hibs.net Messageboard

Page 85 of 85 FirstFirst ... 3575838485
Results 2,521 to 2,540 of 2540
  1. #2521
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Its too late now for me to articulate this properly but I think I agree, but I think May knew what was coming and is playing it as best she can (which is a complex agenda in itself), despite how ridiculous that sounds.

    It feels like a chess game, where you know you are being defeated around ten moves away. You can go for a quick sacrifice or you can prolong it to the very last move before succumbing to the inevitable.

    I think she knew she was ten moves away and has chosen to drag it out. I think this is on the basis that her chess game isnít against one opponent but two, namely the EU and the Brexiteers.

    My sense is that the EU have played a blinder on Europe. Making the Irish border the keystone issue brings in UK sovereignty over NI and the the DUP fear itís a backdrop to 32 counties into play. Thatís unwinnable for her.

    Best guess is a collapse of government before the end date, the EU kindly allow a delay in exit (which they would) and a new GE.

    The idealist in me hopes that we could get some sort of plebiscite around staying in, regardless of party. People never thought we could have a coalition government as we had got so used to two-party, first past the post politics but in truth, British history isnít short of fudges and compromises when push comes to shove.

    What that means post not-Brexit, who knows?
    On the chess thing, the Germans have a word for it. ďZugzwangĒ - being compelled to move even though you know it's detrimental.

    Learning that is the only good brexit thing thatís happened to me this week.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #2522
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm no fan of Brexit, but given we are where we are, I don't see what else May can do. No British PM can accept the EU carving up the UK (or being perceived to be). It's never going to be acceptable, never mind the fact that the dup can bring the whole govt down.

    I think she has to now double down on it, and look to walk away with a no deal. The UK can say that we won't impose a hard border in Ireland, and if the republic chooses to, then that's their call - they are choosing the EU over their northern Irish neighbours.

    Don't get me wrong, I wish we weren't here, but given that we are and the intransigence on both sides, it's hard to see a way out.

    However, European negotiations have a history of rescuing negotiations from apparently impossible situations. But it doesn't look like anyone is preparing to blink!
    If you think May has done well with this, you havenít been paying attention.

    Sheís had a weak hand and played it extremely badly.

  4. #2523
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Age
    40
    Posts
    7,481
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you think May has done well with this, you havenít been paying attention.

    Sheís had a weak hand and played it extremely badly.
    Her biggest mistake was accepting that hand when it was offered. Since then it has been inevitable mistake after inevitable mistake.

    I would feel sorry for her, only she knew what she was getting into, hubris prevented her from declining the opportunity.

    To be honest I've warmed a bit more to her lately, but I think that's more to do with the dancing like a teacher at a school disco than anything she's done politically.

  5. #2524
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Age
    40
    Posts
    35,933
    Blog Entries
    1
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: franck sauzee
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Keeping control of our borders is one of the key principles of the leave campaign. The UK government can't just leave NI open to the EU.
    The leave campaigners were not in a position to make post-Brexit promises or policies though, they weren't elected or in policy making positions in the government to do so.

    The infamous NHS bus is a prime example - we'll save all this money and put it in to the NHS... how can they make that promise when they've no mandate to do so. Even winning the referendum didn't give them a mandate to dictate the post-brexit landscape, which is another reason for the mess that May finds herself in.

    The information video the Tories put out about the Chequers deal mentioned that not having control of our borders was against the Brexit that people voted for so was out of the question for any deal - the Brexit vote had no other question that leave or remain, there was no type of Brexit mentioned, so how's she decided that the border was the fundamental part that people voted for.

    The whole thing is a mess, a shambles. It should be stopped for the good of the country and if need be let people vote again but this time with a better understanding of the impact and consequences of Brexit.

    If people still want to vote leave they can still do so, but at least we'd know what we were getting into this time.

    Taking about a second vote being undemocratic is ****ing ludicrous. Not having the vote in these circumstances is undemocratic. Another vote is the most democratic thing they could do.

  6. #2525
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,912
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you think May has done well with this, you havenít been paying attention.

    Sheís had a weak hand and played it extremely badly.
    I don't think she's done well at all! But I'm not sure Blair for example would have got a different outcome. They may have had it packaged better, but no British PM could agree to carving up their country at the behest of Brussels, and that's if it even is compatible with the GFA.

  7. #2526
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,058
    I don't get all the discussion about what Brexit means. The vote was to leave the EU or not leave the EU. A straight black or white vote. There was no halfway house on offer and the Tories have now spent the last 2 years trying to invent one. The EU have also been clear on the terms, first the divorce settlement then we can talk about how life continues afterwards. Instead of talking about how we're gonna share the family car we should first decide who has ownership of it and then negotiate how it's used. We've spent 2 years renegotiating the rules of the game instead of just following them to play the game. Let's just pay what we owe, take back what's ours and then talk about how we can work together with what we have.

  8. #2527
    Coaching Staff bawheid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,807
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The leave campaigners were not in a position to make post-Brexit promises or policies though, they weren't elected or in policy making positions in the government to do so.

    The infamous NHS bus is a prime example - we'll save all this money and put it in to the NHS... how can they make that promise when they've no mandate to do so. Even winning the referendum didn't give them a mandate to dictate the post-brexit landscape, which is another reason for the Jess that May finds herself in.

    The information video the Tories put out about the Chequers deal mentioned that not having control of our borders was against the Brexit that people voted for so was out of the question for any deal - the Brexit vote had no other question that leave or remain, there was no type of Brexit mentioned, so how's she decided that the border was the fundamental part that people voted for.

    The whole thing is a mess, a shambles. It should be stopped for the good of the country and if need be let people vote again but this time with a better understanding of the impact and consequences of Brexit.

    If people still want to vote leave they can still do so, but at least we'd know what we were getting into this time.

    Taking about a second vote being undemocratic is ****ing ludicrous. Not having the vote in these circumstances is undemocratic. Another vote is the most democratic thing they could do.
    Spot on, and I think as the shambles continues to play out the clamour for a second vote will grow to the point that it will become inevitable.

    May is even more of a busted flush than she was on the day after the last GE and I didnít think that was possible. Thereís actually no point to her other than the fact that nobody in the Tory party wants to replace her until they can be perceived as having ridden in to save the day. Only once the whole thing has fallen apart (no deal) will she be thrown to the dogs. History will remember her and Cameron as two of the most damaging Prime Ministers the UK has ever had.

    The real problem for the UK is that not only are the government of the day completely inept, the opposition are just as bad. A shambles, as you say.

  9. #2528
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Age
    40
    Posts
    35,933
    Blog Entries
    1
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: franck sauzee
    Quote Originally Posted by bawheid View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Spot on, and I think as the shambles continues to play out the clamour for a second vote will grow to the point that it will become inevitable.

    May is even more of a busted flush than she was on the day after the last GE and I didnít think that was possible. Thereís actually no point to her other than the fact that nobody in the Tory party wants to replace her until they can be perceived as having ridden in to save the day. Only once the whole thing has fallen apart (no deal) will she be thrown to the dogs. History will remember her and Cameron as two of the most damaging Prime Ministers the UK has ever had.

    The real problem for the UK is that not only are the government of the day completely inept, the opposition are just as bad. A shambles, as you say.
    IIRC, May backed remain as well, which makes her position even more ludicrous. It also really harms the chances of a second vote because she would have to back remain again, surely, having seen close up the state of brexit.

  10. #2529
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,841
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    IIRC, May backed remain as well, which makes her position even more ludicrous. It also really harms the chances of a second vote because she would have to back remain again, surely, having seen close up the state of brexit.
    This is the fundamental problem with Brexit. Everyone with an ounce of political awareness about how international relations, trade, the economy work, recognises that Brexit is a monumentally stupid act of self harm.

    The correct thing for May (and Cameron before her) to have done on finding the result of the referendum, was to say, well that's interesting, let's find out why the Leavers feel that way.

    Leaving the EU is a stupid thing to do. It's no wonder May is struggling with it.

  11. #2530
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Dont know its too dark in here
    Age
    61
    Posts
    9,691
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think she's done well at all! But I'm not sure Blair for example would have got a different outcome. They may have had it packaged better, but no British PM could agree to carving up their country at the behest of Brussels, and that's if it even is compatible with the GFA.
    If you actually mean Blair I doubt he, or any Labour government, would have been stupid enough to call a referendum in the first place.
    Space to let

  12. #2531
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,058
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    IIRC, May backed remain as well, which makes her position even more ludicrous. It also really harms the chances of a second vote because she would have to back remain again, surely, having seen close up the state of brexit.
    A 2nd referendum would either confirm the 1st or instigate violence that has not been seen on these islands for centuries.

  13. #2532
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,841
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    A 2nd referendum would either confirm the 1st or instigate violence that has not been seen on these islands for centuries.
    Is that a threat?

  14. #2533
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,058
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is that a threat?
    Certainly not from me. The far right are already in meltdown because of their perceived Brexit betrayal. A 2nd vote in favour of remain would see their numbers increase tenfold and push them over the edge.

  15. #2534
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    22,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    A 2nd referendum would either confirm the 1st or instigate violence that has not been seen on these islands for centuries.
    Seriously?

    That's the kind of talk that got us into this mess.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

  16. #2535
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,841
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Certainly not from me. The far right are already in meltdown because of their perceived Brexit betrayal. A 2nd vote in favour of remain would see their numbers increase tenfold and push them over the edge.
    I don't think so. the noise from the far right is much louder because there's so few of them.

    You hear on the radio and tv that reporters say, "we've spoken to people in the street, leavers and remainers, and they just want the Govt to get on with it". This is rubbish and probably a lie. No remainer that I know wants to get on with it, and plenty leavers of my acquaintance regret their vote and want it all to stop.

    And sorry - I never meant to imply that you were making a threat.

  17. #2536
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,912
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you actually mean Blair I doubt he, or any Labour government, would have been stupid enough to call a referendum in the first place.
    Agreed. But it wasn't may who did it either.

  18. #2537
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,877
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This is the fundamental problem with Brexit. Everyone with an ounce of political awareness about how international relations, trade, the economy work, recognises that Brexit is a monumentally stupid act of self harm.

    The correct thing for May (and Cameron before her) to have done on finding the result of the referendum, was to say, well that's interesting, let's find out why the Leavers feel that way.

    Leaving the EU is a stupid thing to do. It's no wonder May is struggling with it.
    She continues down the road to the cliff edge, after all of the indications from her governments own figures show Brexit will harm the UK, with Scotland coming out very badly.

    Some on here think she's doing a grand job too.

    Take a look at the papers today, and you'll see why some are still spoon fed British imperialism. #EU rats


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  19. #2538
    Coaching Staff jacomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    exile
    Posts
    13,681
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you think May has done well with this, you havenít been paying attention.

    Sheís had a weak hand and played it extremely badly.



    If your opponent knows your hand then trying to bluff is laughably stupid.

  20. #2539
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,058
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Seriously?

    That's the kind of talk that got us into this mess.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    IMO not talking about it would be the most dangerous course of inaction. I might be having a tinfoil hat moment but the rise of the international extreme right and their new found solidarity with each other and organised communication network poses a very real threat to the western world's stability. At present they are receiving financial and moral support from Moscow, once they've gained enough political clout it's not unrealistic to think that the Kremlin would have no qualms in arming them.

  21. #2540
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,058
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think so. the noise from the far right is much louder because there's so few of them.

    You hear on the radio and tv that reporters say, "we've spoken to people in the street, leavers and remainers, and they just want the Govt to get on with it". This is rubbish and probably a lie. No remainer that I know wants to get on with it, and plenty leavers of my acquaintance regret their vote and want it all to stop.

    And sorry - I never meant to imply that you were making a threat.
    No problem. I've just got in from work and have seen that nasty wee ***** Farage is back whipping up the hate talk again and it's getting lapped up by the xenophobic masses. The speeches at the Brexit supporters rally tonight are again filled with hate inspiring soundbites like betrayal and traitors. At the risk of invoking Godwin's law, (even Godwin has now said that his law is no longer relevant in today's political climate) the parallels with 1930s Europe and initially small extreme right parties are becoming ever harder to ignore.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved