often talk about being hemmed in, unable to do anything.

    I can't see the 'west' forcing Israel's hand. Apparently though, there is a bit more pressure coming from within Israel. Have you seen any evidence of that? As in Israeli movements or groups who are looking for a solution and are against the hardliners like Netanyahu etc?

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    We met with Israeli activists, who want the borders back to before 1967 but their numbers are small. They were saying a lot of the land grabbing was being done by Jews coming from the US and Eastern Europe.

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    Glad it was a safe trip.

    On the social media thing, I have a friend who lives and works in Ramallah (she teaches and uses music to help traumatised children) and we used to write hand written letters, pre-internet days. These letters would often arrive having been opened and re-sealed. When we started emailing, around the early 2000s, it twice happened that I received blank emails, just her address, a topic, but no content. I thought she had made a mistake, but eventually I asked her about this, and she said it was because they had been screened and wiped by Israeli 'intelligence' officers. Apparently, this was normal too, so it is not far fetched to assume that the warning you were given about posting on social media was real.

  14. #73
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    Check out this video made by the Lajee center. It's extremely moving
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mUi3bxsCwUE

  15. #74
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    Abby Martin talks about her visit to Palestine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=rBRxt5ufnGg

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Hi has anyone visited Palestine? I'm going over with Palestine Solidarity Campaign in March. Obviously I know a lot of the suffering that the illegal occupation has caused but has anyone got any first hand knowledge?
    I went for a couple of days.

    unlike what the media will have you believe......they generally work alongside Israelis.

    Palestinians can freely cross the border providing they,or their families have no terrorist links. Which is fair game I'd say.

    Watch out for the Palestinians ripping you off though....They are very good at it,along with pulling out the victim cards whenever they get the chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    I went for a couple of days.

    unlike what the media will have you believe......they generally work alongside Israelis.

    Palestinians can freely cross the border providing they,or their families have no terrorist links. Which is fair game I'd say.

    Watch out for the Palestinians ripping you off though....They are very good at it,along with pulling out the victim cards whenever they get the chance.
    Oh bloody hell.

    Lemme get my popcorn......

  18. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    I went for a couple of days.

    unlike what the media will have you believe......they generally work alongside Israelis.

    Palestinians can freely cross the border providing they,or their families have no terrorist links. Which is fair game I'd say.

    Watch out for the Palestinians ripping you off though....They are very good at it,along with pulling out the victim cards whenever they get the chance.

  19. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    Oh bloody hell.

    Lemme get my popcorn......
    😂😂

  20. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Returned from Palestine last night, we were advised that we could not post anything on social media whilst there. I visited Ramallah and met with several NGOs including a group representing children who get arrested for throwing stones. The lawyer told us that 98% of the kids get convicted so they plea bargain and try get reduced sentences, usually 3 months. If they don't plead guilty they get a minimum of 12 months.
    I visited Hebron and seen how the city has been split in two. The settlers protected by the Israeli army have taken half the city. No Palestinian is allowed in the settlements. There are 600000 settlers now in the occupied Palestinian land. This is a breech of the Geneva convention. An occupying army are not permitted to move its people into the occupied land. It's now 50 years since the 6 day war and the Israeli government are taking over Palestine. They now control 42% of the land and have military control over the rest whenever they want.
    When in Jerusalem we went to the Aida refugee camp and Lajee Education centre. Check out the Lajee centres website. This was the centre the Green Brigade raise money for, 176000, they bought property and a garden to expand the centre.
    http://www.lajee.org/index.php

    I've returned shocked and saddened. It's an apartheid regime with total control by the Israeli government. They control everything from the roads, airport, water all the way through to the school curriculum. It's these reason why I support BDS(Boycott Disinvestment & Sanctions) https://bdsmovement.net and now can't see how a two state solution ever working.
    I've no doubt this was an incredibly moving, and eye-opening experience, but I need to pick up on the bit in bold.

    I've long-researched the water conflict in the Israel-Palestine region, and found it truly eye-opening reading about Israel's influence on Palestine's water accessibility. I initially thought that damming rivers that crossed between the two regions was the only way they could hamper Palestinian access to water, but delving a bit deeper unveiled some scary conclusions. Often, many Palestinian settlements are located proximate to an Israeli water company pipe, but aren't allowed to connect to it. They therefore rely on two primary options: 1) very expensive desalination facilities for brackish water, and seawater (with the transfer of spare parts or suitably qualified operators being significantly restricted by Israel), or 2) the delivery of water in trucks, which ramps up access costs considerably.

    There are other factors at play, so to say Palestine's water limitations are PURELY a result of Israel isn't accurate at all (climatic conditions, low-lying topography, abysmal existing infrastructure that mostly contributes to water losses), but their actions certainly compound the misery of those already living under an oppressive authority.

    I'm currently writing a book on hydropolitics across the globe and the situation surrounding Israel, Palestine, Syria and Jordan is truly horrifying.
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...

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