The ref. Alan Muir.

[Leithenhibby]

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Not really. The least we should expect is a level playing field when it comes to refereeing. Whilst your point carries some weight, it is totally unacceptable that each game we play is like a Handicap where the officials give the other team a goal of a start (or an extra man as has happened recently)

I agree, but we just need to start looking after ourselves. The game yesterday could have been so different had we got sucked into a scrap.

2nd half put that to bed.

[Marco G]

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Can only think of the offside decision against Brondby. Ref was OK in the away leg.

Well that is one out of two refs! Add the fact that they should have been down to 10 men after a deliberate hand ball by a yellow carded player.

Anyway sorry, I but I am going back a while. E.g Willie Wilson penalised by Clive Thomas for an extra step that got Leeds through. Lots of duff/incompetent refs at ER during Euro matches. Problem is we dont play there enough anymore, but hope that will change.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Speaking to some pars fans this morning that said the ref favoured us especially in the second half. Amazing how opinions differ


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[snooky]

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Yep, but how do we explain away the dire refs we have had in Euro matches!?

Loads of back-handers going on in Europe. Some have come to light however IMO that's just the tip if the iceberg.
Mind you, I could get an international cap for scepticism

[GreenCastle]

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Speaking to some pars fans this morning that said the ref favoured us especially in the second half. Amazing how opinions differ


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He did seem to give us more 2nd half but also some of the stuff he gave us was just wrong so what I'm trying to say is he isn't very good at his paid job of responsibility.

Regarding over the years and refs with Hibs..

A few disallowed goals against Hearts which crossed the line and sendings off against Hearts straight away come to mind during league games.

Refs aren't easy jobs - even in England they are highly scrutinised - but there does need to be better accountability.

I would microphone up the refs like rugby to explain decisions and have a zero tolerance rule to foul lanagaue like rugby also.

[Heisenberg]

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From watching the highlights on Hibs TV, the ref is clearly influenced by the Hibs players reaction. I don't think he would have given a red without that. In that moment when the players were squaring up he looks so inept.

Which I was personally delighted to see after our own players have been sent off because of the opposition reaction in recent weeks. Well done Shinnie and all involved.

[matty_f]

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How do we manage to win any points at all?

If there's widespread bias against Hibs from the officials then surely we'd lose most weeks?

Why don't they just disallow goals and call it offside, or claim there was a foul in the build up etc.

Why don't they just say the ball never crossed the line even if it clearly was? There's nobody inspecting them right? No action will be taken against them so they've nothing to lose.

If you all truly believe there is some kind of bias against us then why not email the club asking them to investigate instead of whining on here.

I wonder what LDs response would be?

I'm no mind reader but I'd imagine that it would be along the lines of disappointment at some recent decisions but that she has no doubt about the integrity of the referees in this country.

Give it a bash and post any reply on here!

They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

[Just Jimmy]

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They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

And they are consistently for one or two teams.

You may be paranoid but it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

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[Bostonhibby]

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They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

The likes of me have had to endure the culture that projected Brian McGinlay, Tiny Wharton and Bobby Davidson to the very top of Scottish refereeing, the structure ain't changed much so I think we are entitled to be a bit cynical when you add up all this relatively recent stuff, and no doubt look at some of the examples that are yet to come!

[GreenLake]

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Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.

[emerald green]

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Truth of the matter is that the standard of refereeing is probably the highest it's ever been.

There's never been a case of corruption or cheating proved in Scottish football and the accusations come from fans of all clubs. If you think it all the way through you need to come up with a bunch of names, meeting secretly to discuss ways of ganging up on Hibs.

Any rational thought would lead you to the outcome that that is nigh on impossible to happen.

Its easy to say the SFA are corrupt. Put some names to it. Where do they meet? Who decides which club they're going to pick on? What's in it for them? Maybe a Masonic lodge somewhere?

They also neeed to do all of this without emails or phone records being discovered.

How long has it been going on? 20 years or more? Man, that is some cover up if true!

Doesn't really seem likely does it?

The problem isn't nearly as bad as made out on the internet. Were things really much better back in the 60s or 70s? Doubt it. They just didn't have a zillion cameras examining every little detail over and over.

Man up and take the knocks when we get them and similarly smile smugly when we get the breaks.

Your argument is so full of holes I'll just refer you to what other posters have said.

Where I do agree with you is that refereeing standards were as bad, if not worse, back in the 60/70/80s. But that's no excuse for allowing those standards to continue today.

I also agree that all clubs supporters complain about certain referees. For example, see Neilson at Hearts comments about Collum - train with 10 men etc. I challenge anyone to look at Craig Thomson's record while in charge of Hibs matches and not think something is amiss. How can anyone defend his record?

There doesn't have to be some sort of organised conspiracy. It can be done more subtly than that.

The bit in bold - do you remember a certain very high profile Scottish referee forwarding on an email about the Pope. He and a number of his colleagues were questioned by the SFA about it after it was leaked to the press. He was subsequently sacked. He got caught. Was that an isolated instance? Doesn't seem likely does it?

[brog]

Just watched the highlights, never a red card for Moffat but the body language of both Shinnie & the Pars player after our pen tells you they both expected a red card. Talking of body language, Muir gives off all the wrong signals. He looks like an incompetent & over fussy school teacher suddenly being asked to ref a senior game. I don't think we tried to get Moffat sent off but our "exuberant" reaction didn't help though Muir seemed to be reaching for a card anyway until it appeared we still had possession. Hibs have always been too nice with regards to wrong decisions, we're the only team I know who consistently take free kicks/throw ins further back than where they're given! Maybe we're finally learning how to manage incompetent refs, I would expect NL to make us a much more streetwise team.

[snooky]

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They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

You'd be hard pressed to compile a list like that where dodgy decisions gave us a win - and not just off the top of your head but with years of research.

[Libby Hibby]

If things even themselves out then, quite simply, we're in for an awful lot of favourable decision in the coming seasons.

Question, how many retrospective decisions have Hibs had overturned in the last 5 seasons? And how many have been overturned by teams who have played us? I would think that there will be far more for Hibs than against us

[StevieT]

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You'd be hard pressed to compile a list like that where dodgy decisions gave us a win - and not just off the top of your head but with years of research.

I can only think of one...Paul Hanlon 'goal' against Dunfermline but I think we had already scored three that day so game was won. I guess that doesn't count as a game changer though.

[WhileTheChief..]

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They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?

[matty_f]

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I can only think of one...Paul Hanlon 'goal' against Dunfermline but I think we had already scored three that day so game was won. I guess that doesn't count as a game changer though.

was in the dying seconds of the game as well.


Struggling for another one.

[matty_f]

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So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?

I think Hibs are well capable of making that point without my input, to be fair.

[emerald green]

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So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?

Many years ago, Tom Hart the late Hibs chairman, had the courage to try to do something about it (cheating) after Rangers were awarded the most disgraceful penalty at ER following a blatant dive by John McDonald (which cost Hibs the match).

Needless to say, he didn't get very far. I might be wrong here, but I think he (Hart) ended up getting fined?

I agree commenting on here has limited effect, if any. I've suggested use of video technology being introduced to assist referees with difficult decisions, but I'm probably wasting my time.

[H18 SFR]

It would be interesting to recap all the absolute shockers of incidents we've had since around the Griffiths 40 yards over the line non-goal

[greenginger]

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Many years ago, Tom Hart the late Hibs chairman, had the courage to try to do something about it (cheating) after Rangers were awarded the most disgraceful penalty at ER following a blatant dive by John McDonald (which cost Hibs the match).

Needless to say, he didn't get very far. I might be wrong here, but I think he (Hart) ended up getting fined?

I agree commenting on here has limited effect, if any. I've suggested use of video technology being introduced to assist referees with difficult decisions, but I'm probably wasting my time.

Yeah, I think he got fined for bringing the game into disrepute, for calling a diver , a diver.

There was a press photo of McDonald sailing through the air and Eric Schaedler had a copy of behind his Easter Road bar with a caption underneath which read " Sports for All - try Diving ".

Shades had a real dislike for the little hun cheat, and the following season when the Rangers came to visit it was somehow arranged that the program pen picture of the player was Shades.

Amongst the information he supplied was his Favourite Actress - John McDonald. Cue , another complaint from the Ibrox ambassadors of sportsmanship.

[emerald green]

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Yeah, I think he got fined for bringing the game into disrepute, for calling a diver , a diver.

There was a press photo of McDonald sailing through the air and Eric Schaedler had a copy of behind his Easter Road bar with a caption underneath which read " Sports for All - try Diving ".

Shades had a real dislike for the little hun cheat, and the following season when the Rangers came to visit it was somehow arranged that the program pen picture of the player was Shades.

Amongst the information he supplied was his Favourite Actress - John McDonald. Cue , another complaint from the Ibrox ambassadors of sportsmanship.

Yep, remember that well.

Favourite Actress - John McDonald.

[majorhibs]

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So fire this list over to Leeann and see what action she takes.

Or maybe someone could ask her about it at the next Working Together group if it's such a big issue?

Commenting on here will get you guys nowhere. Why not try and do something about it?

You, sir, on this topic, are quite simply a slaver. Not just a small slaver, a huge slaver.

[Cropley10]

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They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

Do we also not hold some sort of record for the number of retrospective red cards given to Hearts players AFTER a Derby??!

[lapsedhibee]

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Do we also not hold some sort of record for the number of retrospective red cards given to Hearts players AFTER a Derby??!

Yes, but on the other hand Hearts have never played anyone else in a derby, so it's a slightly hollow claim.

[matty_f]

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Do we also not hold some sort of record for the number of retrospective red cards given to Hearts players AFTER a Derby??!

I think they were on a game per retrospective red card at one point.

[Jonnyboy]

Just got around to watching the highlights on DAFC TV. Red card was never a red card in a million years. Their penalty was soft but SJM did push the guy over as the ball was approaching. Our pen - definite red card as the guy made no attempt to play the ball and I believe that's what the rules now state. Shinnie in the first half was very poor vbut in the second was excellent.

[O'Rourke3]

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Just got around to watching the highlights on DAFC TV..

Those afternoon naps getting longer?

[Seveno]

Perhaps we should congratulate Muir for not sending Bartley off.

[Jonnyboy]

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Those afternoon naps getting longer?