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  1. #31
    Ireland's Greatest Import Mr White's Avatar
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    Eric Idle's Christmas song sums up my feelings on the subject perfectly.


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  3. #32
    Coaching Staff snooky's Avatar
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    Didn't Christians originally "steal' Christmas Day from the Pagans though?
    Fwiw, it's reckoned that Jesus was born around September/October as that was when records show the census was.
    Just sayin', like.

  4. #33
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Didn't Christians originally "steal' Christmas Day from the Pagans though?
    Fwiw, it's reckoned that Jesus was born around September/October as that was when records show the census was.
    Just sayin', like.

    It's actually the celebration of the Incarnation of Christ - the Word of God made flesh - rather than a birthday party. The Christian belief that the God Who created the material world entered that world in order to redeem that world, rather than the birth itself.

    Since many members of the early Church were either indentured servants or slaves - who couldn't 'get off work' - it probably seemed sensible to hold the Christian celebration at a time when everyone else was celebrating. The Saturnalia was a time of year when normal rules rather went by the board.

    The whole season suffers from an overlay of Victorian sentimentality ('See, amid the winter's snow' sort of stuff) and modern materialism (Black Fridays and Boxing Day sales).

    There's nothing at all wrong with having a cheer-up time in midwinter whatever your beliefs.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  5. #34
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    It's actually the celebration of the Incarnation of Christ - the Word of God made flesh - rather than a birthday party. The Christian belief that the God Who created the material world entered that world in order to redeem that world, rather than the birth itself.

    Since many members of the early Church were either indentured servants or slaves - who couldn't 'get off work' - it probably seemed sensible to hold the Christian celebration at a time when everyone else was celebrating. The Saturnalia was a time of year when normal rules rather went by the board.

    The whole season suffers from an overlay of Victorian sentimentality ('See, amid the winter's snow' sort of stuff) and modern materialism (Black Fridays and Boxing Day sales).

    There's nothing at all wrong with having a cheer-up time in midwinter whatever your beliefs.
    This is basically it.

    I'm no Christian (or Muslim, Jew, Buddist etc etc) and there are elements - specifically the latter that you mention - that do my nut in about Xmas in the UK, but if everyone (and most are tbf) were a bit more " a man's a man for aw that" in their approach at this time of year (and indeed the rest of the time as well) and just occupy themselves with spending time (not necessarily oodles of ) with loved ones and friends and appreciate how bloody lucky they are to be able to do so in the warmth of their own home Xmas would be a much nicer experience for all concerned.

    Probably won't happen though - SPEND SPEND SPEND

    I'll be waking up on Xmas morning (ideally next to the wife assuming things don't go seriously west on Xmas Eve) in the French Alps then going skiing - lovely.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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  7. #36
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    This is basically it.

    I'm no Christian (or Muslim, Jew, Buddist etc etc) and there are elements - specifically the latter that you mention - that do my nut in about Xmas in the UK, but if everyone (and most are tbf) were a bit more " a man's a man for aw that" in their approach at this time of year (and indeed the rest of the time as well) and just occupy themselves with spending time (not necessarily oodles of ) with loved ones and friends and appreciate how bloody lucky they are to be able to do so in the warmth of their own home Xmas would be a much nicer experience for all concerned.

    Probably won't happen though - SPEND SPEND SPEND

    I'll be waking up on Xmas morning (ideally next to the wife assuming things don't go seriously west on Xmas Eve) in the French Alps then going skiing - lovely.

    Well, safe journeys and a really good holiday to you both.

    BTW - "a man's a man for a' that" comes next month. JANUARY, not December ...

    That's the fat guys in ill-fitting kilts misquoting their 'national bard' and getting legless and chucking up half-digested haggis, IIRC.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  8. #37
    Testimonial Due Tory Hibby's Avatar
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    Nothing at all wrong with whole families together for a couple of days. Eating, drinking and entertaining themselves.

    I am looking forward to going to the Xmas Eve game with my oldest who doesn't get to many games. Then food with whole family up town and all heading back to the family home for a day of relaxation together on the 25th. No doubt with some board games.

    Might head over with my two boys to East End Park on Boxing Day.

    Yes there will be presents exchanged. But not overboard. Just a nice relaxing time together.

  9. #38
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tory Hibby View Post
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    Nothing at all wrong with whole families together for a couple of days. Eating, drinking and entertaining themselves.

    I am looking forward to going to the Xmas Eve game with my oldest who doesn't get to many games. Then food with whole family up town and all heading back to the family home for a day of relaxation together on the 25th. No doubt with some board games.

    Might head over with my two boys to East End Park on Boxing Day.

    Yes there will be presents exchanged. But not overboard. Just a nice relaxing time together.
    Some people don't have family to exchange gifts with or eat meals with. Some do have family but no money to do so. I can understand how it could depress people when they can't possibly do what the whole media is telling them they should be doing.

  10. #39
    Testimonial Due Tory Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Some people don't have family to exchange gifts with or eat meals with. Some do have family but no money to do so. I can understand how it could depress people when they can't possibly do what the whole media is telling them they should be doing.
    Fair point.

  11. #40
    On the religious debate, I discovered while researching my family tree that my great-grandparents were members of the Free Church of Scotland. They didn't (and as the United Free Church I think still don't) celebrate Christmas and Great-Granny and Great-Granpa were married on 25 December 1885. My guess is that this was so that they could have a celebration without offending the Church (put up an anniversary tree, anniversary goose for dinner etc).

    As a tragic footnote their son (my Great-Uncle) was killed at Gallipoli on 25 December 1915 - their 30th wedding anniversary.

  12. #41
    @hibs.net private member Jim44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I'm not sure the comment about athiests hokds eater, but I agree that most people embrace Christmas to some degree.

    Christmas trees in Indian restaurants, Christmas menus in Halal restaurants and decorations on asian shop windows attest to that.

    They certainly embrace it more than Christians do with other religious festvals like Diwali or Hanukkah.
    Good on them for getting involved but let's no forget that the majority of their customers are probably Christian and so they have a vested interest in participating.

  13. #42
    Puppet of the board Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim44 View Post
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    Good on them for getting involved but let's no forget that the majority of their customers are probably Christian and so they have a vested interest in participating.
    I don't know many people who make their shopping or curry choices based on whether or not there might be a Christmas decoration on display. Probably the opposite, if anything!

    However, these folk seem to have an entirely generous motivation.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/18/muslims-donate-10-tonnes-food-charity-drive-homeless-christmas/
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 18-12-2016 at 07:22 PM.

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