Scotland

[Pretty Boy]

What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

[hibsbollah]

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What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

They move to 11 a side in S1. So age 11/12.

A lot of the time I spend watching boys club and schools football is depressing viewing. Ive lost count of the number of parochial jumped up Hitlers ive met who think they are a latter day Eddie Turnbull (or John Greig, usually) because they've spent an afternoon in a stuffy office listening to one of the SFA coaching routeway sessions. But a crap coach is usually unwilling to acknowledge they are crap, and they are usually in place for years and years, getting more and more self righteous as the time goes on.

[CallumLaidlaw]

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What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

My son plays for a 2005's team. They are 7 a side at the minute and move to 11's next August. I'll be fair to the coach as he focuses on playing in triangles, 4 touches, passing out from the back, etc.


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[hibsbollah]

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Surely no matter how many times we say start again at youth level, We should still be able to put a team out that shows fight and quality. We aren't a country of useless players. We just have absolutely no structure at the moment. All in my opinion of course

Im afraid we have an absolute mountain of 'structure', especially when kids football is concerned. Its just not very good.

[Stonewall]

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What age do kids start playing 11 a side now?

I watched part of a game last week and a bunch of wee boys (and that's what they were) were running about an full size pitch. The goalie for 1 team was barely 5 foot and the opposing team had a big lad up front who was just hitting it high from about 18 yards after it was punted up to him. I watched for about 15 minutes and I saw 6 almost identical goals. No finesse, no encouragement of skill or to try something different just hoof it and hit it. Is anyone actually learning anything from that?

Start 11s in S1. At least a year too early imo.

My son currently plays boys club football and that's only one of the problems.

The depressing state of Scottish Football needs more than a couple of paragraphs to do justice to, however the fact that more players on display last night came through Livingston's youth system than the combined systems of our two biggest clubs tells its own story.

[Earl of Currie]

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While our game is being run to the benefit of 2 clubs we will continue to scrape along the bottom.

Everyone is guilty of allowing this to happen , SFA , Clubs , fans.
We have allowed to continue to allow two clubs to dictate how the game is run through our collective actions.
Unfortunately for Scottish Football , there is now a culture of apathy and in many respects we have given up as a footballing nation.

Some of the comments on this site are spot on but sadly some have been discussed for as long as 40 years.
Because many clubs are dependant on the OF money , it is going to take some brave individuals to start a revolution , as that is the only thing which will start change.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the current pro youth set up is wrong and I think resources would be better spent getting good coaches into boys clubs.
Just now they are trying to pick kids at 9 years old who are going to make it. That is a crazily difficult thing to do.
It's not even easy at 16. Here is the Victory Sheild team from 2010. These were what we thought were the very best talents in Scotland. The future stars of the game.

--------
Ryan Crump (goalkeeper, Liverpool) - Progressing well at Anfield and a safe pair of hands in the competition so far.

Jamie Hart (goalkeeper, Celtic) - Another tipped for a big future. Terrific shot-stopper with a great attitude.

Stewart Urqhuart (defender, Rangers) - A strong and commanding central defender who leads by example. Skipper is the first person from Glasgow Gaelic School to win international honours.

Kyle Turnbull (defender, Falkirk) - One of the most experienced players. A steady left-back who never gets ruffled and has also played for the U-17s.

Darren Ramsay (defender, Rangers) - Midfielder at club level but has made the right-back role his own with Scotland. Composed defensively and gets forward.

Gerrard Lunday (defender, Dundee Utd) - Strapping centre-half was handed his debut against Northern Ireland. Coped well with the step up.

Stuart Findlay (defender, Celtic) - A good reader of the game who is lightning quick. Strong in the air and tackle.

Ross Madden (defender, Celtic) - Composed left-back with big future. Injury has curtailed his progress this year.

Blair Munn (midfield, Falkirk) - Accomplished central midfielder possesses a great range of passing.

Lewis Kidd (midfield, Celtic) - Loves to burst forward from engine room and is always capable of getting a goal.

Jamie Lindsay (midfield, Celtic) - Top-class vision and accurate passing. Best link between midfield and attack.

Craig Johnstone (midfield, Queen's Park) - Wideman with bags of pace. Loves to take players on and get crosses in.

Gary Duggan (midfield, Queen's Park) - Hugs the left flank and another not afraid to run at defenders. Has a great delivery and a set-piece expert.

Craig Storrie (midfield, Aberdeen) - Baby of the side at just 14. Has incredible fitness and made debut against Wales.

Denny Johnstone (striker, Celtic) - Tall, rangy and an accomplished finisher. A real handful in the tournament so far.

Jack Kirwan (striker, Celtic) - Similar in stature to Johnstone and another with keen eye for goal. Been used as impact player to good effect.

Cameron Smith (striker, Aberdeen) - Aiming for clean sweep tonight after scoring against Wales and Northern Ireland.

Scotland's best player during the Victory Shield.

Craig Sibbald (striker, Falkirk) - Just returned to the squad after injury. Impressed as sub against Northern Ireland and Wales.

-------
Out of that team, Sibbald is the only one I'm aware of still playing. And they were 16 year olds. They should just be hitting their peak right now.
Amazingly, even though we know we can't pick them at 16, we're trying to do it at 10. Mental.


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[mjhibby]

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My son plays for a 2005's team. They are 7 a side at the minute and move to 11's next August. I'll be fair to the coach as he focuses on playing in triangles, 4 touches, passing out from the back, etc.


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Some youth clubs like bonnyrigg,spartans and especially tranent are doing it right and are a delight to watch and play against. Your right that there are so many areas needing sorted even from the dad's berating their kids and the coaches. A had a great game a few weeks ago when both our team and the other side played out a brilliant game with loads of passes,one twos some terrific goals and played at a terrific pace. When the game finished both teams got great applause from all the parents and it was a pleasure to be involved with. During the game the kids got nothing but encouragement from the sidelines and the parents were wowed by the passing moves. Unfortunately most games aren't like that and most kids think their failing if they lose a game. One recommendation I would make is that we have one coaching method,like Holland,and we all develop the same way. Obviously you can make exceptions for precocious kids but I think it would help if we had at least a uniformed approach. You can see every week where there are two coaches they are not on the same wavelength.

[theonlywayisup]

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Scottish football, both national and domestically, has been mismanaged by all those involved in the game. The self-interest of clubs, the cut-throat league system, Reagan and Doncaster are all to blame. Until we have a root and branch review and reset of the game, the game will continue to decline in Scotland.

Any Premier Division that includes Ross County, Inverness and Hamilton's core established clubs is going nowhere.

But did we not have one a few years ago by the McLeish

[CallumLaidlaw]

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I think the current pro youth set up is wrong and I think resources would be better spent getting good coaches into boys clubs.
Just now they are trying to pick kids at 9 years old who are going to make it. That is a crazily difficult thing to do.
It's not even easy at 16. Here is the Victory Sheild team from 2010. These were what we thought were the very best talents in Scotland. The future stars of the game.

--------
Ryan Crump (goalkeeper, Liverpool) - Progressing well at Anfield and a safe pair of hands in the competition so far.

Jamie Hart (goalkeeper, Celtic) - Another tipped for a big future. Terrific shot-stopper with a great attitude.

Stewart Urqhuart (defender, Rangers) - A strong and commanding central defender who leads by example. Skipper is the first person from Glasgow Gaelic School to win international honours.

Kyle Turnbull (defender, Falkirk) - One of the most experienced players. A steady left-back who never gets ruffled and has also played for the U-17s.

Darren Ramsay (defender, Rangers) - Midfielder at club level but has made the right-back role his own with Scotland. Composed defensively and gets forward.

Gerrard Lunday (defender, Dundee Utd) - Strapping centre-half was handed his debut against Northern Ireland. Coped well with the step up.

Stuart Findlay (defender, Celtic) - A good reader of the game who is lightning quick. Strong in the air and tackle.

Ross Madden (defender, Celtic) - Composed left-back with big future. Injury has curtailed his progress this year.

Blair Munn (midfield, Falkirk) - Accomplished central midfielder possesses a great range of passing.

Lewis Kidd (midfield, Celtic) - Loves to burst forward from engine room and is always capable of getting a goal.

Jamie Lindsay (midfield, Celtic) - Top-class vision and accurate passing. Best link between midfield and attack.

Craig Johnstone (midfield, Queen's Park) - Wideman with bags of pace. Loves to take players on and get crosses in.

Gary Duggan (midfield, Queen's Park) - Hugs the left flank and another not afraid to run at defenders. Has a great delivery and a set-piece expert.

Craig Storrie (midfield, Aberdeen) - Baby of the side at just 14. Has incredible fitness and made debut against Wales.

Denny Johnstone (striker, Celtic) - Tall, rangy and an accomplished finisher. A real handful in the tournament so far.

Jack Kirwan (striker, Celtic) - Similar in stature to Johnstone and another with keen eye for goal. Been used as impact player to good effect.

Cameron Smith (striker, Aberdeen) - Aiming for clean sweep tonight after scoring against Wales and Northern Ireland.

Scotland's best player during the Victory Shield.

Craig Sibbald (striker, Falkirk) - Just returned to the squad after injury. Impressed as sub against Northern Ireland and Wales.

-------
Out of that team, Sibbald is the only one I'm aware of still playing. And they were 16 year olds. They should just be hitting their peak right now.
Amazingly, even though we know we can't pick them at 16, we're trying to do it at 10. Mental.


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Denny Johnstone as well


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[theonlywayisup]

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My son plays for a 2005's team. They are 7 a side at the minute and move to 11's next August. I'll be fair to the coach as he focuses on playing in triangles, 4 touches, passing out from the back, etc.


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It all goes pear shaped when they start on the big 11 a side pitches - trust me!

[LancsHibs]

The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

[Saint Hibee]

Not sure if this has been posted, but an interesting read on what's wrong with youth development in Scotland, including some interesting thoughts from our own Neil Lennon: https://www.theguardian.com/football...ngland-wembley

[Marco G]

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Surely no matter how many times we say start again at youth level, We should still be able to put a team out that shows fight and quality. We aren't a country of useless players. We just have absolutely no structure at the moment. All in my opinion of course

Think you have got it right. We can still try to improve our youth set ups etc, but we have enough players good enough for EPL/Championship and our own top league who should be able to form a team that can get results.

Look at N Ireland & Wales and ROI. Its about getting a system that can work even when the team changes. I thought Strachan was getting there last campaign but it all seems to have gone pear shaped now.

There are a lot of countries who dont have stronger leagues or better resources than we do, but can qualify for tournaments. Eg the above, Denmark, Austrua, Slovenia to name a few.

To me its about finding the right manager playing the right systems!

[GreenCastle]

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Everyone is guilty of allowing this to happen , SFA , Clubs , fans.
We have allowed to continue to allow two clubs to dictate how the game is run through our collective actions.
Unfortunately for Scottish Football , there is now a culture of apathy and in many respects we have given up as a footballing nation.

Some of the comments on this site are spot on but sadly some have been discussed for as long as 40 years.
Because many clubs are dependant on the OF money , it is going to take some brave individuals to start a revolution , as that is the only thing which will start change.

Agreed - bit harsh to blame the fans but I guess we put up with it when it's been bad for so long.

The old firm supporters aren't exactly bothered about the national team - more about the bigot fest when they play each other.

[GreenCastle]

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But did we not have one a few years ago by the McLeish

The thing which makes me laugh about the this is why was Henry Mcleish the one to do a review of Scottish football ?!! He was first minister..and..

Surely get a review done by top coaches / managers in the world - not someone who has no idea / dated ideas of football.

[GreenCastle]

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The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

EPL is such an over rated league. More average games that good games. Foreign players / coaches can help British players learn new ideas etc but at the same time how many English managers have won the EPL (modern) - and how well have England done since the money has come in.

England have a big problem also with player development - we shouldn't be saying a player is good just because they play down south in a average league - maybe if Scottish player made up the top 4 teams playing in champions league but most can hardly get a game for their English side.

Scotland needs to look more at home and ways to fix own leagues and structure as players will continue to leave which is fine but the standard of player being produced isn't good enough.

[leithsansiro]

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As a footballing nation, we are really really poor.

How bad is it going to be before this proud nation does something about it.

I don't blame Strachan. I don't blame today's players.

No the blames lies with all of those who have input into Scottish football for the last 30 years. We are getting increasingly worse.

The quality of player today is miles worse than where we were 30 years ago.

I blame the schools. I blame the pro-youth teams. I blame the boys football teams. I blame the Government. I blame the professional football teams. I blame the dads that take their sons football teams. You're all to blame.

You blame the dads that take their sons football teams? Have a word with yourself! Without people volunteering to help out with teams, there would e no teams.

If you want to go slinging mud around about kids football, don't blame the parents who make an effort. Blame the ones who stand on the sidelines and hurl abuse at their child for not completing Messi-type dribbles or loudly shout that their offspring should "f***ing chop that boy" if the opposition have anyone skilful. Blame the parents who want the ball launched forward as fast as possible.

[AlbertK86]

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I think the current pro youth set up is wrong and I think resources would be better spent getting good coaches into boys clubs. Just now they are trying to pick kids at 9 years old who are going to make it. That is a crazily difficult thing to do. It's not even easy at 16. Here is the Victory Sheild team from 2010. These were what we thought were the very best talents in Scotland. The future stars of the game. -------- Ryan Crump (goalkeeper, Liverpool) - Progressing well at Anfield and a safe pair of hands in the competition so far. Jamie Hart (goalkeeper, Celtic) - Another tipped for a big future. Terrific shot-stopper with a great attitude. Stewart Urqhuart (defender, Rangers) - A strong and commanding central defender who leads by example. Skipper is the first person from Glasgow Gaelic School to win international honours. Kyle Turnbull (defender, Falkirk) - One of the most experienced players. A steady left-back who never gets ruffled and has also played for the U-17s. Darren Ramsay (defender, Rangers) - Midfielder at club level but has made the right-back role his own with Scotland. Composed defensively and gets forward. Gerrard Lunday (defender, Dundee Utd) - Strapping centre-half was handed his debut against Northern Ireland. Coped well with the step up. Stuart Findlay (defender, Celtic) - A good reader of the game who is lightning quick. Strong in the air and tackle. Ross Madden (defender, Celtic) - Composed left-back with big future. Injury has curtailed his progress this year. Blair Munn (midfield, Falkirk) - Accomplished central midfielder possesses a great range of passing. Lewis Kidd (midfield, Celtic) - Loves to burst forward from engine room and is always capable of getting a goal. Jamie Lindsay (midfield, Celtic) - Top-class vision and accurate passing. Best link between midfield and attack. Craig Johnstone (midfield, Queen's Park) - Wideman with bags of pace. Loves to take players on and get crosses in. Gary Duggan (midfield, Queen's Park) - Hugs the left flank and another not afraid to run at defenders. Has a great delivery and a set-piece expert. Craig Storrie (midfield, Aberdeen) - Baby of the side at just 14. Has incredible fitness and made debut against Wales. Denny Johnstone (striker, Celtic) - Tall, rangy and an accomplished finisher. A real handful in the tournament so far. Jack Kirwan (striker, Celtic) - Similar in stature to Johnstone and another with keen eye for goal. Been used as impact player to good effect. Cameron Smith (striker, Aberdeen) - Aiming for clean sweep tonight after scoring against Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland's best player during the Victory Shield. Craig Sibbald (striker, Falkirk) - Just returned to the squad after injury. Impressed as sub against Northern Ireland and Wales. ------- Out of that team, Sibbald is the only one I'm aware of still playing. And they were 16 year olds. They should just be hitting their peak right now. Amazingly, even though we know we can't pick them at 16, we're trying to do it at 10. Mental. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stuart Findlay
Jamie Lindsay
Lewis Kidd

All still playing in Scottish leagues

[mjhibby]

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You blame the dads that take their sons football teams? Have a word with yourself! Without people volunteering to help out with teams, there would e no teams.

If you want to go slinging mud around about kids football, don't blame the parents who make an effort. Blame the ones who stand on the sidelines and hurl abuse at their child for not completing Messi-type dribbles or loudly shout that their offspring should "f***ing chop that boy" if the opposition have anyone skilful. Blame the parents who want the ball launched forward as fast as possible.

That made me smile as it's so true. To be fair these dad's are not as prevelant as before but still are enough to affect a good few youngster.

[GreenCastle]

Another issue - stop trying to copy other nations.

Scotland needs to have its own plans and ideas and find a solution that suits Scotland.

No point saying we want the Iceland, Holland, Barcelona, Spanish, Brazilian set up..

Yes we can learn from them but we not to have own our structure suited to the game here. However as I said in earlier posts as Mark Wotte showed it's nearly a waste of time unless the people at SFA change and the Old Firm monopoly changes.

[lord bunberry]

Every time we have a review we look at trying to implement a policy that has worked for another country. We need to get everyone round the table and find a way forward that suits Scotland.
I think Strachan will go, but that is only rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

[jacomo]

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The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

1. The EPL is not holding Wales back
2. There is nothing Scotland can do about it anyhow

I accept that Wales have a number of individual players who are a step above what we have at the moment, but much of their squad is on a level with us.

What Coleman has done is identify the best players he has available and then work on a system that plays to their strengths. Our centre back pairing is awful and I felt sorry for Super Leigh last night - dropped into the team after hardly any starts and expected to deliver.

The other side is the youth set up. Better facilities and better coaching, with a focus on skills development, not just favouring the big lads. Iceland is a good model, there are others.

[Dublin07]

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So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

It's not that kids are not interested. Kids are still interested in playing football and are still doing so in huge numbers. It's the coaching and overall structure that's wrong. Kids are being taught how to win games at 8 years old before they are coached on skill, touch, movement. Go down any public park and you will hear kids being shouted at for making mistakes at 8 or 9 years old.
what happens in a lot of cases is you have the biggest, quickest 7 year olds hammering teams every week because of their physical attributes. The coaches or dads in most cases are delighted and feel like the new fergie. They don't then coach them basic skills and 3 or 4 years down the line when they are playing 11 a side their skill and game management is terrible and they struggle.

[Allant1981]

We actually have a lot of decent players, they are never going to be world class and think everyone knows that but the in form players need to be picked and played in proper positions

[blackpoolhibs]

There is no one answer to rectify this, but getting rid of all the dinosaurs in the SFA would be a great start.

Then bring in the best foreign men we could afford from Germany, spain, Holland to set the whole thing up from the bottom.

And then they could start on getting players to live correctly, train correctly and treat the ball correctly. There is a gravy train here in Scotland that is making the select few very fat, change is the last thing they want.

Until the time comes where turkeys start voting for xmas, we are stuck with what we have.

[northstandhibby]

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There is no one answer to rectify this, but getting rid of all the dinosaurs in the SFA would be a great start.

Then bring in the best foreign men we could afford from Germany, spain, Holland to set the whole thing up from the bottom.

And then they could start on getting players to live correctly, train correctly and treat the ball correctly. There is a gravy train here in Scotland that is making the select few very fat, change is the last thing they want.

Until the time comes where turkeys start voting for xmas, we are stuck with what we have.

If pushed for change they would probably hire Lord Nimmo Smith to chair an enquiry.

Lord Nimmo Smith - 'The SFA and it's structures has no case to answer, carry on as before'

[GreenCastle]

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We actually have a lot of decent players, they are never going to be world class and think everyone knows that but the in form players need to be picked and played in proper positions

No we really don't hence why most are playing at average teams.

Our most expensive player can't even get a game..Burke.

[southsider]

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It's not that kids are not interested. Kids are still interested in playing football and are still doing so in huge numbers. It's the coaching and overall structure that's wrong. Kids are being taught how to win games at 8 years old before they are coached on skill, touch, movement. Go down any public park and you will hear kids being shouted at for making mistakes at 8 or 9 years old.
what happens in a lot of cases is you have the biggest, quickest 7 year olds hammering teams every week because of their physical attributes. The coaches or dads in most cases are delighted and feel like the new fergie. They don't then coach them basic skills and 3 or 4 years down the line when they are playing 11 a side their skill and game management is terrible and they struggle.

But kids don't seem to play "bounce" games any more. I walked through the meadows last Sunday and there was not one game going on. When I was young (40 odd years ago) every blade of grass had a game going on. We played for the love of the game. Jumpers for goalposts.

[theonlywayisup]

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The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

Yet countries such as Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic and Iceland have more/better players in the EPL. The EPL is not to blame. It's all gone wrong way before then.