Scotland

[theonlywayisup]

As a footballing nation, we are really really poor.

How bad is it going to be before this proud nation does something about it.

I don't blame Strachan. I don't blame today's players.

No the blames lies with all of those who have input into Scottish football for the last 30 years. We are getting increasingly worse.

The quality of player today is miles worse than where we were 30 years ago.

I blame the schools. I blame the pro-youth teams. I blame the boys football teams. I blame the Government. I blame the professional football teams. I blame the dads that take their sons football teams. You're all to blame.

[Itsnoteasy]

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As a footballing nation, we are really really poor.

How bad is it going to be before this proud nation does something about it.

I don't blame Strachan. I don't blame today's players.

No the blames lies with all of those who have input into Scottish football for the last 30 years. We are getting increasingly worse.

The quality of player today is miles worse than where we were 30 years ago.

I blame the schools. I blame the pro-youth teams. I blame the boys football teams. I blame the Government. I blame the professional football teams. I blame the dads that take their sons football teams. You're all to blame.

What are you blaming them for.

[theonlywayisup]

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What are you blaming them for.

Scotland being a joke of a football team. The poor quality of player that we have today.

[Itsnoteasy]

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Scotland being a joke of a football team. The poor quality of player that we have today.

So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

[theonlywayisup]

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If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

So we give up then!!

[Itsnoteasy]

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So we give up then!!

Well you have said it is everyone's fault that they are s***e. So who is going to achieve this minor miracle. If the parents or volunteers didnae take these boys clubs I'm afraid there would be no more football

[tamig]

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So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

We never had a string of top class sprinters before or after Wells. We've always had a pretty steady stream of top class footballers, but that well appears to have run dry.

What did Mark Wotte do in all the years he was royally rewarded by the SFA? What was his legacy? Certainly not a rich seam of talent. The SFA need to look at other countries and start again from scratch. Something has to change.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

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So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

Tainted.

[Dublin07]

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So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

It's not that kids are not interested. Kids are still interested in playing football and are still doing so in huge numbers. It's the coaching and overall structure that's wrong. Kids are being taught how to win games at 8 years old before they are coached on skill, touch, movement. Go down any public park and you will hear kids being shouted at for making mistakes at 8 or 9 years old.
what happens in a lot of cases is you have the biggest, quickest 7 year olds hammering teams every week because of their physical attributes. The coaches or dads in most cases are delighted and feel like the new fergie. They don't then coach them basic skills and 3 or 4 years down the line when they are playing 11 a side their skill and game management is terrible and they struggle.

[blackpoolhibs]

There is no one answer to rectify this, but getting rid of all the dinosaurs in the SFA would be a great start.

Then bring in the best foreign men we could afford from Germany, spain, Holland to set the whole thing up from the bottom.

And then they could start on getting players to live correctly, train correctly and treat the ball correctly. There is a gravy train here in Scotland that is making the select few very fat, change is the last thing they want.

Until the time comes where turkeys start voting for xmas, we are stuck with what we have.

[southsider]

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It's not that kids are not interested. Kids are still interested in playing football and are still doing so in huge numbers. It's the coaching and overall structure that's wrong. Kids are being taught how to win games at 8 years old before they are coached on skill, touch, movement. Go down any public park and you will hear kids being shouted at for making mistakes at 8 or 9 years old.
what happens in a lot of cases is you have the biggest, quickest 7 year olds hammering teams every week because of their physical attributes. The coaches or dads in most cases are delighted and feel like the new fergie. They don't then coach them basic skills and 3 or 4 years down the line when they are playing 11 a side their skill and game management is terrible and they struggle.

But kids don't seem to play "bounce" games any more. I walked through the meadows last Sunday and there was not one game going on. When I was young (40 odd years ago) every blade of grass had a game going on. We played for the love of the game. Jumpers for goalposts.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

Strict anti-doping controls....?

[vuefrom1875]

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So who do you blame for not producing another 100m Olympic Gold medalist after Alan Wells. The parents the schools the coaches.

If the kids are not interested or not good enough there is nothing you can do about it.

SFA Weggie.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Do an Iceland, do a Spain, do a France....realise that all we've done before isn't working. Rip up the book and start again. Two steps back to go forward.

[theonlywayisup]

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Do an Iceland, do a Spain, do a France....realise that all we've done before isn't working. Rip up the book and start again. Two steps back to go forward.

Totally agree - rip it all up and start fresh from the under 8s

[Deansy]

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Do an Iceland, do a Spain, do a France....realise that all we've done before isn't working. Rip up the book and start again. Two steps back to go forward.

Any footballing initiative in this country doesn't stand a chance UNLESS it benefits both of the 'Ugly Sisters' - same applies if the initiative benefits ALL of Scottish Football !

[lord bunberry]

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Any footballing initiative in this country doesn't stand a chance UNLESS it benefits both of the 'Ugly Sisters' - same applies if the initiative benefits ALL of Scottish Football !

While our game is being run to the benefit of 2 clubs we will continue to scrape along the bottom.

[Earl of Currie]

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While our game is being run to the benefit of 2 clubs we will continue to scrape along the bottom.

Everyone is guilty of allowing this to happen , SFA , Clubs , fans.
We have allowed to continue to allow two clubs to dictate how the game is run through our collective actions.
Unfortunately for Scottish Football , there is now a culture of apathy and in many respects we have given up as a footballing nation.

Some of the comments on this site are spot on but sadly some have been discussed for as long as 40 years.
Because many clubs are dependant on the OF money , it is going to take some brave individuals to start a revolution , as that is the only thing which will start change.

[GreenCastle]

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Everyone is guilty of allowing this to happen , SFA , Clubs , fans.
We have allowed to continue to allow two clubs to dictate how the game is run through our collective actions.
Unfortunately for Scottish Football , there is now a culture of apathy and in many respects we have given up as a footballing nation.

Some of the comments on this site are spot on but sadly some have been discussed for as long as 40 years.
Because many clubs are dependant on the OF money , it is going to take some brave individuals to start a revolution , as that is the only thing which will start change.

Agreed - bit harsh to blame the fans but I guess we put up with it when it's been bad for so long.

The old firm supporters aren't exactly bothered about the national team - more about the bigot fest when they play each other.

[LancsHibs]

The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

[GreenCastle]

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The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

EPL is such an over rated league. More average games that good games. Foreign players / coaches can help British players learn new ideas etc but at the same time how many English managers have won the EPL (modern) - and how well have England done since the money has come in.

England have a big problem also with player development - we shouldn't be saying a player is good just because they play down south in a average league - maybe if Scottish player made up the top 4 teams playing in champions league but most can hardly get a game for their English side.

Scotland needs to look more at home and ways to fix own leagues and structure as players will continue to leave which is fine but the standard of player being produced isn't good enough.

[jacomo]

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The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

1. The EPL is not holding Wales back
2. There is nothing Scotland can do about it anyhow

I accept that Wales have a number of individual players who are a step above what we have at the moment, but much of their squad is on a level with us.

What Coleman has done is identify the best players he has available and then work on a system that plays to their strengths. Our centre back pairing is awful and I felt sorry for Super Leigh last night - dropped into the team after hardly any starts and expected to deliver.

The other side is the youth set up. Better facilities and better coaching, with a focus on skills development, not just favouring the big lads. Iceland is a good model, there are others.

[theonlywayisup]

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The EPL is to blame, no room for our better players to play in anymore. This is to our national teams detriment, full of foreign players! This is also a problem for the England national team. Until the bottom falls out of it (and it will eventually) and also more money is put into the Scottish league the Scotland team will continue to flatline. Sky are a big factor in this problem

Yet countries such as Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic and Iceland have more/better players in the EPL. The EPL is not to blame. It's all gone wrong way before then.

[theonlywayisup]

Thought I would resurrect this thread to see if people agree that things are certainly improving since the OP in November 2016, or not. I then noticed PB's summary that I thought was good to share on this thread.

I agree with all that PB states and isn't it about time we ripped up what we're doing and put in place a sustainable plan to improve the nation's footballing capability, having been out-classed by a nation of 4 million.

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Youth football is a huge issue for our ongoing failings. I've argued for years that professional clubs taking boys out of their club teams at 11 or 12 years old to 'develop' then helps no one in terms of football ability. It won't change though because it is entirely motivated by money, no one wants the next £2M player to end up at their rivals.

I'd argue a bigger issue is the quality of coaching though. It's hard to say this because it essentially ends up as a dig at guys giving up their own time for little to no compensation but it doesn't make it any less true. The SFA coaching pathway is rightly lauded at the higher levels but at the formative stages it's a joke. There is no accountability or assessment, turn up, nod your head and get a certificate to say you can coach children and teenagers. I done the next stage of the goalkeeper pathway during lockdown and it was all online. Watch a few videos, answer a few questions and click the mouse a few times. I'm now further qualified. Mental. Even going back to when I started the first course had guys there who should never have been awarded a qualification. They couldn't run through basic drills, struggled to answer simple questions and showed no ability to lead a session. 6 hours later they had shiny certificates and were off to coach goalkeepers up to 16 years old.

We need to remove the competitive element completely at the formative stages for young players. It just encourages bad coaches and pushy parents to do all the wrong things. I regularly watch a couple of youth teams train. One guy is horrendous. The other week after months without football he had young lads of about 10 or 11 running shuttles and was barking about fitness. They haven't played for months, give them a ****ing ball. He then lined them up in s straight line and had them make a 5 yard pass before spinning to the back of the line. He was receiving the pass. What's the point in that session? He gets 10 times as many touches as any of the players and what are they learning? On the flip side I regularly pass the all weather pitch Lochend train on and they look like they put together good sessions with loads of the ball, it can be done. Equally a couple of girls teams train near me and their sessions look very football orientated. Mini games, passing and moving and a lot of smiling and laughing. Maybe removing the macho element makes things more productive?

The point about facilities is well made as well. People hate plastic pitches but in Scotland they are a necessity for youth teams to train year round and there aren't enough of them and they are expensive to hire. A few of the cage pitches dotted about the schemes that kids could use for free as and when they wanted would be a good investment. Even if it didn't produce a single player, it's still a good societal investment.

Nothing will change though because money is at the forefront of every decision makers mind.

[The Modfather]

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Thought I would resurrect this thread to see if people agree that things are certainly improving since the OP in November 2016, or not. I then noticed PB's summary that I thought was good to share on this thread.

I agree with all that PB states and isn't it about time we ripped up what we're doing and put in place a sustainable plan to improve the nation's footballing capability, having been out-classed by a nation of 4 million.

We’re two years into a new presidency at the SFA. Have we heard anything about the presidents vision or what his plans are? Or should we just continue to expect silence, keep doing as we have unsuccessfully done for the last 20 or 30 years and hope tournaments continue to be expanded, giving us a better chance of qualifying?

[theonlywayisup]

When I started this thread way back in 2016, Scotland were very poor IMO. However, almost six years on, I'd say last night was as good a performance that I've seen for a long time against a good side, albeit missing their most influential player.

I recall talking to a well-respected boys coach about a decade ago, who told me that there was a good crop of young boys coming through the ranks, with improvements being made at all levels of boys football all the way to the elite teams. If I'm being honest, I was a bit dismissive. However, are we starting to see a better crop of players coming through.

We seem to have better more influential youngsters in the team - Hickey was excellent when he came on, Patterson is still very young and already has 20+ caps, Hendry was excellent, Gilmour didn't even get on the pitch. Add that players like Tierney, Fraser, Armstrong, McKenna, McTominay, Christie etc who are all playing for teams in the Premier League.

That said, we're lucky to have our 'imports' in Adams and Dykes as we they greatly enhance our team. We're also very lucky to have a manager like Steve Clarke - he knows how to build a team.

Let's hope that this is just the start

[ronaldo7]

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When I started this thread way back in 2016, Scotland were very poor IMO. However, almost six years on, I'd say last night was as good a performance that I've seen for a long time against a good side, albeit missing their most influential player.

I recall talking to a well-respected boys coach about a decade ago, who told me that there was a good crop of young boys coming through the ranks, with improvements being made at all levels of boys football all the way to the elite teams. If I'm being honest, I was a bit dismissive. However, are we starting to see a better crop of players coming through.

We seem to have better more influential youngsters in the team - Hickey was excellent when he came on, Patterson is still very young and already has 20+ caps, Hendry was excellent, Gilmour didn't even get on the pitch. Add that players like Tierney, Fraser, Armstrong, McKenna, McTominay, Christie etc who are all playing for teams in the Premier League.

That said, we're lucky to have our 'imports' in Adams and Dykes as we they greatly enhance our team. We're also very lucky to have a manager like Steve Clarke - he knows how to build a team.

Let's hope that this is just the start

All the boys want to play for the team these days. Back then we had players pulling out in favour of their club that you don't see now. I thought it took a while for the atmosphere to ramp up last night, hopefully Saturday will be louder. Patterson going of helped us imo, hickey gave us more cover down that side at they were overloading the left, and we were lucky not to lose something in the first half. Second half was superb with everyone doing their job.

Looking forward to Saturday. The dilemma for Clark is who does he play up front. It's Adams for me.

[vuefrom1875]

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Any footballing initiative in this country doesn't stand a chance UNLESS it benefits both of the 'Ugly Sisters' - same applies if the initiative benefits ALL of Scottish Football !

Just to correct you.....it should be all things WEGGIE.

[WeeRussell]

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Just to correct you.....it should be all things WEGGIE.

Excuse the ignorance but what is a Weggie? You've used it 3 posts on the trot, and I initially thought you were meaning Weegie, and then Wedgie. Now I've nae idea

[Diclonius]

I'm not buying the whole "ach oor players ur *****" patter either. This suqad is considerably better than the losers we've had in recent years. Granted, they weren't playing but we have two excellent left-backs, one of which possibly is the best in the world right now. McGinn, McKenna, Armstrong, Forrest are all better than what we've had previously. The problem is a **** setup and a **** manager.

Also, if we're REALLY going to go down this route - THREE players in the Kazakhstan squad played outside their league. I'm guessing that means the Kazakh league is **** hot? If we're going for the "Scottish players arnae whit they used tae be eh wi their Playstations and Xboxes" then the Kazakh league must be a model of ****ing professionalism.