The ref. Alan Muir.

[majorhibs]

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Perhaps we should congratulate Muir for not sending Bartley off.

Nah, would not go down well with his bosses, & probably put him under pressure next time he refs us. Or their just all twisted crooked biased halfwits. Know which version I favour.

[GreenCastle]

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They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

This is a pretty good start.

Plus all the ref cards (suspensions) given after derbies and the red cards we have has rescinded...McGinn last season..Bartley twice already this season.

Anymore ?

[CentreLine]

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They have done those things. We drew a derby we should have win when a clear goal wasn't given. We lost a derby in our relegation season after a clear goal wasn't given.
We missed out on top 6 when Dundee United got a penalty that was outside the box. We missed out on promotion when a clear handball wasn't given, and when their player escaped a red card for the penalty we did get in the second leg.
We lost a cup final after a penalty was given for a foul outside the box, having already seen an opponent have a red card infringement ignored earlier in the game.
We saw The Rangers score against us at Easter Road after the referee ignored a clear foul on Paul Hanlon.
Those are just off the top of my head, not even taking some of the red card we've had that have been rescinded, and the reds that have been awarded to opponents after games.
They're all blatant instances.

At risk of repeating myself. Is there somebody who could put a montage of these events on an internet video. Properly done I'm convinced it would quickly go viral and that in itself would put pressure on the SMSM and also referees to recognise there is an issue to be addressed in the Scottish game generally as well as with Hibs specifically.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

One thing is absolutely clear. Players cheat. Players cheat week in and week out. The refs get hung out to dry when they are conned by cheating players.

[B.H.F.C]

This quote from Darren McGregor sums up the Dunfermline penalty award.

'I’m 
never one for calling refs out, but I asked him and he said 
someone had pushed somebody. But he couldn’t identify who it was from us and who it was from their team'

[CallumLaidlaw]

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This quote from Darren McGregor sums up the Dunfermline penalty award.

'I’m 
never one for calling refs out, but I asked him and he said 
someone had pushed somebody. But he couldn’t identify who it was from us and who it was from their team'

The junior ref I spoke to last week who took the refs side over bartleys red says he cannot see how this is a penalty at all.

[brog]

Our favourite ref Craig T is being slaughtered over yesterday's performance. Although I agree he made some mistakes it was easy to understand why these mistakes were made & at the very least he always appeared in charge of a potentially volatile game. If Celtc or Sevco had been subjected to the serial injustices we've been subjected to over the last few years there would have been riots, edit, that's proper riots! Like an earlier poster I've thought about a video summation but it's way beyond my techy ability. Would love to see though!

[Onion]

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Our favourite ref Craig T is being slaughtered over yesterday's performance. Although I agree he made some mistakes it was easy to understand why these mistakes were made & at the very least he always appeared in charge of a potentially volatile game. If Celtc or Sevco had been subjected to the serial injustices we've been subjected to over the last few years there would have been riots, edit, that's proper riots! Like an earlier poster I've thought about a video summation but it's way beyond my techy ability. Would love to see though!

No real problem with referees making mistakes in OF games. Like No 5 buses, another final or cup win is never too far way for the Bigot Brothers. It's when the mistakes are at key times against other Scottish clubs who have no chance of winning the league and rely on the rare cup wins for silverware. Had Thompson been ref in May 16, we'd be looking at 115 years and counting.

[Big L]

It's systemic thru out the refs in Scottish football! Their is hardly a game played when we are not having players unjustly sent off, penalties wrongly awarded against us and penalties denied us. if it doesn't stop and I mean soon, it will seriously jeopardise our attempt to get out of this league. RP & LD need to do something about this at the very highest level.

[Mikey09]

The one that sticks out for me re incompetent/cheating officials is Sparky's goal at Easter Road against The Famous. The Lino firstly told the Ref it wasn't over the line and at half time after being asked by Hibs players who clearly knew it was in changed his story saying he couldn't see if it had crossed the line so couldn't give it. Make no mistake, officials make things up to go along with there decision making.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Just watched the highlights. The fud blew the whistle and started clapping himself in the middle of the announcers speech to the cowd explaining what the minutes applause was for....!

Absolute fud

[JDHibs]

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It's systemic thru out the refs in Scottish football! Their is hardly a game played when we are not having players unjustly sent off, penalties wrongly awarded against us and penalties denied us. if it doesn't stop and I mean soon, it will seriously jeopardise our attempt to get out of this league. RP & LD need to do something about this at the very highest level.

Calm yourself.

Next you will be screaming "we r da peeepol" at everyone and telling people its a conspiracy against us, everyone hates us and a statement needs put out for everything.

The referees are just piss poor.

[ancient hibee]

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It's systemic thru out the refs in Scottish football! Their is hardly a game played when we are not having players unjustly sent off, penalties wrongly awarded against us and penalties denied us. if it doesn't stop and I mean soon, it will seriously jeopardise our attempt to get out of this league. RP & LD need to do something about this at the very highest level.

No they don't.For promotion all we need is for the players to perform as they should for 90 minutes every week.

[emerald green]

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No they don't.For promotion all we need is for the players to perform as they should for 90 minutes every week.

That's not going to happen if players are being sent off, incorrectly, well before 90 minutes are up.

[snooky]

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One thing is absolutely clear. Players cheat. Players cheat week in and week out. The refs get hung out to dry when they are conned by cheating players.

This is a good point. A refs job is hard enough without all the jersey pulling, diving & feigning injury.
The amount of fouling that goes on in the box before a corner kick is taken is unbelievable. The referee could give a free kick to either the attacking or defending side as the players are all at it.
If a ref does have a bias, he can call any of the legitimate fouls that are committed against his favoured side. This has been going on for years when teams play the OF. e.g. Two players both fouling each other going for a ball - the ref calls it the way that suits his agenda.

[WhileTheChief..]

So is the general consensus on Hibs net that referees all work with some kind of agenda / bias / corruption / cheating involved, specifically targeted against us?

Got to say I'm surprised by this. My feeling is that the game up here is straight and that refs simply make howling errors sometimes.

I'd hate to have that feeling of going into every game thinking the odds were stacked against us before a ball was even kicked.

[worcesterhibby]

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So is the general consensus on Hibs net that referees all work with some kind of agenda / bias / corruption / cheating involved, specifically targeted against us?

Got to say I'm surprised by this. My feeling is that the game up here is straight and that refs simply make howling errors sometimes.

I'd hate to have that feeling of going into every game thinking the odds were stacked against us before a ball was even kicked.

No there is not a consensus as the vast majority of Hibs.netters have just read the posts and not contributed.

IMHO The vast majority of poor decisions that Hibs get are just incompetence or honest mistakes (c'mon Ref's are allowed to make them, none of us are perfect)..a few might be because the ref himself is biased (C Thompson for instance) but I personally very much doubt there is a conspiracy.

I sometimes wonder if part of the issue is that particularly under fenlon and Stubbs, Hibs players were not encouraged to scream in the Refs face and wave imaginary cards during the game, yet other teams like Houstons Falkirk and every Rangers team that has ever existed, do. Ref's do bend to pressure, maybe we have shown too much "Hibs Class" in the past and that may be the main contributory pressure on the Ref's.

[northstandhibby]

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No there is not a consensus as the vast majority of Hibs.netters have just read the posts and not contributed.

IMHO The vast majority of poor decisions that Hibs get are just incompetence or honest mistakes (c'mon Ref's are allowed to make them, none of us are perfect)..a few might be because the ref himself is biased (C Thompson for instance) but I personally very much doubt there is a conspiracy.

I sometimes wonder if part of the issue is that particularly under fenlon and Stubbs, Hibs players were not encouraged to scream in the Refs face and wave imaginary cards during the game, yet other teams like Houstons Falkirk and every Rangers team that has ever existed, do. Ref's do bend to pressure, maybe we have shown too much "Hibs Class" in the past and that may be the main contributory pressure on the Ref's.

There doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

The SFA only develop referees who fit in with most of their key descriptors. I genuinely hope I don't have to detail the key descriptors - see not a conspiracy merely I would expect most hi bees to 'understand' what I am merely hinting at.

There is no doubt Alan Muir could not be sure if there was a push or an unintentional coming together on Saturday therefore he took the opportunity to give a penalty against us.

An expected decision one which certain people in the sfa would say well done Alan.

Craig Thompson is undoubtedly another - look at the good goal he chalked off against the huns on Sunday.

Steven McClean is not such a one or we would never have won the holy grail. I wonder if there were voices requesting a referee like Thompson was not allowed to be anywhere near our cup win.

GGTTH

[WhileTheChief..]

^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

[JDHibs]

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^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

10/10

[northstandhibby]

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^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

You have a point of view not one I agree with but nether the less it is a point of view.



GGTTH

[Danderhall Hibs]

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^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

I don't think it's a conspiracy but I do wonder how it never evens itself out and I'm talking about some real howlers. It's hard to believe it's "just" incompetence.

And btw I thought Thomson did favour Rangers at the weekend.

[lapsedhibee]

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^^^ Your post is a bit of a conspiracy theory though!

What are the descriptors you refer to? I'll assume you mean religion for a minute.

If Craig Thomson favoured Hearts in the final then surely he would have been favouring Rangers at the weekend?

Are you seriously saying that referees are only recruited if they follow a particular religion?

And who are the SFA people that would have said well done Alan? You can't just throw accusations like that about. It's an easy criticism to make without any thought. Name names.

Another thought, wouldn't our sponsors have something to say about it? I can't imagine Marathon Bet would want to be associated with a tainted sport. Same for BT and Sky.

Apologies that I keep banging on about this but to me it's such an important issue that if it's to be discussed it has to be viewed from both sides of the argument.

You are effectively saying saying that the sport up here is corrupt. If this is true then the police or fraud squad or whoever should be notified due to the sums of money involved in the game.

We lost out on how much by missing promotion last season? If that's down to the ref in the playoff game then that is a huge issue. I'd expect the club to be taking legal action to redress the situation.

If our Club does nothing about it then we are in effect complicit in the corruption especially with RP and LD holding such senior positions within the game.

See when you start to think it all through it's not really as simple as saying so and so cheated.

Think of the risk the refs would be taking. Most of them will be employed, some holding senior positions with their employer. Why risk their own integrity and livelihoods just to knock Hibs? It makes no sense to me at all.

Anyways, I appreciate I'm going against the tide here and won't change anybody's opinion on the subject but I do genuinely feel for you guys that think the game is screwed, it must really suck going into each game with that mindset.

You do realise that the expressions "West of Scotland football supporters" and "Scottish Cup supporters" weren't simply invented here on this board? You write as if there is no bias at all in the Scottish game and its coverage. Why, do you think, would Scott Brown say that for the same indiscretion he got booked at Hibs and only spoken to at Celtc?

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm only talking about the allegations levelled against the refs being biased, cheats or corrupt.

I've not mentioned the coverage we receive at all.

If they are cheats then absolutely nothing else in the game matters at all. It's over.

[ACLeith]

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I'm only talking about the allegations levelled against the refs being biased, cheats or corrupt.

I've not mentioned the coverage we receive at all.

If they are cheats then absolutely nothing else in the game matters at all. It's over.

Let's put the word "Cheats" aside.

As a Hibs supporter from a very early age, if I then had become a Grade 1 official I would stop going to matches in case I was spotted, though I would still look for our results and cheer us on from my armchair.

I am then allocated a Hearts or a The Rangers game and as in every match have to make split-second decisions. Does a foul merit a talking to/yellow/red card? Offside or onside? Goal kick or corner? Penalty or fair challenge? etc. All of these could have a major impact on the game and although I went out with the intention of being fair, in spite of that would my background mean I instinctively make that decision against Hearts or The Rangers?

If so, does that make me a "cheat"?

Maybe that's why in England referees have to declare allegiances. Here of course the law of averages means that the majority of referees would declare for The Rangers or Celtic, which would limit the choice of allocated referees.

The solution? Bring back the Maltesers

[snooky]

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Let's put the word "Cheats" aside.

As a Hibs supporter from a very early age, if I then had become a Grade 1 official I would stop going to matches in case I was spotted, though I would still look for our results and cheer us on from my armchair.

I am then allocated a Hearts or a The Rangers game and as in every match have to make split-second decisions. Does a foul merit a talking to/yellow/red card? Offside or onside? Goal kick or corner? Penalty or fair challenge? etc. All of these could have a major impact on the game and although I went out with the intention of being fair, in spite of that would my background mean I instinctively make that decision against Hearts or The Rangers?

If so, does that make me a "cheat"?

Maybe that's why in England referees have to declare allegiances. Here of course the law of averages means that the majority of referees would declare for The Rangers or Celtic, which would limit the choice of allocated referees.

The solution? Bring back the Maltesers

Better to stop us playing with soft centres

[ACLeith]

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Better to stop us playing with soft centres

😀😀😀👍👍👍

[lapsedhibee]

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I'm only talking about the allegations levelled against the refs being biased, cheats or corrupt.

Why, do you think, would Scott Brown say that for the same indiscretion he got booked at Hibs and only spoken to at Celtc?

[brog]

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Why, do you think, would Scott Brown say that for the same indiscretion he got booked at Hibs and only spoken to at Celtc?

Sort of makes nonsense of the religion theory though, does it not? I posted earlier about Bobby Tait, the rabid Rangers ref who has openly owned up to his bias in favour of Oldco. The only ref ever to have provided the 1st pass in a goalscoring move for Oldco. He's retired but I'm sure there's others of a similar persuasion & yet I still feel 90% of errors are down to incompetence. Quite simply Alan Muir is not fit to referee at any level.

[lapsedhibee]

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Sort of makes nonsense of the religion theory though, does it not? I posted earlier about Bobby Tait, the rabid Rangers ref who has openly owned up to his bias in favour of Oldco. The only ref ever to have provided the 1st pass in a goalscoring move for Oldco. He's retired but I'm sure there's others of a similar persuasion & yet I still feel 90% of errors are down to incompetence. Quite simply Alan Muir is not fit to referee at any level.

If only 90% of errors are down to incompetence, that leaves another 10% down to what?

I don't think there's any question whatsoever that the whole game in Scotland is twisted to suit The Thes and Celtc, and further that Jack Regan was probably right when he used to argue at length on this board that between The Thes and Celtc, The Thes get a helping hand. Whether that's down to The Thes being the traditionally proddy club or being the traditionally establishment club I dunno.