Hibs fan in court for assaulting Rangers player at SC final

[Smartie]

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I've never in my life heard of anybody being charged with assault by simply holding onto someone.

Not saying it doesn't happen but its not something I have came across before.

Assault us a pretty broad term and can involve a lot of stuff that seems on the face of it innocuous.

The bottom line is that you literally cannot lay a finger on anyone without their permission or you might legitimately be charged with assault. Carrying out medical treatment on someone without them fully understanding it and being able to consent can be classed as assault.

Most of the time it doesn't come down to it and common sense would come in.

Sheils probably didn't think he'd been assaulted at the time, hence his Dad's comments. Rangers will have put him right later and he'll have been under no illusion what he's meant to say.

Technically, provided there was unwelcome (albeit accidental and minimal) contact with all of the The Rangers players, Keith Jackson's story may be correct. Even though we all know it was utter b******s.

[Lago]

Running at Shields in order to shake his hand, right up there with the big boy did it and ran away excuse.

[Bishop Hibee]

One of the guys in my monthly poker school is a Sherriff and while uninterested in football, quite openly stated that who the majority of the police in the west support will have had a big influence on how all this has been handled.

[mmmmhibby]

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Well if he hadn't run on the pitch like an idiot he wouldn't be in this mess.

And it's assault whether or not you make contact, - if the attempt and intent is there.

Garbage.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Garbage.

Don't think it is:-

There is no distinction made in Scotland between assault and battery (which is not a term used in Scots law), although, as in England and Wales, assault can be occasioned without a physical attack on another's person, as demonstrated in Atkinson v. HM Advocate[19] wherein the accused was found guilty of assaulting a shop assistant by simply jumping over a counter wearing a ski mask. The court said:

[A]n assault may be constituted by threatening gestures sufficient to produce alarm

— Atkinson v. HM Advocate (1987)

[worcesterhibby]

I think I may report Dean Shiels for assault

[HibernianJK]

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Funny NH, we were talking about the final over drinks recently and all of us remarked how good the refereeing was - if you look back there were some pivotal refereeing moments which either favoured us, or on another day a ref may have made a different call. We came up with three - allowing 'play on' after McGinn was fouled (Stokes goal), the 'push' on Waghorn by Lewy at 1-1, and as you say the 'nudge' on Tavernier. Thank god it wasn't Collum with the whistle !

Having seen the incident many times I can't help but feel Steveson got away with one. I have no idea what he was going putting 2 arms into Waghorns back there.

[Waxy]

Tavernier might yet get done for impersonating a defender.

[Killiehibbie]

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Having seen the incident many times I can't help but feel Steveson got away with one. I have no idea what he was going putting 2 arms into Waghorns back there.

What do you reckon 3 months or 240 hours community service if they decide to prosecute for what is an assault?

[truehibernian]

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Tavernier might yet get done for impersonating a defender.

What, the £4 million rated 'defender' Tavernier ?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/richard-gough-tips-james-tavernier-for-4m-move-1-3849599

Gough should get done for conspiracy to talk utter **** 😀 Wouldn't take Tavernier at Hibs for £4K !

[JIm]

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I feel the same whenever I report the drug dealing bitch that stays in the flat below us.

What's your address mate, needing a new dealer anyway

[Captain Trips]

[QUOTE=worcesterhibby;4906325]I think I may report Dean Shiels for assault



"It was a Phoenix from the flames sketch my Lord, I was Dean and Dean played Craig Gordon"

[northstandhibby]

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Don't think it is:-

There is no distinction made in Scotland between assault and battery (which is not a term used in Scots law), although, as in England and Wales, assault can be occasioned without a physical attack on another's person, as demonstrated in Atkinson v. HM Advocate[19] wherein the accused was found guilty of assaulting a shop assistant by simply jumping over a counter wearing a ski mask. The court said:

[A]n assault may be constituted by threatening gestures sufficient to produce alarm

— Atkinson v. HM Advocate (1987)

You're correct to state that but in the normal scheme of the law a breach of the peace whereby causing fear and alarm would be the appropriate charge as it's harder to prove assault when no physical contact has taken place. In Binnie's case if no physical assault or intent to assault could be proven, the breach of the peace whereby causing fear and alarm would be more or less a shoe in by any judge. Surely the better for all charge unless the aim is to ensure an 'assault' charge against a hun player is found as per vindicating the msm and police scotland witchhunt.

Unless of course there is already an additional charge of breach of the peace whereby causing fear and alarm alongside the alleged 'assault'.

Glory Glory

[HibernianJK]

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What do you reckon 3 months or 240 hours community service if they decide to prosecute for what is an assault?

I think that would be letting him off lightly.

[snooky]

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One of the guys in my monthly poker school is a Sherriff and while uninterested in football, quite openly stated that who the majority of the police in the west support will have had a big influence on how all this has been handled.

So it's still anybody's guess then?

[Onion]

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Assault us a pretty broad term and can involve a lot of stuff that seems on the face of it innocuous.

The bottom line is that you literally cannot lay a finger on anyone without their permission or you might legitimately be charged with assault. Carrying out medical treatment on someone without them fully understanding it and being able to consent can be classed as assault.

Most of the time it doesn't come down to it and common sense would come in.

Sheils probably didn't think he'd been assaulted at the time, hence his Dad's comments. Rangers will have put him right later and he'll have been under no illusion what he's meant to say.

Technically, provided there was unwelcome (albeit accidental and minimal) contact with all of the The Rangers players, Keith Jackson's story may be correct. Even though we all know it was utter b******s.

World's has gone mad. Few years ago, Shiels would have been told to man-up and get over it. Now these overpaid, prima donnas are coached, presented and behave as if they're a fully paid up member of the Snowflake Generation.

[silverhibee]

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The police will have contacted Dean and taken a statement from him. Given that Binnie has been charged it would appear that Dean has stated that he was grabbed and verbally abused.

Could it not be that someone else maybe stated it and took it up with the police, CCTV may show something that nobody else has seen, the victim doesn't have to be the complainer.

[Pete]

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One of the guys in my monthly poker school is a Sherriff and while uninterested in football, quite openly stated that who the majority of the police in the west support will have had a big influence on how all this has been handled.

Sickening.

[Saturday Boy]

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One of the guys in my monthly poker school is a Sherriff and while uninterested in football, quite openly stated that who the majority of the police in the west support will have had a big influence on how all this has been handled.

I've been catching up on this thread, but I'm amazed no one has asked if you're Doc Holiday or just a riverboat gambler

[CropleyWasGod]

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I've been catching up on this thread, but I'm amazed no one has asked if you're Doc Holiday or just a riverboat gambler

I reckon it's Victoria Coren.

[grammyb111]

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Don't think it is:-

There is no distinction made in Scotland between assault and battery (which is not a term used in Scots law), although, as in England and Wales, assault can be occasioned without a physical attack on another's person, as demonstrated in Atkinson v. HM Advocate[19] wherein the accused was found guilty of assaulting a shop assistant by simply jumping over a counter wearing a ski mask. The court said:

[A]n assault may be constituted by threatening gestures sufficient to produce alarm

— Atkinson v. HM Advocate (1987)

Beat me to this, about the only case law I remember from the criminal law part of my degree! From what I've read/seen I cannot see why they are prosecuting it as assault vs breach of the peace. The punishment can be the same (as long as it's tried in the same court) but botp is much easier to prove (and tends to be a lighter punishment).

[col02]

If the police have been pursuing this case I hope they aim to charge the Rangers fan for assaulting a young kid that was clear on numerous videos. Also the Rangers official who took a swinging kick aimed at a Hibs player but never connected. Again visible on the numerous videos post cup final. Instead this case against the Hibs fan gives the media and Rangers the moral high ground in making out Hibs fans are thugs etc.

[Gordy M]

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One of the guys in my monthly poker school is a Sherriff and while uninterested in football, quite openly stated that who the majority of the police in the west support will have had a big influence on how all this has been handled.

Im sorry but that is utter garbage....and if he has said that its even worse. Firstly....and he should know....the police dont actually officially charge anyone. You are charged by the PF who issues the indictment.....not the police. The police report the circumstances gained from the cctv statements etc and the PF decides what to charge someone with.

If this guy has run on the park and grabbed DS then thats why he will have neen charged with assault....just like if a supporter of another team runs on the pitch on sat and grabs a hibs player??

[CropleyWasGod]

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Beat me to this, about the only case law I remember from the criminal law part of my degree! From what I've read/seen I cannot see why they are prosecuting it as assault vs breach of the peace. The punishment can be the same (as long as it's tried in the same court) but botp is much easier to prove (and tends to be a lighter punishment).

I hear you.

Kind of similar to the guy who was charged with "religiously aggravated botp" when he attacked Lennon at Tynie; he was found not guilty. Whereas, if he'd been charged with assault or plain botp, he was guilty as hell.

[northstandhibby]

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Im sorry but that is utter garbage....and if he has said that its even worse. Firstly....and he should know....the police dont actually officially charge anyone. You are charged by the PF who issues the indictment.....not the police. The police report the circumstances gained from the cctv statements etc and the PF decides what to charge someone with.

If this guy has run on the park and grabbed DS then thats why he will have neen charged with assault....just like if a supporter of another team runs on the pitch on sat and grabs a hibs player??

If you think there is no corroboration between the authorities then you are sadly mistaken bud. They are all one and the same. They are all run ultimately by the Government. The Lords and Sheriffs and the entire court system is actually run by the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Services which is ultimately responsible to the Government (can't remember if it's Westminster or been devolved to Holyrood).

Anyway it's run by the authorities for the authorities. Just one big carve up ultimately and whatever has been decided has been behind closed doors by the ones who hold the power and if they want a PF to include charges believe me that PF will not argue about it.

I feel sorry for young Binnie just a young lad who got a bit over excited.

Glory Glory

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

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If he has a decent lawyer all they need to do is contact the BBC and check through their archives cause Kenny Shiels said live on the radio that Dean had 100% NOT been assaulted. It was a couple of days after the game so wouldn't take long for them to find.

(might have been radio Clyde so check their archives as well).

For a decent lawyer then can I not suggest Donald Findlay QC.

[Gordy M]

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If you think there is no corroboration between the authorities then you are sadly mistaken bud. They are all one and the same. They are all run ultimately by the Government. The Lords and Sheriffs and the entire court system is actually run by the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Services which is ultimately responsible to the Government (can't remember if it's Westminster or been devolved to Holyrood).

Anyway it's run by the authorities for the authorities. Just one big carve up ultimately and whatever has been decided has been behind closed doors by the ones who hold the power and if they want a PF to include charges believe me that PF will not argue about it.

I feel sorry for young Binnie just a young lad who got a bit over excited.

Glory Glory

Yeh but what is being suggested is that all the rangers fans in police all got together and decided to run the enquiry and stitch up.all the hibs fans and protect the sevco fans?? Seriously? And that has come from a Sheriff?

I dont disagree that a message is probably being sent out that going onto the field and 'grabbing' or 'taking hold of' a player whilst being abusive is unacceptable but to suggest its a conspiracy by rangers fans in the police?? Really?

[greenginger]

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Beat me to this, about the only case law I remember from the criminal law part of my degree! From what I've read/seen I cannot see why they are prosecuting it as assault vs breach of the peace. The punishment can be the same (as long as it's tried in the same court) but botp is much easier to prove (and tends to be a lighter punishment).

The wee ned that attacked Deeks at the PBS got charged with breach of the peace.


Fined £ 400 , no banning order.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2009/0...-against-hibs/

[northstandhibby]

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Yeh but what is being suggested is that all the rangers fans in police all got together and decided to run the enquiry and stitch up.all the hibs fans and protect the sevco fans?? Seriously? And that has come from a Sheriff?

I dont disagree that a message is probably being sent out that going onto the field and 'grabbing' or 'taking hold of' a player whilst being abusive is unacceptable but to suggest its a conspiracy by rangers fans in the police?? Really?

Would you argue against the fact the Scottish Mainstream Media ran an untruthful campaign to give their readers the wrongful impression that every hun player had been assaulted on our magical day bud?

There was in my mind a deliberate widespread conspiracy by the Scottish Mainstream Media to taint what was in reality an exuberant and joyful pitch invasion by the vast majority of our fans.

A Sheriff is entitled to his/her opinion, in fact there is probably no-one better placed to give an unbiased account.

I understand it may come as a shock to folk who are uncomfortable thinking the authorities conspire but there you are.

Glory Glory

[silverhibee]

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Agree Killie, lots of crime goes unpunished or sometimes not investigated. However this was a public event, watched by millions (possibly) and received unprecedented media coverage - therefore it's in the public interest whether we like it or not. But I do agree with you that in times of scarce resources and money we perhaps should be focusing more on crime in communities. We do have a duty to pursue a complaint if one is made though - again, regardless of what yours or my moral barometer is and what our opinion is on severity.

How are you my friend, hope your over all those sweets from Xmas. :

Let me take you to another public event that took place about 6 weeks after our great win, TITP where 1000s of folk descended to the north of Scotland for a festival that lasted 5 days, on the 1st day it was being reported that mass brawls were taking place, videos on youtube of folk openly taking and dealing drugs along with the fighting, sadly, a number of deaths, a cash machine stolen from the premises and it continued all through the weekend to the last night, where was the outrage from the media regarding this event, yes it got some publicity and Scottish Police made some arrests, but it never got anything like the publicity that our win got and what happened on the pitch, no mugshots of the folk doing what i have mentioned above in any of the mainstream media, i doubt SP are still looking at CCTV from that weekend of madness, but SP still continue this witch hunt on football supporters 8 months after the event, time for someone in Holyrood to take a stand and call a halt to this investigation by SP now, what a waste of taxpayers money.

I just can't see Dean being a midnight mass.