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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    That's pathetic. I can see the Labour Party in Scotland coming out for independence in the near future. I wonder what your stance will be then.
    I doubt Labour will be but even if they do why would I change my mind on independence?


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  3. #32
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    What tosh. Trump and Farage used fear and racism to get their votes, that's not something you can accuse Sturgeon of. Ridiculous meme that's straight out of the gutter.

  4. #33
    Testimonial Due Smartie's Avatar
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    Am I allowed to be deeply suspicious of Nationalism yet still believe that Scotland should be an independent nation?

    Because I think that sums up my position.

  5. #34
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    Am I allowed to be deeply suspicious of Nationalism yet still believe that Scotland should be an independent nation?

    Because I think that sums up my position.
    Yepp, because accusing the SNP of being xenophobic because they've got the word nationalist in their name is stupid and intentionally misleading. Labour are a socialist party who had many of their members vote for brexit because they wanted more power for the national government and people born here, does that make them National Socialists? Of course it doesn't.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    They never asked. The EU said it would only provide an answer if a member state (ie. the UK) sought clarification. Since the UK wouldn't do that, we never found out.
    Cos they were being twats about it imo.

    A bit like an abusive partner saying your nothing without me, you never manage alone, you'll have no friends, and don't think you'll be getting a penny from me.
    😁
    Last edited by beensaidbefore; 16-11-2016 at 07:55 PM.

  7. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    Seems to me the EU could have put their minds to work on developing some framework around such an event if they wanted to but in reality they didn't so gave a an answer that ensured they wouldn't be asked the question.
    A lot of pressure from London and Madrid no doubt influenced things.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    What tosh. Trump and Farage used fear and racism to get their votes, that's not something you can accuse Sturgeon of. Ridiculous meme that's straight out of the gutter.
    I accept that, and agree.

    But there is no doubt that the snp use the convenient other (westminster, and the subtext of english tories) as a scapegoat, catch all for all evils.

    Its the same tactic, just using a different target.

    Plus there have been, and still are members of the snp who blame 'the english' in a way that trump and farage would have been proud of.

  9. #38
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I accept that, and agree.

    But there is no doubt that the snp use the convenient other (westminster, and the subtext of english tories) as a scapegoat, catch all for all evils.

    Its the same tactic, just using a different target.

    Plus there have been, and still are members of the snp who blame 'the english' in a way that trump and farage would have been proud of.
    There's no comparison between the messages sent out by UKIP/the Republican Party and that what the SNP preach. The SNP having a go at Westminster is fair game in my opinion, what's not is xenophobic rants at foreigners, homophobic attacks and religious bigotry. There's a world of difference and trying to draw parallels along those lines is ridiculous and misleading.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    The SNP has two ways of doing politics.

    One is banging on about independence.

    The other is focusing on process. Any process.

    The preference is to hold out independence as a cure all for everything. When that can't be done so easily - for example when you've lost a Referendum but won an election and have a massive membership to keep happy or distracted - they go for process.

    The SNP's 'commitment' to the internationalist European ideal is all process. It's the perfect distraction.

    The 'commitment' didn't matter so much when being out of the EU was going to be a price worth paying for independence in the IndyRef.

    And the 'commitment' clearly doesn't apply to the SNP MSPs and MPs who voted to Leave...
    I mentioned the Greens, too.....

    The SNP's commitment to Europe has been central to its ethos for about 30 years now, so I can't see how that can be doubted. IF you accept the indy Sco would have needed to regain EU membership, the point is that the SNP wanted to be in, not run away from it like almost everyone else at the moment.

    As well, what I was commenting on was the attempt to secure EEA status within the UK. That's what SNP is currently looking for. If it's all just process, May can just call the bluff.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Oh well, let's have a look at these then.

    Labour-Immigration-pledge-mug.jpg

    Brit Nat's

    th52M2HV25.jpg

    Ex Socialist, now a Brit Nat.

    nashmurray.jpg

    Dickhead.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    There's no comparison between the messages sent out by UKIP/the Republican Party and that what the SNP preach. The SNP having a go at Westminster is fair game in my opinion, what's not is xenophobic rants at foreigners, homophobic attacks and religious bigotry. There's a world of difference and trying to draw parallels along those lines is ridiculous and misleading.
    Fair enough!

    Its not a comparison i made, and i agree it is not as overt or nasty. But one could argue its more subtle and subliminal.

    Blaming westminster might be fine for you, but equally trump having a go at illegal immigrants (not just immigrants as i inderstood it) might be equally ok.

    Personally i think the snp do blame westminster far too often for thimgs that they have moee than enough control over to elaffect. But i wouldnt put them in the same bracket as trump. Farage i dont think is racist, but i do think he is an arse.

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    There's no comparison between the messages sent out by UKIP/the Republican Party and that what the SNP preach. The SNP having a go at Westminster is fair game in my opinion, what's not is xenophobic rants at foreigners, homophobic attacks and religious bigotry. There's a world of difference and trying to draw parallels along those lines is ridiculous and misleading.
    It's too simplistic to put Farage and Trump in the same bracket, divide Trump by an order of magnitude then maybe. Can't despute Farage is an arse, but I don't see him as a racist.

    To address the original post, I'd say the question is "what is the inevitable result of an increasing the proportion of GDP being generated in large cities and leads to a lot of people in any given country not benefiting from the trend?"

    We need to recognise that a lot of people have not benefited from globalisation and it's wrong for self righteous urbanites to dismiss them just because they have personally gained from it.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Fair enough!

    Its not a comparison i made, and i agree it is not as overt or nasty. But one could argue its more subtle and subliminal.

    Blaming westminster might be fine for you, but equally trump having a go at illegal immigrants (not just immigrants as i inderstood it) might be equally ok.

    Personally i think the snp do blame westminster far too often for thimgs that they have moee than enough control over to elaffect. But i wouldnt put them in the same bracket as trump. Farage i dont think is racist, but i do think he is an arse.
    I don't think it's subtle or subliminal. It's a direct attempt to make Nicola Sturgeon appear to be the same as the other 2.

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I don't think it's subtle or subliminal. It's a direct attempt to make Nicola Sturgeon appear to be the same as the other 2.

  16. #45
    Testimonial Due One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I don't think it's subtle or subliminal. It's a direct attempt to make Nicola Sturgeon appear to be the same as the other 2.

    These things only ever work with a wider audience if they are either humorous - which this isn't particularly - or if the reader feels they reflect some grain of truth...

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    These things only ever work with a wider audience if they are either humorous - which this isn't particularly - or if the reader feels they reflect some grain of truth...
    Comparing someone to a man that's famous for being racist, homophobic, sexist along with countless other unpleasant traits never works. Not everyone is going to agree with what Nicola Sturgeon has to say, but she or the party she represents can never be compared to those 2.

  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Tosh. The SNP are a centrist party due to the broad make up of their membership of which I am not one. Sturgeon has said she wishes Scotland could take more Syrian refugees. Hardly something Trump or Farage would agree with.

    If Labour could unite with a proper socialist agenda then you might find they'd be closer to the Tories in the polls. Instead the party is racked by infighting and attacking the SNP rather than putting forward radically different policies to differentiate themselves from them.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

  19. #48
    Not just sometimes but always Northernhibee's Avatar
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    "Who has been the best of speaking the language of the disenfranchised working class?"


    Rangers 2-3 Hibernian
    21st May 2016

  20. #49
    Testimonial Due One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    "Who has been the best of speaking the language of the disenfranchised working class?"

    I think that is missing the point. The feeling of being disenfranchised goes well beyond the working class.

    No-one is telling us - across the classes - a story that makes sense of what is going on on how we move forward. So the snake oil salesmen are able to move in and sell us pure bull5hit instead.

  21. #50
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    I think that is missing the point. The feeling of being disenfranchised goes well beyond the working class.

    No-one is telling us - across the classes - a story that makes sense of what is going on on how we move forward. So the snake oil salesmen are able to move in and sell us pure bull5hit instead.
    This got me thinking what an election manifesto from the left would look like if they started exaggerating their policies as much as the right! Maybe it would look something like this:

    1. Free health care for everyone, you can even choose your own disease.

    2. Each family is entitled to 2 places in nursery, per child.

    3. Workers will have to work on bank holidays, the rest of the year they can have off

    4. All bankers will be extradited.

    5. Buckingham Palace will be turned into sheltered housing for the mentally ill.

    6. Religion will be abolished and opium will take its place.

    It might sound nuts but it's no more mental than what Trump, Farage, Johnson and Co have been promising

  22. #51
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    One o yer Labour pals getting his erse handed to him on a plate.

    http://derekbateman.scot/2016/11/21/...s-in-his-eyes/

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibs0666 View Post
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    Who knows what factor influenced this group, but they clearly had limited desire to live behind yet another border.

    It's interesting that you talk about scaremongering. Did the SNP every get a definitive statement that it would be able to fast-track EU entry?
    Re your last point, how could they issue a definitive answer? Have the Pro Brexit campaign uttered anything on how the UK will leave the EU.

    The EU wouldnt answer any questions unless the UK asked the question. Obviously call me Dave was never going to directly ask the question as the EU would have then had to answer it truthfully.

    It's all for a ball of hall anyway as the rUK voted to leave the EU.

    J

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    One o yer Labour pals getting his erse handed to him on a plate.

    http://derekbateman.scot/2016/11/21/...s-in-his-eyes/
    Not a pal of mine. Never met him but it appears he is a party member but from a different section of the party from me.

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Will SNP MP's give you more bang for yer buck in comparison to the Unionist parties in Scotland?

    Yer tooting they will, even after Labour tried to pull the wool over people's eyes.

    https://t.co/VxOdVBVDXu

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