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  1. #1
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    The future of the Labour Party

    I decided not to post this in the Leadership thread as that contest is all but over. Corbyn will be declared winner by a huge margin.

    So what does the future hold for Labour?

    What with the exposure of Momentum promised by Channel 4 Dispatches already to be viewed tomorrow night, Panorama will make it a very busy night for those concerned about the future of the Party!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07x0bvx
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  3. #2
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    This obviously belongs in here; too.

    One view as to what should happen. A view to which I'm increasingly warming.

    http://newpolitics.apps-1and1.net/th...nista-populism

  4. #3
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    This obviously belongs in here; too.

    One view as to what should happen. A view to which I'm increasingly warming.

    http://newpolitics.apps-1and1.net/th...nista-populism
    Think you posted that yesterday.

  5. #4
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    Think you posted that yesterday.
    Yes, which is why I said that it actually belonged in here.

    When you've lost the argument, find fault with the grammar, the spelling or something.

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  6. #5
    The best scenario for me is Corbyn wins and the party get pumped at the next election. Then a critical mass of his followers will accept the need to have what the media/public consider an electable leader and they can start again from there.

    Smith winning is a more worrying scenario that will take longer to solve. He would also get pumped at the next election (the fact he considers himself a PM material is hilarious) and then there's a huge call to get Corbyn or someone similar in charge and they're back when they started. And that's if they haven't split by then.

    Just my opinion of course, would be interesting to see others views on how they solve this.

  7. #6
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmesdale Hibs View Post
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    The best scenario for me is Corbyn wins and the party get pumped at the next election. Then a critical mass of his followers will accept the need to have what the media/public consider an electable leader and they can start again from there.

    Smith winning is a more worrying scenario that will take longer to solve. He would also get pumped at the next election (the fact he considers himself a PM material is hilarious) and then there's a huge call to get Corbyn or someone similar in charge and they're back when they started. And that's if they haven't split by then.

    Just my opinion of course, would be interesting to see others views on how they solve this.
    I think the Labour Party is finished as a Parliamentary Party, I very much doubt that they will be forming a Government again. Corbyn will win this contest easily and Momentum's grip on the party will see a lot of current Labour Mp's deselected. It can only end with a split, there won't be anything left after the next election to move forward with.
    Last edited by marinello59; 20-09-2016 at 02:30 PM.
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  8. #7
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmesdale Hibs View Post
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    The best scenario for me is Corbyn wins and the party get pumped at the next election. Then a critical mass of his followers will accept the need to have what the media/public consider an electable leader and they can start again from there.

    Smith winning is a more worrying scenario that will take longer to solve. He would also get pumped at the next election (the fact he considers himself a PM material is hilarious) and then there's a huge call to get Corbyn or someone similar in charge and they're back when they started. And that's if they haven't split by then.

    Just my opinion of course, would be interesting to see others views on how they solve this.
    I'd like your analysis to be correct, but I'm 100% certain that Momentum and the rest of the Trots don't care about winning an election.

    Corbyn can stay leader for as long as he says the things that his worshipers want to hear. He's always going to be able to blame someone else, be it the MSM, "Blairites" or the PLP.

    The new £3 members who aren't Trots or Greens or Tories are relatively wealthy, middle class, born-again lefties and seem to be a combination of folk reliving their radical student days and others making up for missing out on that phase, 30 or 40 years ago!

    They're not worried about the Tories being in power for the next decade or more, because they know they'll be well looked after during that time.

    They're not on benefits or working for minimum wage or on zero hours contracts. They can afford to protest righteously from their comfortable sidelines.

    In the meantime, RIP Labour Party and any real hope for those who need it so desperately and need it now.
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 20-09-2016 at 02:43 PM.

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    The same private production company behind both Dispatches and Panorama programmes last night. The end is nigh, and my popcorn is just about finished.

    https://t.co/TyPbL0jFdA

    This is a great piece all the way from Scandinavia, on how they see Corbyn and his policies.

    https://t.co/3qGGVj9LCP
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 20-09-2016 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #9
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    The same private production company behind both Dispatches and Panorama programmes last night. The end is nigh, and my popcorn is just about finished.

    https://t.co/TyPbL0jFdA

    This is a great piece all the way from Scandinavia, on how they see Corbyn and his policies.

    https://t.co/3qGGVj9LCP
    Maybe he should move there.

    He's going down like a lead balloon in England. He's already floored in Caledonia.
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  11. #10
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    I think the Labour Party is finished as a Parliamentary Party, I very much doubt that they will be forming a Government again. Corbyn will win this contest easily and Momentum's grip on the party will see a lot of current Labour Mp's deselected. It can only end with a split, there won't be anything left after the next election to move forward with.
    I probably agree, but there may be hope, although it's the Telegraph so you're clearly obliged to interpret the words as manipulative lies.

    "The thing is that while for Corbynistas party membership is a lifestyle choice – they don’t want, or need, a Labour government – it is different for union members. The UNISON members who work in the NHS, the UNITE members who drive buses, the low paid workers facing pay cuts as the disastrous and punitive Universal Credit replaces tax credits – they all desperately need a Labour government. That pressure from members will only increase, and eventually it will be responded to – the industrial wing of the labour movement will rescue Labour from itself because it needs a parliamentary wing to effect change."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/19/jeremy-corbyn-will-keep-on-fighting-but-labour-moderates-wont-gi/
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 20-09-2016 at 07:25 PM.

  12. #11
    Old Codger Hibstorian Jonnyboy's Avatar
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    This is how it feels

  13. #12
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    The same private production company behind both Dispatches and Panorama programmes last night. The end is nigh, and my popcorn is just about finished.

    https://t.co/TyPbL0jFdA

    This is a great piece all the way from Scandinavia, on how they see Corbyn and his policies.

    https://t.co/3qGGVj9LCP
    An excellent piece. Demonstrates the disconnect between what we are told is radical or extreme and the reality. It just isn't possible to have a policy of mixed economy without it being jumped all over by the establishment. Neither it is possible to have any alternatives to the centre-right neo liberal consensus. Behind all the mockery of course, they are scared ****less of Corbyn, which is why the coup has taken place and the Labour Party is now in disarray.
    Last edited by hibsbollah; 20-09-2016 at 09:10 PM.

  14. #13
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
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    I think it's evidence that the plotters don't give a monkeys about the Party, but instead of doing the honourable 'set up a SDP' thing they are trying to do damage to it from the inside before they leave.

    The old Labour-Tories duopoly was on borrowed time anyway, but the way things are going I can't see it lasting the year.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    I'm hearing that Scottish Labour are to be fully autonomous (think it's the third time this year), although bad news for the Corbynistas, purging of members will not be devolved, they'll only be allowed to advise.

    Fully autonomous must mean something different to the NEC.

    New popcorn needed.

  16. #15
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    An excellent piece. Demonstrates the disconnect between what we are told is radical or extreme and the reality. It just isn't possible to have a policy of mixed economy without it being jumped all over by the establishment. Neither it is possible to have any alternatives to the centre-right neo liberal consensus. Behind all the mockery of course, they are scared ****less of Corbyn, which is why the coup has taken place and the Labour Party is now in disarray.
    Spot the trot buzzwords😂😂😂
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  17. #16
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I think it's evidence that the plotters don't give a monkeys about the Party, but instead of doing the honourable 'set up a SDP' thing they are trying to do damage to it from the inside before they leave.

    The old Labour-Tories duopoly was on borrowed time anyway, but the way things are going I can't see it lasting the year.
    lol

    On a more serious note, note how" centre-left " is never used as a description in Trot statements.

    Bammy Trots out lefting each other.

    Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 20-09-2016 at 11:51 PM.
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  18. #17
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I'm hearing that Scottish Labour are to be fully autonomous (think it's the third time this year), although bad news for the Corbynistas, purging of members will not be devolved, they'll only be allowed to advise.

    Fully autonomous must mean something different to the NEC.

    New popcorn needed.
    Scottish Labour might as well pack up and join the SNP.

    Unless they're anti Blairism that is.
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  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Scottish Labour might as well pack up and join the SNP.

    Unless they're anti Blairism that is.
    Most of them have.

    You might like this.

    Cs07o4AW8AQ1bIU.jpg
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 21-09-2016 at 08:06 AM.

  20. #19
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Most of them have.

    You might like this.

    Cs07o4AW8AQ1bIU.jpg


    You really are enjoying yourself these days, Ronnie!
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  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member The_Exile's Avatar
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    It's painful to watch the "party of the people" implode like this. Labour are obviously no longer what they once were and although a large section of labour voters would vote for a monkey wearing a red rosette, I feel they aren't really going to be relevant any time in the immediate future. For politics to work well you need strong opposition as well as strong leadership and I don't really see either of those in Westminster at the current time.

    I personally don't see what all the fuss is about Corbyn, it's not that he's too radically left, it's that British politics has shifted so much to the right that he's being portrayed the way he is. May we live in interesting times.........

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Exile View Post
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    It's painful to watch the "party of the people" implode like this. Labour are obviously no longer what they once were and although a large section of labour voters would vote for a monkey wearing a red rosette, I feel they aren't really going to be relevant any time in the immediate future. For politics to work well you need strong opposition as well as strong leadership and I don't really see either of those in Westminster at the current time.

    I personally don't see what all the fuss is about Corbyn, it's not that he's too radically left, it's that British politics has shifted so much to the right that he's being portrayed the way he is. May we live in interesting times.........
    His problem is that he hasn't come out of nowhere: he's spent 30 years being noteworthy for voting against his own party and supporting Marxists, Irish republicans, radical Islamists, etc. His by now not-especially-radical domestic policies will never get a fair hearing because he's been tagged with the label of extremist.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member AndyM_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    His problem is that he hasn't come out of nowhere: he's spent 30 years being noteworthy for voting against his own party and supporting Marxists, Irish republicans, radical Islamists, etc. His by now not-especially-radical domestic policies will never get a fair hearing because he's been tagged with the label of extremist.
    All of which will go up on Tory adverts and billboards at the next election.
    Add all that to the fact that he's a pretty rotten leader.

    I was recently spending time with my family in the south of England and there is real dislike of Corbyn, and these are folk who voted for Tony Blair at 3 elections. Up here Corbyn is seen as mildly interesting but really not very relevant to politics in Scotland. In England, especially in the in the swing seats Labour has to win to get elected he's seen as too left wing, too London and too old. Theresa May is seen as the 'sensible choice'.
    Was all very disheartening to hear.
    Last edited by AndyM_1875; 22-09-2016 at 12:44 PM.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    The Branch office leader has failed to active her button Oops indeed.

    Cs_HEFbWYAQp_iv.jpg

  25. #24
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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  26. #25
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Britain Elects (@britainelects) tweeted at 9:15 p.m. on Sun, Sep 25, 2016:

    Scottish Westminster voting intention:
    SNP: 50%
    CON: 21%
    LAB: 16%
    LDEM: 5%
    GRN: 4%
    UKIP: 4%
    (via Panelbase)

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Anybody on here live near or in the Braes area of Falkirk?

    The upcoming elections in the area seem to be hitting the headlines. Labour to stand aside for their Tory pals.

    https://t.co/0DwyE6YU6L

  28. #27
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Anybody on here live near or in the Braes area of Falkirk?

    The upcoming elections in the area seem to be hitting the headlines. Labour to stand aside for their Tory pals.

    https://t.co/0DwyE6YU6L

    If that's true you will be delighted. Labour knackered out of the way so that you can see off the Tories. All those Labour voters will surely vote SNP won't they?

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Mainly rural area south of Falkirk, includes the villages of Slammanan, Avonbridge, Shieldhill, California, Brightons and Maddiston. some affluent areas. so there may be some tories to be found, but not sure there would be enough, including Labour turncoats, to dislodge an SNP candidate.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    If that's true you will be delighted. Labour knackered out of the way so that you can see off the Tories. All those Labour voters will surely vote SNP won't they?
    That's a NO from you then, as always.

  31. #30
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    One branch does not decide how many candidates are put up. It's taken at council wide form level. That's not to say in some multi member wards that tactical decisions on the number candidates won't be taken. In my own ward at present it's 2 labour and 2 nats. We are fielding 2 candidates but I suspect the nats will try for 3 but it will split their vote with STV system we have which could give us a second seat or Tories one.

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