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  1. #1771
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Constructive ambiguity is what it is being called. Its classic EU negotiation, brinkmanship, last minute hick-up with deal hanging by a thread, with it all being salvaged atbthe ladt minute with all sides happy.

    To be fair, it seems a pretty reasonable compromise - kinda makes you wonder why it took 18 months to get to it though.
    I know it's being called that, but it's not constructive or ambiguous if, like a friend of mine, youve lost your right to travel freely from his home in France to Italy a few hours away. No detail but lots of assumptions. It could be that Farages anger, May's smug pleasure or the DUPs worry are manufactured responses.


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  3. #1772
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I know it's being called that, but it's not constructive or ambiguous if, like a friend of mine, youve lost your right to travel freely from his home in France to Italy a few hours away. No detail but lots of assumptions. It could be that Farages anger, May's smug pleasure or the DUPs worry are manufactured responses.
    Looks like I'll be forced to take on German citizenship if I want to keep my job as it involves travelling around Europe. My retirement plans have also taken a knock and simply travelling home over land will likely become a severe pain in the arse as things stand. Utter madness.

  4. #1773
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I know it's being called that, but it's not constructive or ambiguous if, like a friend of mine, youve lost your right to travel freely from his home in France to Italy a few hours away. No detail but lots of assumptions. It could be that Farages anger, May's smug pleasure or the DUPs worry are manufactured responses.
    Wow. So its bad deal? You do realise that a deal for two blocs repreaenting 65million and 400million people respectively might not work perfectly for every individual?

    Anyway i didnt negotiate the deal, take it up with messrs May and Junker.

    Given where we were a couple of days ago, it seems a decent compromise. And its not a deal yet, until everything else is agreed amd its turned into a legal treaty.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 08-12-2017 at 10:33 PM.

  5. #1774
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Wow. So its bad deal? You do realise that a deal for two blocs repreaenting 65million and 400million people respectively might not work perfectly for every individual?

    Anyway i didnt negotiate the deal, take it up with messrs May and Junker.

    Given where we were a couple of days ago, it seems a decent compromise. And its not a deal yet, until everything else is agreed amd its turned into a legal treaty.
    No need for the fake surprise 'wow'. Or the irony. I was asking for clarity about what the proposal/agreement/deal actually entails. I have two practical examples of what the deal means for people. You haven't provided any. Which suggests you don't have any more clarity than me as to whether it's good or bad.

  6. #1775
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    No need for the fake surprise 'wow'. Or the irony. I was asking for clarity about what the proposal/agreement/deal actually entails. I have two practical examples of what the deal means for people. You haven't provided any. Which suggests you don't have any more clarity than me as to whether it's good or bad.
    This whole conversation started because i said it was 'constructive ambiguity', the phrase you took issue with. Its not supposed to be clear, thats the whole point. Its vague enough that everyone can take what they want from it - classic EU fudge to allow us to move on to the next phase in negotiations.

    As for your two pals, i dont know about that im afraid - but the comment about this not being about the status of your two pals, amd being about bigger issues still stands.

    So if you know about the deal and its implications, what do you need clarity on?

    Well i know that the deal has moved us on past the sticking points, without throwing NI back into violence, and without drawing arbitrary borders within out country (at least for the time being). I also know that for the first time in months, maybe years, all sides of political spectrum, remain/brexit, amd the EU and British govts are all happy - that is a good outcome in my book, and so im happy that i know enough to know its a good deal.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 08-12-2017 at 11:17 PM.

  7. #1776
    I'm a human being goddamnit, my life has value! Mr White's Avatar
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    Feels like it's time to finally apply for an Irish passport. I think I'd prefer to remain an EU citizen all things considered.

  8. #1777
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr White View Post
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    Feels like it's time to finally apply for an Irish passport. I think I'd prefer to remain an EU citizen all things considered.
    Well you support a club founded by irishmen, so why not embrace your irishness too 😉

  9. #1778
    I'm a human being goddamnit, my life has value! Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Well you support a club founded by irishmen, so why not embrace your irishness too 😉
    In a word... cost. I looked into it years ago but just about puked at the fees back then

    I'll need to dig deep... and hope my mum knows where her birth and marriage certificates are. That could be a challenge actually.
    Last edited by Mr White; 09-12-2017 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #1779
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Wow. So its bad deal? You do realise that a deal for two blocs repreaenting 65million and 400million people respectively might not work perfectly for every individual?

    Anyway i didnt negotiate the deal, take it up with messrs May and Junker.

    Given where we were a couple of days ago, it seems a decent compromise. And its not a deal yet, until everything else is agreed amd its turned into a legal treaty.
    Itís a terrible deal. Compared to what we have right now itís a huge step back. I realise youíre trying to make the best of a bad situation, but this is just the beginning of everything getting harder and worse for everyone. The EU donít want to look weak and the UK government are being led by people who couldnít run a piss up in a brewery.
    What a ****ing shambles.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  11. #1780
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Itís a terrible deal. Compared to what we have right now itís a huge step back. I realise youíre trying to make the best of a bad situation, but this is just the beginning of everything getting harder and worse for everyone. The EU donít want to look weak and the UK government are being led by people who couldnít run a piss up in a brewery.
    What a ****ing shambles.
    Agreed. But the status quo is not an option anymore, that ship jas sailed. It literally is now about making the best of a situation that i certainly didnt vote for. In that context, im pleased we have moved on to the nitty gritty of the discussions.

    But i do absolutely take your point.

  12. #1781
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    The UK is the least powerful nation in western Europe. Beside us, Ireland is a collusus. Malta and Luxembourg could safely chuck sand in our eye.

  13. #1782
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    This whole conversation started because i said it was 'constructive ambiguity', the phrase you took issue with. Its not supposed to be clear, thats the whole point. Its vague enough that everyone can take what they want from it - classic EU fudge to allow us to move on to the next phase in negotiations.

    As for your two pals, i dont know about that im afraid - but the comment about this not being about the status of your two pals, amd being about bigger issues still stands.

    So if you know about the deal and its implications, what do you need clarity on?

    Well i know that the deal has moved us on past the sticking points, without throwing NI back into violence, and without drawing arbitrary borders within out country (at least for the time being). I also know that for the first time in months, maybe years, all sides of political spectrum, remain/brexit, amd the EU and British govts are all happy - that is a good outcome in my book, and so im happy that i know enough to know its a good deal.
    Youve missed my point, again, but since you're obviously not interested in engaging with any other angle than your own, just move on.

  14. #1783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    You are Keith Joseph and I claim my £10

    Though I do agree with your broader point about impact assessments
    Ha ha well I doubt my ramblings on here will have the same impact as some of Joseph's

  15. #1784
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Agreed. But the status quo is not an option anymore, that ship jas sailed. It literally is now about making the best of a situation that i certainly didnt vote for. In that context, im pleased we have moved on to the nitty gritty of the discussions.

    But i do absolutely take your point.
    Put the final deal to a vote and the ship hasnít sailed.

    Iíd be up for that

    J
    Last edited by Bristolhibby; 09-12-2017 at 10:30 AM.

  16. #1785
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Thank god for the Irish. When the DUP, and the hard brexiteers get hold of the devil in the detail, we'll be back to a cliff edge.

    https://t.co/cUA3Sks0Lt

  17. #1786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristolhibby View Post
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    Put the final deal to a vote and the ship hasnít sailed.

    Iíd be up for that

    J
    Maybe yeah - but thats unlikely.

  18. #1787
    I'm a human being goddamnit, my life has value! Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Thank god for the Irish. When the DUP, and the hard brexiteers get hold of the devil in the detail, we'll be back to a cliff edge.

    https://t.co/cUA3Sks0Lt
    As the Irish government pointed out this week it's ironic that the DUP have such a big say in all this since NI voted to remain in the EU, they don't represent the majority of the Northern Irish electorate on the issue. Not that that'll concern them in the slightest of course as they have no problem twisting and blocking democracy.

  19. #1788
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    How difficult is it to build a bridge between northern Ireland and Scotland. No borders
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  20. #1789
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Northern Ireland will still be able to get Irish passport due to the good Friday agreement. They will still have access to full EU citizenship!!!!

    And the rest of the UK can get lost.

    EU and Japan have just signed the largest free trade agreement. Nice one leave campaign.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  21. #1790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Northern Ireland will still be able to get Irish passport due to the good Friday agreement. They will still have access to full EU citizenship!!!!

    And the rest of the UK can get lost.
    Thank god we voted no in 14.

    On the NI angle though, ďourĒ bunch are effectively kicking it in to the long grass in the hope something works out over the next year that allows a final deal to be made, like the last 1000 years were drunk. The EU are hoping that thereíll be a change in direction/ government that is happy to keep us in the single market.

  22. #1791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Northern Ireland will still be able to get Irish passport due to the good Friday agreement. They will still have access to full EU citizenship!!!!

    And the rest of the UK can get lost.

    EU and Japan have just signed the largest free trade agreement. Nice one leave campaign.
    I hope we can have UK wide regulatory alignment on that one, then.

    Iím very keen to get an EU passport.

  23. #1792
    @hibs.net private member McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    I hope we can have UK wide regulatory alignment on that one, then.

    Iím very keen to get an EU passport.

    Wasnt that what the DUP have said, that they wonít vote for a deal where NI are treated differently to the rest of the UK?

    Apologies if Iíve misunderstood that

  24. #1793
    I'm a human being goddamnit, my life has value! Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    Wasnt that what the DUP have said, that they wonít vote for a deal where NI are treated differently to the rest of the UK?

    Apologies if Iíve misunderstood that
    They'd probably be quite happy to scrap the rule that anyone born in NI is entitled to ROI citizenship. Thankfully it's out of their hands.

  25. #1794
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD View Post
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    Wasnt that what the DUP have said, that they wonít vote for a deal where NI are treated differently to the rest of the UK?

    Apologies if Iíve misunderstood that
    So long as it's different enough to allow them to ban same sex marriage and abortion.

    Utter cretins

  26. #1795
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    We will get to have 'iconic' blue passports again. At what cost to the country?

    FWIW I discovered my 1978 'iconic' blue passport, and it is decidedly not blue.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  27. #1796
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    We will get to have 'iconic' blue passports again. At what cost to the country?

    FWIW I discovered my 1978 'iconic' blue passport, and it is decidedly not blue.
    It's kind of black/blue, wasn't it? On the other hand, anything to remove maroon things from the planet should be applauded. Hurrah for the Conservative Party!

  28. #1797
    Latest polling on Brexit:

    http://www.comresglobal.com/polls/18394/

    43% favour a 2nd ref and if held, Remain ahead 55% - 45%

    31% confident of a good deal, 65% not confident.

  29. #1798
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    I know itís an advert, but every time I see it, it sums up my attitude to brexit
    https://youtu.be/V-1UNaA92fg

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  30. #1799
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I know itís an advert, but every time I see it, it sums up my attitude to brexit
    https://youtu.be/V-1UNaA92fg
    That's we shouldn't be tied to Europe and that we could trade and interact freely with the rest of the world ourselves?

  31. #1800
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    That's we shouldn't be tied to Europe and that we could trade and interact freely with the rest of the world ourselves?
    No, that what makes our country what it is, is diversity and the influence of immigration 😜

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

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