Scotland

[tonyrougier123]

Scotland and the SFA need revolutionized.its same topic of debate everytime we get beat by a nation we deem lesser than us.they looked fitter,stronger,tactically aware and played us off the park at times.

I say it often but surely summer football would be worth trying.
We need to be performing better on the european stage,and summer football might help,we play crap football on crap pitches on freezing cold days most of the season.thats punishment on the body not helpful.

Fixture congestion quickly followed by mini pre seasons.
Its laughable as supporters we put up with the nonsense by the governing body.

We pay high prices to watch our teams,and generally the quality on show doesn't reflect the product on sale.

As supporters also we need to be doing more in the country,far too reserved in comparison to other nations.too embarrassed to a have a sing song at the games.ive been reading other threads about german fans,seen some awesome videos of schalke,ajax and zenit fans.seem we are losing certain aspects of supporting our clubs.tartan army are excluded from criticism ofcourse always been revered in the game.

Hopefully changes happen,and new ideas are pumped in to the game ,otherwise scotland will continue to spectate the game on grandest stages.

[vuefrom1875]

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'We were looking quite lively until they scored'...
Alex McLeish.

Quote of the year.

Hun.

[vuefrom1875]

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I'm quite glad they got beat

McLeish and McFadden

You've got to laugh

They'll get binned and another couple of weggies will fill in .

[vuefrom1875]

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So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

SFA Weggie.

[vuefrom1875]

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Any footballing initiative in this country doesn't stand a chance UNLESS it benefits both of the 'Ugly Sisters' - same applies if the initiative benefits ALL of Scottish Football !

Just to correct you.....it should be all things WEGGIE.

[poolman]

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I've said it a million times - Andy Roxburgh predicted that there was a s***storm coming for our national team and he was pretty much correct in everything he said was wrong with our game...

Roxburgh is a tw%*

Anyone with half a brain knows our national team is up the Swanee without him putting his useless neb in

[poolman]

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So you blame McFadden for the result? Quite odd.

The players respect and admire him. I can guarantee he is not the issue.

I'd also add that he has huge coaching experience. Or do you think he hasn't been coached for 20+ years?

There's a huge difference to BEING coached rather than coaching

[Mixu62]

Didn't watch it (thank heavens) but watching the highlights:

Goal 1 - a through ball over the top of the defence. Do SPL defenders not deal with that every week? Nobody closing down the man on the ball at the back, who has all the time in the world to pick out his pass. Nobody tracking the run of the forward or fast enough to get back once he did get through. Basic pressing, defensive awareness/positioning and athleticism all lacking.

Goal 2 - almost a carbon copy except the pass is on the ground. Lack of urgency, awareness and pressing from a throw-in.

Almost goal 3 - long range effort tipped over the bar. Guess what? No pressing!! Do these guys think that now they've been capped they're too good to put in a shift?

Actual goal 3 - a cross to the back post? Really? ******' much-maligned Falkirk defenders would have dealt with that!

Throughout it all, the body-language and running style of any players in blue looked awful. Were they wearing lead boots? They looked like they'd already played 90 minutes before the game while they looked fresh and energetic. And I bet the combined pay of the Kazahk team is about a tenth of what our lot are on, yet they showed more creativity and energy. We did have some decent passing moves, from the look of the highlights, mostly down the left but the final ball was awful. I know the general state of our national set up is bad, but it's better than that showing, surely?!

[Haymaker]

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they looked fitter,stronger,tactically aware and played us off the park at times.

I say it often but surely summer football would be worth trying.
We need to be performing better on the european stage,and summer football might help

Two things: First, Summer football would require us to play Feb-Nov. That means cold, ***** pitches at the beginning and end of the season and pitch recovery during December and January. I'm no greenkeeper but I'm guessing that December and January are not the best months to repair pitches.

Second: How does playing summer football make us fitter, stronger, more tactically aware and stop Kazakhstan playing us off the park? And, of course, how will effect those players playing in England?

[tonyrougier123]

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Two things: First, Summer football would require us to play Feb-Nov. That means cold, ***** pitches at the beginning and end of the season and pitch recovery during December and January. I'm no greenkeeper but I'm guessing that December and January are not the best months to repair pitches.

Second: How does playing summer football make us fitter, stronger, more tactically aware and stop Kazakhstan playing us off the park? And, of course, how will effect those players playing in England?

A few ideas off the top here;

A STREAMLINED SEASON:

Play eachother twice home and away.
Add more teams.
30_32 league games a season.
Summer nights midweek fixtures.
Example season running from late march til early october.
Another idea could be a winter cup for a footie fix in january.( I.E league cup)

Teams in europe more fluidity in fixture arrangements ,helping their cause and benifiting the co efficient.

Pitches imo would be in better condition,but like yourself im not a greenkeeper.could possibly be covered in the winter months.

It doesny obviously help to be fitter stronger and tactically better than kazaks.but it would be our own stamp on the game,and the way we decide to play and govern it.that wiuld surely breed confidence all round,and detach us from the game in england.
Also surely more money from tv deals as we would be on in the english league shut down.
That could enhance interest in the game.
I think its about thinking outside the box mate for better results from our game.

[Haymaker]

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A few ideas off the top here;

A STREAMLINED SEASON:

Play eachother twice home and away.
Add more teams.
30_32 league games a season.
Summer nights midweek fixtures.
Example season running from late march til early october.
Another idea could be a winter cup for a footie fix in january.( I.E league cup)

Teams in europe more fluidity in fixture arrangements ,helping their cause and benifiting the co efficient.

Pitches imo would be in better condition,but like yourself im not a greenkeeper.could possibly be covered in the winter months.

It doesny obviously help to be fitter stronger and tactically better than kazaks.but it would be our own stamp on the game,and the way we decide to play and govern it.that wiuld surely breed confidence all round,and detach us from the game in england.
Also surely more money from tv deals as we would be on in the english league shut down.
That could enhance interest in the game.
I think its about thinking outside the box mate for better results from our game.

IIRC we need to play 38 games to qualify for European competition. I may be wrong there but it's come up when discussing a 16/18 team league before.

Late March to early October would require a lot less time to rest between games which would increase the chance of injuries to players trying to squeeze a 10 month season into 6/7 month season.

A winter cup? When would the players have an off season?

Summer is when most people take their families on holiday and like to enjoy other activities like Golf.

I'm not a greenkeeper but the UV lights required to grow grass in winter are ridiculously expensive to run.

Teams in Europe would be playing in November and February so if we condense the league to late March to early October we'd still be playing in the colder months with poorer conditions.

It still wouldn't make us stronger, fitter or more tactically aware so...

There's a tournament every summer (and more being planned involving club football) I doubt we'll get a better TV deal for the maybe 12 weeks that England has no football.

I don't want to be a dick here and I certainly don't want you to think I'm having a go mate, I totally agree that Scottish football needs changes to it however I cant see how summer football is that change.

[RoYO!]

Sack the board.

[BILLYHIBS]

Is this our most embarrassing defeat ever?

Serious question

[JimBHibees]

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Is this our most embarrassing defeat ever?

Serious question

Has to be more embarrassing was the performance. Totally outplayed.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Has to be more embarrassing was the performance. Totally outplayed.

Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go

[cleanyman]

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You're glad your country were defeated?

It's not my country

[JimBHibees]

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Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go

Peru were actually good then though we just totally underestimated them. A draw with Iran wasn't the best.

This was always going to be a tricky game given the travel the time difference and reluctance of players and bigger teams letting their players play at a crucial part of the season however allowing for all that it was clearly appalling.

[Green Cabbage 7]

Why do we always seem to try and fit players in together, I mean Armstrong McGregor Mcginn, those 3 might be good players, but Mcginn for example is not playing his natural game, but to play a holding role for the other 2, he’s an engine box to box midfielder, mctominay played the holding role for Man U against PSG and did a good job, sorry management have to take the blame fitting players in the blend isn’t right!

[theonlywayisup]

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Is this our most embarrassing defeat ever?

Serious question

Take your pick from............

Wales 4-0 Scotland (18 Feb, 2004)
Scotland 0-3 Hungary (18 Aug, 2004)
Norway 4-0 Scotland (12 Aug, 2009)
Wales 3-0 Scotland (14 Nov, 2009)
Czech Republic 1-0 Scotland (8 Oct, 2010)
USA 5-1 Scotland (26 May, 2012)
Israel 2-1 Scotland (11 Oct, 2018)
Kazakhstan 3-0 Scotland (21 Mar, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47657749

I would also have added being gubbed 5-0 by Portugal as embarrassing too.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Peru were actually good then though we just totally underestimated them. A draw with Iran wasn't the best.

This was always going to be a tricky game given the travel the time difference and reluctance of players and bigger teams letting their players play at a crucial part of the season however allowing for all that it was clearly appalling.

Peru were South American Champions in 1977 and hey Teofilo Cubillas was nothing but a washed up old man

The image of Roughie frozen to the spot as the ball sails over his right shoulder at the freekick is forever burnt into my memory banks

[Smartie]

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Take your pick from............

Wales 4-0 Scotland (18 Feb, 2004)
Scotland 0-3 Hungary (18 Aug, 2004)
Norway 4-0 Scotland (12 Aug, 2009)
Wales 3-0 Scotland (14 Nov, 2009)
Czech Republic 1-0 Scotland (8 Oct, 2010)
USA 5-1 Scotland (26 May, 2012)
Israel 2-1 Scotland (11 Oct, 2018)
Kazakhstan 3-0 Scotland (21 Mar, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47657749

I would also have added being gubbed 5-0 by Portugal as embarrassing too.

The Portugal one was the most chastening one I can remember, mainly because we were still expecting to be half-decent.

Taking into consideration the quality of the opposition (even if we made them actually look quite good) yesterday was the worst performance I've ever witnessed.

[Pretty Boy]

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Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go

Any competent football set up would have had them watched and viewed extensive video analysis.

However we are talking about the SFA so let's assume we didn't watch them. Even allowing for that we are talking about a team who scored 6 goals and failed to win a game in their last qualifying campaign. They have recently lost to Armenia, Montenegro and Georgia and drawn with Andorra (a team who have won 6 games in their entire international football history). A Sunday league manager should have been able to put a team on the park to scrape the required result.

[Famous Fiver]

As I pointed out on another thread Philippines are 123 in the world and they have just called up Hibs Under 20 youngster Gallantes.

If a country such as Philippines can compete on a FIFA level roughly comparable to Scotland's conquerors yesterday with a Premier League youngster in it, what does that say about those in charge of running our game and managing our national team?

Words fail me.

[hibsbollah]

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They scored after 6 mins. Jeezo that is pathetic from Eck

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Peru were South American Champions in 1977 and hey Teofilo Cubillas was nothing but a washed up old man

The image of Roughie frozen to the spot as the ball sails over his right shoulder at the freekick is forever burnt into my memory banks

Ally didn't even bother scouting Peru. He proudly announced he didn't even know what formation they played. It was a kind of weird British empire superiority based on total ignorance.

[theonlywayisup]

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As I pointed out on another thread Philippines are 123 in the world and they have just called up Hibs Under 20 youngster Gallantes.

If a country such as Philippines can compete on a FIFA level roughly comparable to Scotland's conquerors yesterday with a Premier League youngster in it, what does that say about those in charge of running our game and managing our national team?

Words fail me.

We wouldn't play him because he's too small / too weak for Scotland.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I constantly see/hear about kids who are dismissed at an early age because they are too small. I've seen boys teams built around the strong central defender or the athletic midfielder or the tall centre forward. Other boys, not of that build at the age of 10-14 are dismissed when they start playing on full sized pitches.

So tell me why do we have virtually no top class defenders / athletic midfielders / tall strikers who come into that category.

I believe in this country we turn boys away far too early. When I was 13, I stood in the pouring rain as the only substitute for 90 minutes watching my school team draw 0-0 against the big City team and never got onto the pitch. My son, who was 10 times the player I was, suffered a similar fate. How many other kids up and down the country are not picked because they are too small or deemed not good enough at an early age. How many of these could have been good footballers?

I firmly believe that we need to get back to kids playing with their mates, whether good or bad, in their local area helping to develop a strong team culture. Instead, at an early age, we get boys being cherrypicked by clubs or being elevated to stardom by adoring parents as they move from boys club to boys club - Hutchie, Edinburgh City, Salvesen, Tynecastle, Spartans etc etc and if they're lucky the pro-youth teams.

If it was me, boys up to the age of sixteen would only play for the team that's in the local area. But that'll never happen.

[Stonewall]

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We wouldn't play him because he's too small / too weak for Scotland.

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

I constantly see/hear about kids who are dismissed at an early age because they are too small. I've seen boys teams built around the strong central defender or the athletic midfielder or the tall centre forward. Other boys, not of that build at the age of 10-14 are dismissed when they start playing on full sized pitches.

So tell me why do we have virtually no top class defenders / athletic midfielders / tall strikers who come into that category.

I believe in this country we turn boys away far too early. When I was 13, I stood in the pouring rain as the only substitute for 90 minutes watching my school team draw 0-0 against the big City team and never got onto the pitch. My son, who was 10 times the player I was, suffered a similar fate. How many other kids up and down the country are not picked because they are too small or deemed not good enough at an early age. How many of these could have been good footballers?

I firmly believe that we need to get back to kids playing with their mates, whether good or bad, in their local area helping to develop a strong team culture. Instead, at an early age, we get boys being cherrypicked by clubs or being elevated to stardom by adoring parents as they move from boys club to boys club - Hutchie, Edinburgh City, Salvesen, Tynecastle, Spartans etc etc and if they're lucky the pro-youth teams.

If it was me, boys up to the age of sixteen would only play for the team that's in the local area. But that'll never happen.

After 10 years helping to run a boy’s club team your thoughts mirror my own. We became thoroughly disillusioned and it was with a profound sense of relief that we packed it up at the end of last season.

[WeeRussell]

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Just to correct you.....it should be all things WEGGIE.

Excuse the ignorance but what is a Weggie? You've used it 3 posts on the trot, and I initially thought you were meaning Weegie, and then Wedgie. Now I've nae idea

[Diclonius]

I'm not buying the whole "ach oor players ur *****" patter either. This suqad is considerably better than the losers we've had in recent years. Granted, they weren't playing but we have two excellent left-backs, one of which possibly is the best in the world right now. McGinn, McKenna, Armstrong, Forrest are all better than what we've had previously. The problem is a **** setup and a **** manager.

Also, if we're REALLY going to go down this route - THREE players in the Kazakhstan squad played outside their league. I'm guessing that means the Kazakh league is **** hot? If we're going for the "Scottish players arnae whit they used tae be eh wi their Playstations and Xboxes" then the Kazakh league must be a model of ****ing professionalism.

[ancient hibee]

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I'm not buying the whole "ach oor players ur *****" patter either. This suqad is considerably better than the losers we've had in recent years. Granted, they weren't playing but we have two excellent left-backs, one of which possibly is the best in the world right now. McGinn, McKenna, Armstrong, Forrest are all better than what we've had previously. The problem is a **** setup and a **** manager.

Also, if we're REALLY going to go down this route - THREE players in the Kazakhstan squad played outside their league. I'm guessing that means the Kazakh league is **** hot? If we're going for the "Scottish players arnae whit they used tae be eh wi their Playstations and Xboxes" then the Kazakh league must be a model of ****ing professionalism.

Think you’re kidding yourself.Robertson is undoubtedly good enough to play at this level.Tierney looks to me that his injury is much worse that is being disclosed.Against us he couldn’t get to the bye line and his acceleration has gone.McKenna is grossly over rated particularly in the press.Forrest has played a lot of internationals and performed up to standard in about 5.Armstrong will never be good enough to be other than a bit part international mid fielder.McGinn will not make it internationally unless he learns to stop giving the ball away.I don’t know how far you are going back in saying that they’re better than previous players.If it’s the last few years you”re right.If it’s longer ago they wouldn’t have got the sniff of a cap.

[G B Young]

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Reminded me of Peru 78 I doubt if McLeish had them watched probably too far to go

Given how much time a Scotland manager often has to spend twiddling his thumbs between games I'd be astonished if Scotland didn't have them watched. What else do the managerial team spend their time doing for months on end?

Whether or not they did their homework, you have to wonder after nearly quarter of a century of failure why such humiliations still get folk all hot and bothered. It seems to me that Scotland have not been anywhere near good enough for many years no matter who the manager is, so the key factor in yesterday's defeat was probably that we're simply pretty p**h.

As for McLeish, I have wondered about his health since he returned to the Scotland fold. There may be nothing in it but his manner appears to have changed. He seems slower of mind and thought somehow. If you look at his managerial record up until the last few years it was pretty strong and certainly as Hibs boss he always came across as intelligent, passionate and decisive. He certainly doesn't cut the commanding figure he did last time round in the job.