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Thread: Russia/USA etc

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    Testimonial Due Hibee87's Avatar
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    Russia/USA etc

    Seriously, WTF is going on here

    I am very skeptical (as I am sure most people are nowadays) regarding the news we are fed.

    But what is going on here? All i read is Russia is bad, Russia did this, Russia did that etc etc........But as far as I can see Russia are cleaning up a problem created by the USA/Nato/Allied forces (whatever you want to call them). The 'war on terror' has raged on for over 15 years now and what has been achieved other then divide and create more Islamist groups.

    What is different to what Russia are doing to Aleppo to what the USA are doing in Mosul?

    I am not saying Putin is not a nutcase, or committed atrocities (I only have the UK MSM to base my opinion on) but at least what he is doing is making a difference and starting to put a stop to ISIS and Daesh in large parts of Syria.
    All I see the allied forces doing is light the fuse for a next world war/the end of human civilization


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  3. #2
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    Putin is a mystery and potentially quite dangerous if provoked or if he feels he will be unchallenged - see Ukraine.

    There is a big difference between Russia's actions in Aleppo and the US actions in Mosul and UK/US actions in Sana'a. Our media complains of the Russian's use of white phosphorous and bunker busting bombs - both things the Saudi's have used with UK Air Force staff's guidance and something that 'we' used in Iraq.

    Alex Thomson's twitter feed is interesting. The other day, he was commentating on people leaving East Aleppo. Seems to be supporting exactly as the Russians are saying it is and a very different scene as is being presented by our media.

    On the ships sailing through the English channel - they were in international waters and it doesn't take much of an internet search to find that Russian ships regularly have used the international waters to go round the coast of the UK. They were perfectly entitled to be there, but it was our media who were whipping up the fact they were being tailed by (one tenth) of the Royal Navy.

    It's really quite pathetic and I fear for the situation with someone as hawkish as Clinton in power, but that looks like the only alternative.

    Cool heads will be needed if we're to avoid a confrontation.
    Last edited by steakbake; 26-10-2016 at 05:15 PM.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    Putin is a mystery and potentially quite dangerous if provoked or if he feels he will be unchallenged - see Ukraine.

    There is a big difference between Russia's actions in Aleppo and the US actions in Mosul and UK/US actions in Sana'a. Our media complains of the Russian's use of white phosphorous and bunker busting bombs - both things the Saudi's have used with UK Air Force staff's guidance and something that 'we' used in Iraq.

    Alex Thomson's twitter feed is interesting. The other day, he was commentating on people leaving East Aleppo. Seems to be supporting exactly as the Russians are saying it is and a very different scene as is being presented by our media.

    On the ships sailing through the English channel - they were in international waters and it doesn't take much of an internet search to find that Russian ships regularly have used the international waters to go round the coast of the UK. They were perfectly entitled to be there, but it was our media who were whipping up the fact they were being tailed by (one tenth) of the Royal Navy.

    It's really quite pathetic and I fear for the situation with someone as hawkish as Clinton in power, but that looks like the only alternative.

    Cool heads will be needed if we're to avoid a confrontation.
    A cool head such as Trump?

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    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twiceinathens View Post
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    A cool head such as Trump?
    An arse he may be, but it was his team that stripped much of the US/Russia confrontation stuff out of official republican policy.

    Either way, I think we're on some kind of collision course. Clinton is perhaps more direct. Trump's would probably be through blundering.

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    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38463025


    The US has expelled 35 Russian diplomats as punishment for alleged interference into the presidential election.

    It will also close two Russian compounds used for intelligence-gathering, in Maryland and New York, as part of a raft of retaliatory measures.


    tit for tat shall follow no doubt

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    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    The west has made an utter bollocks of Syria, Libya, Egypt, and so on.... it's no wonder Putin has stepped in to the void.

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    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    penny(or cent rather) for your thoughts Barack

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    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875 View Post
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    penny(or cent rather) for your thoughts Barack
    Hey Shorty. You're standing on my foot.

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    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    The west has made an utter bollocks of Syria, Libya, Egypt, and so on.... it's no wonder Putin has stepped in to the void.
    Oh yeah, because Russia are a paragon of ethics when it comes to Syria...
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...

  11. #10
    Let's be honest neither the US or Russia is getting involved in Syria out of any sense of morality. They are each interested in what's in it for them.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

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    Couple of smart hands played by the Russians lately. Brokering a peace deal in Syria with the Turks. Deciding not to go tit for tat on the diplomatic expulsions. Must be quite a bit seethe in America regarding both of these.

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    Testimonial Due Tory Hibby's Avatar
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    I suspect quite s few arms and energy deals (joint ventures) being brokered by "Presidents" Trump and Putin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tory Hibby View Post
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    I suspect quite s few arms and energy deals (joint ventures) being brokered by "Presidents" Trump and Putin.
    Care to elaborate? Who would be buying and selling the arms in the deals you mention? If the USA and Russia can trade with each other in peace then that is a step in the right direction but i dont think they would go as far as to trade arms with each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Oh yeah, because Russia are a paragon of ethics when it comes to Syria...
    100% certain that Russia did not:
    Create
    Fund
    Or Arm ISIS

    Cant be 100% certain America didnt do any of them.

    I did however witness tanks,landrovers,humvees...the lot leaving Schipol airport through Skylink destined for The Saudis. From The US.

    They were also sending them from the bases they have in Germany.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    100% certain that Russia did not:
    Create
    Fund
    Or Arm ISIS

    Cant be 100% certain America didnt do any of them.

    I did however witness tanks,landrovers,humvees...the lot leaving Schipol airport through Skylink destined for The Saudis. From The US.

    They were also sending them from the bases they have in Germany.
    You were 100% certain the US election was rigged so Clinton would win as well. How did that turn out?
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

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    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    100% certain that Russia did not:
    Create
    Fund
    Or Arm ISIS

    Cant be 100% certain America didnt do any of them.

    I did however witness tanks,landrovers,humvees...the lot leaving Schipol airport through Skylink destined for The Saudis. From The US.

    They were also sending them from the bases they have in Germany.

    How do you know they were destined for the Saudis?

    And how how do you know the were also sent from bases in Germany, and again know that they were for the Saudis?

  18. #17
    Russia is building up it's allies in the middle east whilst the west are losing influence - Putin's done quite well on that front up till now irrespective of how you personally view the man. As for hum vee's going to Saudi - they've had them for years and are tied to them through an older contract - they are the biggest piles of garbage ever designed for the military. Even the Americans didn't want them. Just 'cause big Arnie bought one doesn't make them good.

  19. #18
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    As I see it, Russia is now pulling the strings in the ME because the US/UK alliance has made an arse of it for years.

    We backed the wrong rebels: a dodgy and dangerous bunch of islamists and salafists who've received weapons and money from us in the hope they'll see through Assad's overthrow. From Iraq to Syria and Libya, from relationships with the murderous regime in Riyadh, our bystander support to Israel ruthlessly battering the Palestinian people, the status quo in the UK have got it wrong at each and every turn.

    Now our media and the politicians are focussed on Russia - why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    How do you know they were destined for the Saudis?

    And how how do you know the were also sent from bases in Germany, and again know that they were for the Saudis?
    Everything has airway bills.
    Says where its from(US military base in Germany),and where its going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    You were 100% certain the US election was rigged so Clinton would win as well. How did that turn out?
    According to mainstream media,if you believe the lies...it was rigged!

    Not in their favour however.

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    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    100% certain that Russia did not:
    Create
    Fund
    Or Arm ISIS

    Cant be 100% certain America didnt do any of them.


    I did however witness tanks,landrovers,humvees...the lot leaving Schipol airport through Skylink destined for The Saudis. From The US.

    They were also sending them from the bases they have in Germany.
    No, but they have absolutely obliterated nearly 4000 civilians in the past year with their air-strike regime in Syria - they continue to aid Assad, attacking moderate government-rebel forces, enabling ISIS to expand in the region.

    Russia might not have created, funded or armed ISIS but they're certainly expediting their goals as they wipe out opposition forces.
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    No, but they have absolutely obliterated nearly 4000 civilians in the past year with their air-strike regime in Syria - they continue to aid Assad, attacking moderate government-rebel forces, enabling ISIS to expand in the region.

    Russia might not have created, funded or armed ISIS but they're certainly expediting their goals as they wipe out opposition forces.
    Correct me if I'm wrong...but Assad was the democratically voted choice by the people of Syria?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    Correct me if I'm wrong...but Assad was the democratically voted choice by the people of Syria?
    The same one that was the first multi candidate election since the Ba'ath party had take power decades before in a coup yet somehow ended up with 88% voting for Assad?

    The same election that took place during a civil war that resulted in voting not taking place in many places and with up to 9m Syrians displaced?

    And the same election found by the Electoral Integrity project to be in the bottom 5 for integrity out of 127 elections around the globe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    The same one that was the first multi candidate election since the Ba'ath party had take power decades before in a coup yet somehow ended up with 88% voting for Assad?

    The same election that took place during a civil war that resulted in voting not taking place in many places and with up to 9m Syrians displaced?

    And the same election found by the Electoral Integrity project to be in the bottom 5 for integrity out of 127 elections around the globe?
    The same one that an international delegation from certain countries said was fair,free and transparant?

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member GreenLake's Avatar
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    USA just beat Russia in the Hockey World Junior Cup. Putin has been well and truly pucked, at least today on the ice is.

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    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    The same one that an international delegation from certain countries said was fair,free and transparant?
    Except, only those in government controlled areas were allowed to vote in the first place - Syrians living in rebel-controlled areas were precluded from voting - that's not my definition of 'fair, free an transparent'.

    And maybe he is there by some form of "right" - perhaps he was once a good leader for the people of Syria, elected in a popular movement. But then, I'm sure people thought the same of Hilter, Stalin, Milosevic, Hussein, al-Bashir and Gaddafi before they started to perpetrate war crimes against them.
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member GreenLake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Except, only those in government controlled areas were allowed to vote in the first place - Syrians living in rebel-controlled areas were precluded from voting - that's not my definition of 'fair, free an transparent'.

    And maybe he is there by some form of "right" - perhaps he was once a good leader for the people of Syria, elected in a popular movement. But then, I'm sure people thought the same of Hilter, Stalin, Milosevic, Hussein, al-Bashir and Gaddafi before they started to perpetrate war crimes against them.
    Didn't Blair do a wee deal with Gaddafi?

    Oh and Yet, Mubarak, Pinochet, Somoza, Suharto, Batista, Al-Khalifa and Abdullah were able to keep calm and carry on without intervention.

    If it all got any more stupid the Saudis would be elected to the UN Human Rights Council. Oh wait.

  29. #28
    Coaching Staff snooky's Avatar
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    "Trump wants to work with Russia to solve the pressing problems of the world" (from BBC News website)
    IMO, the USA have kept the pot boiling for years to justify their armament manufacturing industries.
    Now I'm not saying they should be complacent or that the Ruskies are angels but, they overplay the threat to enhance the profits of their war machine businesses.

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