hibs.net Messageboard

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 244

Thread: Cheltenham 2017

  1. #61
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    EDINBURGH
    Age
    46
    Posts
    14,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I didn find the segment with Victoria Pendleton explaining to Mick Fitzgerald how to jump a hurdle mildly amusing.
    If Mick could explain to us how to go about jumping Victoria that would be even better, the show would probably have to start later though! :-)


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #62
    Oliver Sherwood suggesting Many Cloud might run in the Gold Cup.

    Could throw a spanner in the works as he's a proven stayer who won't let anyone have a soft lead if he sets out to make it a stamina test.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  4. #63
    Apart from 1 notable mistake at Cheltenham in November, Thistlecrack is, in my opinion, virtually unbeatable. He's such a professional horse who jumps well, has speed, stays really well, and has good form at Cheltenham. Maybe the best indication of his ability is how he disposed of Cue Card in the King George. The year before Vautour had looked as if he was going to cruise to victory but Cue Card caught him. There was never any chance of that in the 2016 renewal, and they haven't got to the bottom of Thistlecrack, not by a long way.

    As a decent each way bet I'd think about Alpha Des Obeaux in the RSA. His form last year would put him right up there, but we'll see.

  5. #64
    I've just had my 2nd early Cheltenham bet.

    Finians Oscar in the Supreme Novices at 16/1 NRNB with Skybet. Won well at Hereford the other week and if he runs well in the Tolworth (currently 5/2 2nd favourite) on Saturday then that price will go.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Apart from 1 notable mistake at Cheltenham in November, Thistlecrack is, in my opinion, virtually unbeatable. He's such a professional horse who jumps well, has speed, stays really well, and has good form at Cheltenham. Maybe the best indication of his ability is how he disposed of Cue Card in the King George. The year before Vautour had looked as if he was going to cruise to victory but Cue Card caught him. There was never any chance of that in the 2016 renewal, and they haven't got to the bottom of Thistlecrack, not by a long way.

    As a decent each way bet I'd think about Alpha Des Obeaux in the RSA. His form last year would put him right up there, but we'll see.
    I fancied ADO as well but a poor run in the Drinmore in Ireland then a howler in the 3m novice over Xmas has put me right off him. That divison is wide open IMO.

    I like Might Bite, who completed strolled the Kauto Star at Kempton before an unfortunate fall at the last. Think he's one to keep onside.
    Last edited by HibernianJK; 06-01-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  7. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've just had my 2nd early Cheltenham bet.

    Finians Oscar in the Supreme Novices at 16/1 NRNB with Skybet. Won well at Hereford the other week and if he runs well in the Tolworth (currently 5/2 2nd favourite) on Saturday then that price will go.
    Backed all day for the Tolworth, went off favourite and won easy. The Tizzards have made no secret that they are excited by this horse. Cut to 6/1 in places for the Supreme although up to 12s still available. 6/1 favourite across the board for the Neptune which I'm also on NRNB at 10s. All depends what route he goes now.

  8. #67
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,810
    Who's going down this year. I'm heading down for the Thursday and Friday as usual. There's a hibs pub in Cheltenham as well. It would be great if we had a game on at the time.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  9. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Who's going down this year. I'm heading down for the Thursday and Friday as usual. There's a hibs pub in Cheltenham as well. It would be great if we had a game on at the time.
    I had tickets for Tuesday and Wednesday but a change in circumstances means I can no longer go. Pretty gutted. Still got the week booked off work to watch on the box though.

    Heading to Musselburgh in a few weeks for the Scottish Trials. Good to see 2 consecutive days this year and the 'Edinburgh National' over a 4 mile trip is a good addition.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,810
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I had tickets for Tuesday and Wednesday but a change in circumstances means I can no longer go. Pretty gutted. Still got the week booked off work to watch on the box though.

    Heading to Musselburgh in a few weeks for the Scottish Trials. Good to see 2 consecutive days this year and the 'Edinburgh National' over a 4 mile trip is a good addition.
    Musselburgh has made great strides in the last 10 years. I remember going there years ago and it was an absolute tip.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Musselburgh has made great strides in the last 10 years. I remember going there years ago and it was an absolute tip.
    I live just across the road and there's always a buzz about the place when there's racing on. Lovely little track.

  12. #71
    I see the much hyped American Tom for Ricci/Mullins/Walsh flopped today at Naas. 8/15 favourite and was last of 4 runners by a distance and being hard ridden when he fell badly 4 out.

    On the flip side Death Duty done the business well for Elliot/Gigginstown. Likely to go for the Albert Bartlett according to Elliot.

  13. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I see the much hyped American Tom for Ricci/Mullins/Walsh flopped today at Naas. 8/15 favourite and was last of 4 runners by a distance and being hard ridden when he fell badly 4 out.

    On the flip side Death Duty done the business well for Elliot/Gigginstown. Likely to go for the Albert Bartlett according to Elliot.
    Poor performance although Ricci did say he was a 2m4f horse. Maybe have been outpaced early over 2m. Still, no positives to take from that.

  14. #73
    Coneygree out of the Gold Cup.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  15. #74
    Can't help but feel the Bradstock's are chasing a bit of a lost cause with Coneygree.

    I don't think he will ever return to the heights he hit and it looks like they are really struggling with him.

    He's had his day in the sun and wouldn't mind seeing him retired.

  16. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by jackkennedy1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Can't help but feel the Bradstock's are chasing a bit of a lost cause with Coneygree.

    I don't think he will ever return to the heights he hit and it looks like they are really struggling with him.

    He's had his day in the sun and wouldn't mind seeing him retired.
    Legs are very fragile.

    I'd hate to see another Simonsig situation where a good horse comes to a sad end trying to recapture old form. I agree if he isn't right then he should be retired.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member Hamish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In a house
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,704
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I see the much hyped American Tom for Ricci/Mullins/Walsh flopped today at Naas. 8/15 favourite and was last of 4 runners by a distance and being hard ridden when he fell badly 4 out.

    On the flip side Death Duty done the business well for Elliot/Gigginstown. Likely to go for the Albert Bartlett according to Elliot.
    I am a big fan of Gordon but have to say wasn't overly impressed with Death Duty. Augusta Kate looked just as likely the winner when falling at the last.

    American Tom was never travelling and the fall was horrendous - relieved both horse and jockey were unscathed. I see it was discovered after that the horse had a lung infection so can put a line through that race.
    Last edited by Hamish; 09-01-2017 at 08:15 PM.

  18. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Oliver Sherwood suggesting Many Cloud might run in the Gold Cup.

    Could throw a spanner in the works as he's a proven stayer who won't let anyone have a soft lead if he sets out to make it a stamina test.
    He's already run in it and finished 6th to Coneygree (who's not running in it this year either due to a small injury). There's other front runners in the race, so there could be quite a lot of throatcutting. Trying to find value in the race is tricky. If Djackadam stays at roundabout the 14/1 mark he's a good bet in my opinion, on his Cheltenham form anyway.

  19. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He's already run in it and finished 6th to Coneygree (who's not running in it this year either due to a small injury). There's other front runners in the race, so there could be quite a lot of throatcutting. Trying to find value in the race is tricky. If Djackadam stays at roundabout the 14/1 mark he's a good bet in my opinion, on his Cheltenham form anyway.
    Yep, remember the race well because I had a wedge on Coneygree at 8/1.

    I'm not for a second suggesting Many Clouds will win the Gold Cup, Aintree is his target and Cheltenham will be to get another run under his belt. The addition of a proven stayer over the marathon trips always adds a nice dynamic though, especially if others try to take them on for the lead. Adding Native River into the mix suggests a strong gallop is on the cards. A couple of examples in recent years is when Lord Windemere won the race. Teaforthree was in the field and went off quickly and most of the field fought for position. Davy Russell dropped right out the back and niggled LW to keep him in touch, as mistakes started to happen he powered through the field and won well in the end. Synchronised was another, he was off the bridle from miles out and McCoy produced a masterclass to keep him going, all he did was stay on and he passed the whole field up the hill.

    I wouldn't take anything away from Thistlecracks form. However he did get the run off the race in a small field on his ground at Kempton. Cue Card also ran about 6lbs below his rating. It's also worth remembering that the Cheltenham chase course is a different beast to the hurdles course he knows well. The layout of the hurdles course rewards a high cruising speed as large sections are run on the 'flat'. The chase course, whilst still rewarding speed, is one of the ultimate jumping tests. Timeform ranked all NH chase courses in terms of jumping difficulty and Cheltenham ranked 5th behind Aintree National, Aintree Mildmay, Fakenham and Musselburgh.

    I'm confident Thistlecrack will win and backed him a long while back at 6s so I won't be looking for anything else in te race. I just think he will get a far sterner test than at Kempton. There's a lot of different factors to take into account and I think it will be a better and closer race.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  20. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yep, remember the race well because I had a wedge on Coneygree at 8/1.

    I'm not for a second suggesting Many Clouds will win the Gold Cup, Aintree is his target and Cheltenham will be to get another run under his belt. The addition of a proven stayer over the marathon trips always adds a nice dynamic though, especially if others try to take them on for the lead. Adding Native River into the mix suggests a strong gallop is on the cards. A couple of examples in recent years is when Lord Windemere won the race. Teaforthree was in the field and went off quickly and most of the field fought for position. Davy Russell dropped right out the back and niggled LW to keep him in touch, as mistakes started to happen he powered through the field and won well in the end. Synchronised was another, he was off the bridle from miles out and McCoy produced a masterclass to keep him going, all he did was stay on and he passed the whole field up the hill.

    I wouldn't take anything away from Thistlecracks form. However he did get the run off the race in a small field on his ground at Kempton. Cue Card also ran about 6lbs below his rating. It's also worth remembering that the Cheltenham chase course is a different beast to the hurdles course he knows well. The layout of the hurdles course rewards a high cruising speed as large sections are run on the 'flat'. The chase course, whilst still rewarding speed, is one of the ultimate jumping tests. Timeform ranked all NH chase courses in terms of jumping difficulty and Cheltenham ranked 5th behind Aintree National, Aintree Mildmay, Fakenham and Musselburgh.

    I'm confident Thistlecrack will win and backed him a long while back at 6s so I won't be looking for anything else in te race. I just think he will get a far sterner test than at Kempton. There's a lot of different factors to take into account and I think it will be a better and closer race.
    You're quite right to point out the differences between the hurdles and chase courses, but like you it's difficult to see past Thistlecrack, particularly if he's not odds on. The Lord Windermere race was a bit strange. It really turned into two races after the last, with Silvianaco Conte racing against Bob's Worth on the far side and LW, On His Own and The Giant Bolster on the near side. One of the closest finishes I've ever seen in the Gold Cup. The unlucky one was probably On his Own who was always up there helping to force the pace and was bumped by the 1st and 3rd on the run-in. It's fascinating what you were saying about Timeform's view on chase courses. Fakenham, for example, is a very 'idiosyncratic' unusual course, and often the only horses that win there are horses that often don't run or win anywhere else, kind of like Brighton (a switchback track) on the flat. I'd put Wincanton, Fontwell, Uttoxeter and Kelso up there as more demanding chase courses than either the Mildmay or Musselburgh, but it's down to opinions of course, and I've disagreed with Timeform horse ratings before, so disagreeing with them about this is hardly a surprise.

    I'm also going to be a bit controversial as regards Native River. Great weight-carrying performance in the Welsh National, but I'm struggling to see how he has any form that comes close to Djackadam, Don Cossack, Don Poli or Cue Card, nevermind Thistlecrack. I totally take your point that his best chance probably lies with him trying to force the pace, but again I would say that there's quite a few who like to do that, and I'm not sure he would have the pace to stay with them up the home straight. Now that I've said that he'll probably win by 12 lengths. Tactics, of course will play a huge part. In the Coneygree race, Many Clouds and Smad Place, both horses that like to force the pace, were held up. If I had 100 to spend on the race I'd stick 50 on Thistlecrack on the nose and probably Djackadam or Don Poli e/w, but it certainly won't the first time I've been wrong lol

  21. #80
    As an aside I see Kempton is potentially to be closed and houses built there.

    King George to be moved to Sandown and a new AW circuit built at Newmarket.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  22. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As an aside I see Kempton is potentially to be closed and houses built there.

    King George to be moved to Sandown and a new AW circuit built at Newmarket.
    I can't see how the JC think that's going to make more money for them than Kempton racetrack and their all-weather. It's just a possibility at the moment as you say, but I'm struggling to see the financial sense in it, other than to suit the big stables at newmarket.

  23. #82
    Don Cossack retired.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  24. #83
    @hibs.net private member I'm_cabbaged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Age
    47
    Posts
    4,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Don Cossack retired.
    Nightmare, was looking forward to see a head to head with thistlecrack!!

    Great horse who did me a few favours, apart from falling in the KG 2015, he was my fourth of a lucky 15 with a tenner accy........Was worth 3k

  25. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm_cabbaged View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nightmare, was looking forward to see a head to head with thistlecrack!!

    Great horse who did me a few favours, apart from falling in the KG 2015, he was my fourth of a lucky 15 with a tenner accy........Was worth 3k
    Always like Don Cossack. Looked like a proper old fashioned chaser as opposed to the sleeker French breds that seem to be in fashion at the moment.

    Won me a few quid over the years including in a reverse forecast with Djakadam in last years Gold Cup.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  26. #85
    It's a shame about Don Cossack, he was a very good and generally very reliable horse (apart from the 2015 King George). Did me a few turns at good prices too before he won the Gold Cup.

  27. #86
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    EDINBURGH
    Age
    46
    Posts
    14,114
    Its a great shame re Kempton, The KG just won't be the same at Sandown. Had a few brilliant Boxing Days on the back of a good win on The KG and one particularly painful one when Barton Bank came down at the last when miles clear.

  28. #87
    Nothing massively exciting but thought I'd post anyway. I'm a member of a Facebook group that includes a few owners, trainers, grooms etc and there was bit chat about each way bets in the Gold Cup. Many Clouds was mentioned and someone suggested he won't run and Oliver Sherwood replied with the following:

    He might....Clouds will either run in the Cotswold Chase at Cheltenham, two weeks Saturday or the Betfair Chase at Newbury two weeks after that, where he goes will be ground dependent. I don't want to run him on heavy ground. After that, and depending how he runs, he will either run in the Gold Cup or in the race at Kelso he won last year. If the Gold Cup continues to cut up and the ground was good or good to soft he might run. I have total respect for Thistlecrack and at this stage he does look the most likely winner but you can't be afraid of one horse...anything can happen. The Grand national is still Clouds number one target.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  29. #88
    Cue Card and Djakadam both entered in the Ryanair at Cheltenham.

    For Cue Card Tizzard probably doesn't want to run him against Thistlecrack however I have a feeling although he's won it before, that there may be a few speedier, younger horses who could get the better of him. He is 11 now and the Ryanair is normally a quickly run race and I think he could get outpaced. I would still go Gold Cup with him.

    I wouldn't understand Djakadam going for the Ryanair as I feel 3m+ is his trip. I would hate for the GC to cut up into a 6/7 runner affair and it should be the aim for all 3m steeple chasers whether there is a horse like Thistlecrack or not.

    Personally wouldn't touch TC at 10/11 as I think there's still questions to ask. Cheltenham is a stiffer jumping test than Kempton and the extra 2 1/2 furlongs up the hill has claimed many a good horse.

  30. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by jackkennedy1 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Cue Card and Djakadam both entered in the Ryanair at Cheltenham.

    For Cue Card Tizzard probably doesn't want to run him against Thistlecrack however I have a feeling although he's won it before, that there may be a few speedier, younger horses who could get the better of him. He is 11 now and the Ryanair is normally a quickly run race and I think he could get outpaced. I would still go Gold Cup with him.

    I wouldn't understand Djakadam going for the Ryanair as I feel 3m+ is his trip. I would hate for the GC to cut up into a 6/7 runner affair and it should be the aim for all 3m steeple chasers whether there is a horse like Thistlecrack or not.

    Personally wouldn't touch TC at 10/11 as I think there's still questions to ask. Cheltenham is a stiffer jumping test than Kempton and the extra 2 1/2 furlongs up the hill has claimed many a good horse.
    I just don't think there's all that many real top class 3 mile chasers at the moment.

    It's easy to be negative as we have ovviously seen a real golden era of staying chasers but how many of the Gold Cup field would beat the likes of Kicking King, Kauto Star, Best Mate, Denman, Imperial Commander, Long Run.... even regular bridesmaids like Neptune Collognes, Exotic Dancer and Harbour Pilot?

    Thistlecrack? Cue Card on his day? Not many of the rest imo.

  31. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I just don't think there's all that many real top class 3 mile chasers at the moment.

    It's easy to be negative as we have ovviously seen a real golden era of staying chasers but how many of the Gold Cup field would beat the likes of Kicking King, Kauto Star, Best Mate, Denman, Imperial Commander, Long Run.... even regular bridesmaids like Neptune Collognes, Exotic Dancer and Harbour Pilot?

    Thistlecrack? Cue Card on his day? Not many of the rest imo.
    You're right that this does seem to be a low point in the standard of 3m chasing. However I think that should also encourage a lot of trainers/owners to take a punt at the GC. I said I wouldn't back TC but he is obviously the most likely winner.

    Behind him there's not much by way of class. You've got the proven stayers of Native River, Many Clouds, Djakadam and Don Poli. Middling horses that could perhaps run into a place is everything goes right like Smad Place, Outlander, Valsuer Lido etc. But no real class horses behind TC.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved