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  1. #2401
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Given the advice notes from the government which were to be issued but were cancelled because they would scare the **** out of everyone, I wondered if the Scottish government had made any contingency plans to safeguard Scotland's food supply and access to medicines.

    I haven’t heard anything on this and wondered if they were making plans to ensure that Scotland can protect itself and not lose out to England if there are shortages.


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  3. #2402
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    Do you not actually believe the anti brexit media agenda make numbers up?

    Its like the usual immigration has reduced rubbish they feed us.
    4 year ago Romania gained freedom of movement...and theres about 1 million here. Bulgaria joined also.
    So if immigration level from other countries was at approx 250,000....How is that even possible?

    The media have their own agenda to influence people for what they want!

    Its like every country that ever voted to leave the EU....was forced to keep voting till the correct result materialised.

    Its an unelected dictatorship...that has never had an audited set of accounts.

    Another thing too is that how can it be good for the economy?
    A load of people that come here,work,send their money out the country....then claim all their tax back!
    How can that be a good thing???

    The EU is absolutely stiffing us...and how people cant see that is breathtaking!
    Are you here doing the fringe?

  4. #2403
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    Polls are used to shape pubic opinion not reflect it. You only need to note how recent elections and referendum results have went against the polls to see that.
    Indyref polling was pretty much bang on. EUref polling consistently showed it would be close albeit most polls in the last week or so showed Remain slightly ahead.

    Polling can be used to shape pubic (fnar) opinion, the client paying for the poll often gets to put the questions after all, but the standard VI ones are pretty good. They're rarely out by much. The mistake is to take a 1 or 2 % lead as gospel rather than indicating it's too close to call.

  5. #2404
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Given the advice notes from the government which were to be issued but were cancelled because they would scare the **** out of everyone, I wondered if the Scottish government had made any contingency plans to safeguard Scotland's food supply and access to medicines.

    I haven’t heard anything on this and wondered if they were making plans to ensure that Scotland can protect itself and not lose out to England if there are shortages.
    You obviously missed this then?

    https://www.gov.scot/resource/0043/00439021.pdf

    Anyhoo, back then Scotland was in the EU and would have continued to be along with the rUK, no border. Unlike what is happening on the island of Ireland.

    This is totally different. You could say things have changed materially since then.

    J
    Last edited by Bristolhibby; 31-07-2018 at 11:16 AM.

  6. #2405
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    Do you not actually believe the anti brexit media agenda make numbers up?

    Its like the usual immigration has reduced rubbish they feed us.
    4 year ago Romania gained freedom of movement...and theres about 1 million here. Bulgaria joined also.
    So if immigration level from other countries was at approx 250,000....How is that even possible?

    The media have their own agenda to influence people for what they want!

    Its like every country that ever voted to leave the EU....was forced to keep voting till the correct result materialised.

    Its an unelected dictatorship...that has never had an audited set of accounts.

    Another thing too is that how can it be good for the economy?
    A load of people that come here,work,send their money out the country....then claim all their tax back!
    How can that be a good thing???

    The EU is absolutely stiffing us...and how people cant see that is breathtaking!
    This is absolute comedy gold.

    1,000,000 Romanians! HAAHAHAHAH the actual figure is about 400,000 (and that actually included Bulgarians too). I'm sure you will say this is far too many.

    Only three countries have ever left the EU.
    Algeria: which was a member of the common market place due to it's connections with France. Their membership ceased in '62 when they gained their independence.
    Greenland: Won home rule from Denmark in 1982. Voted 53 per cent to leave. Although their citizens remain EU citizens under Danish Law.
    Saint Barthélemy: was a member of the EU due to connections with France. Ceased to be a member when Guadeloupe seceded.

    Unelected Dictatorship? Please explain how.

    The European Council: Heads of government from all member states. They meet every six months to decide on the directions the EU should be headed in - HEADS OF GOVERNMENT = ELECTED

    The European Parliament: 750 MEP who are appointed to their position via European elections. Ken, the elections that only 34% of Brits actually vote in? ELECTED

    The Council of the European Union:
    Made of up national ministers from member states. So Health issues we are represented by Matt Hancock MP, finance Philip Hammond MP. Again, all of these people that are representing you are ELECTED.


    With regards to audited account i attach the following fact-check
    https://fullfact.org/europe/did-audi...ign-eu-budget/

    The only thing I can agree with you on is that the media have their own agenda. Although I suspect we will disagree as to what direction that agenda is pointed
    Last edited by Lendo; 31-07-2018 at 12:58 PM.

  7. #2406
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    I know. Just because you don’t know how they are elected, does not make the assertion that the EU is unelected to be true.

    The House of Lords on the other hand!

    J

  8. #2407
    The latest Brexity thing to put alongside soft, hard, clean, in-name-only Brexits - a "blind Brexit". Basically leave the EU without the faintest idea what the future relationship will be.

    Given the last couple of years of kicking the cake down the road, I'd say this is probably quite a likely outcome.

    Robert Peston
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    I cannot find a minister or Tory MP, outside of the PM’s immediate circle, who believes her Chequers Brexit plan is viable - partly because too many Tory MPs and members loathe it, and partly because its central elements on customs and goods trade are anathema to the EU’s negotiators.

    So what next?

    Well my understanding is that one of the Brexit campaign’s two big beasts, the environment secretary Michael Gove, has arrived at the perhaps startling view that the least worst option now is what some are styling “a blind Brexit”.

    This would be to recognise that parliament is too divided and too much time has already been wasted for a detailed plan for our future relationship with the EU to be negotiated and agreed in time for the summits in October or December.

    Instead the withdrawal agreement - which formalises a default plan to keep open the Northern Ireland border and around £40bn of divorce payments by the UK - would be ratified by EU leaders, together with the highest level guiding principles for the UK’s future relationship with the EU.

    In other words, we would leave the EU not having a clue whether Brexit would ultimately involve membership of the single market like Norway, or the customs union like Turkey, or associate status like Ukraine or having a Canadian style free trade agreement.

    To repeat, Brexit on 29 March 2019 would be blind.

    So why would a Brexiter like Gove opt for the final nature of Brexit being fudged to the ultimate degree?

    Well partly because - as the FT has reported - the Germany is signalling that such a general statement of intent is the best they are prepared to concede before Brexit day.

    And also because the alternatives for him - including perhaps irresistible pressure for a referendum - would be far worse.

    If Chequers is dead, there may well be a cross party majority of MPs and Lords who would back Norway-style membership of the single market and also membership of a customs union, what True Brexiters would see as reducing the UK to the status of EU vassal or serf forever.

    And, as I say, there is also growing parliamentary and popular pressure for a Brexit plebiscite - which would bring the significant risk of Brexit being reversed.

    Gove calculates that this pressure for a referendum would be stalled if it became impossible with a blind Brexit to argue that the PM had secured a bad deal - in that she would not have any deal worth the name.

    So how likely is a blind Brexit?

    Well lots of Gove’s erstwhile Brexiter chums would go bonkers if that is where the PM lands - because they would fear, legitimately, that if tough choices are fudged now, what they think of as true Brexit would never be achieved.

    That said Gove will have allies among the pragmatists and Remainers in the parliamentary Tory party. And Corbyn’s divided Labour party might also welcome being let off the Brexit hook.

    So perhaps we should start to brace ourselves for leaving the EU with our eyes shut.

  9. #2408
    And a startlingly upbeat press release from Michel Barnier:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/news...2018-aug-02_en

    The United Kingdom will leave the European Union on 29 March 2019. While we regretted the UK's departure, we respect its sovereign decision. Our task is now to organise the disentanglement of the UK from the EU's institutions and policies. And we also need to look towards the future.

    After Brexit, the EU will remain a global player, with 440 million citizens, and one of the biggest world economies. The UK has been an EU member for 45 years. We share common values and have a number of common interests. The UK, which is a member of the G7 and the UN Security Council, can be an important partner of the EU, economically and strategically. In the current geopolitical context, we have an interest not only to strengthen the EU's role in the world but to cooperate with the UK as a close partner.

    How can we achieve a new partnership?

    First, we need to make sure that the UK's exit is orderly. 80% of the Withdrawal Agreement is agreed. We will protect the rights of more than 4 million EU citizens living in the UK and British nationals in the EU. This was our first priority and a major point of vigilance for the European Parliament. The UK has also agreed to honour all its financial obligations undertaken as an EU member. A 21 month transition period will give businesses and administrations time to adapt, as the UK would stay in our Single Market and Customs Union until 31 December 2020.

    However, 80% is not 100%. We still need to agree on important points, such as the protection of "geographical indications". This refers to the protection of local farm and food products like Scottish Whisky or Parmesan cheese, where EU protection has generated significant value for European farmers and producers. We need to find solutions for specific British territories, such as the UK's sovereign bases in Cyprus, and Gibraltar on which bilateral negotiations are ongoing between Spain and the UK.

    The biggest risk caused by Brexit is on the island of Ireland. We need to make sure that Brexit does not create a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, and that the Good Friday Agreement, which has brought peace and stability to Northern Ireland, will be protected. Today, the cooperation and exchanges between Ireland and Northern Ireland occur within the common framework of the EU. Since we will not know what the future relationship will bring by Autumn 2018, we need to have a "backstop" solution in the Withdrawal Agreement. The UK agrees with this, and both the EU and the UK have said that a better solution in the future relationship could replace the backstop. What the EU has proposed is that Northern Ireland remains in a common regulatory area for goods and customs with the rest of the EU. We are ready to improve the text of our proposal with the UK.

    Secondly, we need to agree on the terms of our future relationship.

    Let's be frank: as the UK has decided to leave the Single Market, it can no longer be as close economically to the rest of the EU. The UK wants to leave our common regulatory area, where people, goods, services and capital move freely across national borders. These are the economic foundations on which the EU was built. And the European Council – the 27 Heads of State or government – as well as the European Parliament have often recalled that these economic foundations cannot be weakened.

    The UK knows well the benefits of the Single Market. It has contributed to shaping our rules over the last 45 years. And yet, some UK proposals would undermine our Single Market which is one of the EU's biggest achievements. The UK wants to keep free movement of goods between us, but not of people and services. And it proposes to apply EU customs rules without being part of the EU's legal order. Thus, the UK wants to take back sovereignty and control of its own laws, which we respect, but it cannot ask the EU to lose control of its borders and laws.

    But I remain confident that the negotiations can reach a good outcome. It is possible to respect EU principles and create a new and ambitious partnership. That is what the European Council has already proposed in March. The EU has offered a Free Trade Agreement with zero tariffs and no quantitative restrictions for goods. It proposed close customs and regulatory cooperation and access to public procurement markets, to name but a few examples.

    On security, the EU wants very close cooperation to protect our citizens and democratic societies. We should organise effective exchanges of intelligence and information and make sure our law enforcement bodies work together. We should cooperate to fight crime, money laundering and terrorist financing. We can cooperate on the exchange of DNA, fingerprints, or Passenger Name Records in aviation to better track and identify terrorists and criminals. We are also ready to discuss mechanisms for swift and effective extradition, guaranteeing procedural rights for suspects.

    If the UK understands this, and if we quickly find solutions to the outstanding withdrawal issues, including the backstop for Ireland and Northern Ireland, I am sure we can build a future partnership between the EU and the United Kingdom that is unprecedented in scope and depth.

    Basically this says sort out the Irish backstop that you already agreed to and you can have a Canada+ style deal. The question is really whether Theresa and chums can come up with an NI compromise that attracts enough Tory support to see off the inevitable revolt from the revolting Rees-Mogg and the DUP.
    Last edited by JeMeSouviens; 02-08-2018 at 11:44 AM.

  10. #2409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendo View Post
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    This is absolute comedy gold.

    1,000,000 Romanians! HAAHAHAHAH the actual figure is about 400,000 (and that actually included Bulgarians too). I'm sure you will say this is far too many.

    Only three countries have ever left the EU.
    Algeria: which was a member of the common market place due to it's connections with France. Their membership ceased in '62 when they gained their independence.
    Greenland: Won home rule from Denmark in 1982. Voted 53 per cent to leave. Although their citizens remain EU citizens under Danish Law.
    Saint Barthélemy: was a member of the EU due to connections with France. Ceased to be a member when Guadeloupe seceded.

    Unelected Dictatorship? Please explain how.

    The European Council: Heads of government from all member states. They meet every six months to decide on the directions the EU should be headed in - HEADS OF GOVERNMENT = ELECTED

    The European Parliament: 750 MEP who are appointed to their position via European elections. Ken, the elections that only 34% of Brits actually vote in? ELECTED

    The Council of the European Union:
    Made of up national ministers from member states. So Health issues we are represented by Matt Hancock MP, finance Philip Hammond MP. Again, all of these people that are representing you are ELECTED.


    With regards to audited account i attach the following fact-check
    https://fullfact.org/europe/did-audi...ign-eu-budget/

    The only thing I can agree with you on is that the media have their own agenda. Although I suspect we will disagree as to what direction that agenda is pointed
    What you say is true, but the European Parliament is not a parliament in the sense we known it- it can, I think, only amend legislation.

    And the Commission, who you leave out for some reason, are the only body who can initiate legislation, and they are appointed and fairly unaccountable.

    I'm pro-remain, but the EU is very far from perfect. Neither, I might add is the UK or Scottish Parliaments, but the point in both these cases is you vote for the government and their policies, and they have a mandate.

    The European government (the Commission) don't have as direct a mandate, hence the justifiable sense that the EU is unaccountable and plows it's own furrow, regardless of public opinion.

  11. #2410
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    And a startlingly upbeat press release from Michel Barnier:

    [url]https://ec.europa.eu/commission/news/ambitious-partnership-uk-after-brexit-2018-aug-02_en[/url


    Basically this says sort out the Irish backstop that you already agreed to and you can have a Canada+ style deal. The question is really whether Theresa and chums can come up with an NI compromise that attracts enough Tory support to see off the inevitable revolt from the revolting Rees-Mogg and the DUP.
    Interesting... that seems to be a bit further and more explicit than the EU have been before? I suspect some member states are starting to exert some pressure to get the deal done.

    I share your scepticism that we are coherent enough to reciprocate though

  12. #2411
    Pro-remain biased analysis of Yougov's latest Brexit polling by Peter Kellner (who used to run Yougov). The numbers are certainly starting to look better for a 2nd ref and eventual death of Brexit.

    The second YouGov poll was conducted this month for the People’s Vote campaign among a sample of more than 10,000. It tells us eight key things about why the public is on the move

    • As many as 73% of voters, including 60% of Leave voters, now agree that “it is likely that many of the promises made by politicians in favour of leaving the EU will be broken”. Just 13% disagree.
    • By almost two-to-one (43-22%), voters fear that Brexit would harm rather than boost Britain’s economy.
    • Few voters expect Brexit would enable the UK to “take back control”. Just 21% believe the UK would in practice gain the freedom to decide its own rules and regulations; 51% think we “will have to obey many EU rules and regulations if British businesses are to continue to trade freely with other European countries”.
    • Free and frictionless trade is seen as vital. If forced to choose, 50% would opt for free trade rather than the right to impose immigration controls; just 29% give immigration controls a higher priority.
    • If Brexit goes ahead, fully 70% want EU citizens to continue to have either an absolute right to settle in the UK (16%) or freedom for workers and students to come to the UK (54%). Thus freedom of movement of labour is popular, even if untrammelled freedom of movement for people is not. As other EU countries in practice qualify freedom of movement by drawing precisely that distinction, EU immigration need not be a stumbling block to a new deal that enables the UK to remain a member of the EU.
    • Given these findings, it makes sense that, by 45-34%, voters now favour “a public vote on the outcome of the negotiations”.
    • Furthermore, YouGov went on to ask a completely new question: what should happen if talks break down and there is no deal between London and Brussels: “should the final decision be made by MPs voting in Parliament or the public voting in a new referendum?” 50% want a public vote, while just 25% opt for MPs voting in Parliament.
    • Even people who voted Leave tend to prefer a new referendum, by 39-34%.

    There is clearly the potential for a broadly-based campaign this autumn for a People’s Vote, should the Brussels talks go badly. Across the spectrum, the message from voters is clear: if the government and Parliament can’t sort out Brexit, the people should.
    https://infacts.org/massive-summer-p...rexit-message/

  13. #2412
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Pro-remain biased analysis of Yougov's latest Brexit polling by Peter Kellner (who used to run Yougov). The numbers are certainly starting to look better for a 2nd ref and eventual death of Brexit.



    https://infacts.org/massive-summer-p...rexit-message/

    I ****ing hope so but I fear not. Too much momentum behind it now to be allowed to fail.

  14. #2413
    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    I ****ing hope so but I fear not. Too much momentum behind it now to be allowed to fail.
    I'm not so sure. I think there were 2 factors in favour of pushing it through: that people were genuinely sick to death and just wanted it over and that even the Remain side had a sort of oh well that's democracy, better get on with it, sort of attitude. I think the Rees-Moggy/ERG faction have overplayed their hand by pushing to reject all compromise, go for the kamikaze no deal and cry betrayal over anything May manages to come up with. Forcing things too close to catastrophe might just stir things up enough to kill it off.

  15. #2414
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    Are we there yet? Wow what a drag this Brexit thing has been.

    Despite the polls and the Independent’s best efforts to pretend anyone is still bothered I seriously doubt a second ref will be held.

    As it is I’ve been watching some of the comments coming out of Italy and their Euro scepticism appears to be rising by the day.

    Firstly we see Claudio Borghi demanding Italian bond yields are capped at 150bps above German rates to prevent a collapse of the Euro. Which is an interesting demand which effectively is asking for Italian debt to be subsidised by the ECB directly (probably with printed money). This would takes the financial rigging of the Euro to a whole new level.

    Now we see Salvini, days after bemoaning the cost of EU sanctions on Russia to his country, is using the bridge collapse to lambast the EU deficit rules and demand that the rules are ‘adjusted’ to ignore ever more spending...basically fudging the numbers on a grand scale.

    I sense there is going to be a lot of agitation in the EU over how to deal with Italy...a country that after all has suffered massively from being in the Euro and is now looking like its rapidly moving towards wondering just why it’s worth sticking to a currency and rules that appear to make it poorer and unable to determine its own actions to resolve the situation.

    I’m sure the Spanish and the Portuguese are looking in with many a vested interest on how this plays out while the Eurocrats tremble in the knowledge that Italy can’t be forced into a crushing decline like they imposed on Greece to save their bacon this time.

  16. #2415
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Are we there yet? Wow what a drag this Brexit thing has been.

    Despite the polls and the Independent’s best efforts to pretend anyone is still bothered I seriously doubt a second ref will be held.

    As it is I’ve been watching some of the comments coming out of Italy and their Euro scepticism appears to be rising by the day.

    Firstly we see Claudio Borghi demanding Italian bond yields are capped at 150bps above German rates to prevent a collapse of the Euro. Which is an interesting demand which effectively is asking for Italian debt to be subsidised by the ECB directly (probably with printed money). This would takes the financial rigging of the Euro to a whole new level.

    Now we see Salvini, days after bemoaning the cost of EU sanctions on Russia to his country, is using the bridge collapse to lambast the EU deficit rules and demand that the rules are ‘adjusted’ to ignore ever more spending...basically fudging the numbers on a grand scale.

    I sense there is going to be a lot of agitation in the EU over how to deal with Italy...a country that after all has suffered massively from being in the Euro and is now looking like its rapidly moving towards wondering just why it’s worth sticking to a currency and rules that appear to make it poorer and unable to determine its own actions to resolve the situation.

    I’m sure the Spanish and the Portuguese are looking in with many a vested interest on how this plays out while the Eurocrats tremble in the knowledge that Italy can’t be forced into a crushing decline like they imposed on Greece to save their bacon this time.
    1. There are noises about Italy leaving the Eurozone (Quitaly) but nobody is talking about them leaving the EU bar Brexiteers.
    2. It's not the "Eurocrats" or "Brussels" that need to move to stop this. It's the Germans.
    3. Rumblings about Italy and the Euro are not going to save Brexit's bacon as public opinion here really couldn't gaf.

  17. #2416
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    1. There are noises about Italy leaving the Eurozone (Quitaly) but nobody is talking about them leaving the EU bar Brexiteers.
    2. It's not the "Eurocrats" or "Brussels" that need to move to stop this. It's the Germans.
    3. Rumblings about Italy and the Euro are not going to save Brexit's bacon as public opinion here really couldn't gaf.
    So the EU is ruled by Germany? Thought so

    But I agree the UK public opinion on Brexit is not going to be moved by the Italians at this point but when you see Borghi saying ‘the situation [high bond yields spread] can’t be resolved, and it’s going to explode’ you do get the feeling that Italy is not exactly in love with the Euro.

    And sure Italy exiting the EU seems a rather remote possibility but none the less with the third largest member showing such signs of dissatisfaction and a popularist government using the ongoing woes of the country as a stick to beat the EU with at every opportunity it will be interesting to see what develops from here.

  18. #2417
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    So the EU is ruled by Germany? Thought so

    But I agree the UK public opinion on Brexit is not going to be moved by the Italians at this point but when you see Borghi saying ‘the situation [high bond yields spread] can’t be resolved, and it’s going to explode’ you do get the feeling that Italy is not exactly in love with the Euro.

    And sure Italy exiting the EU seems a rather remote possibility but none the less with the third largest member showing such signs of dissatisfaction and a popularist government using the ongoing woes of the country as a stick to beat the EU with at every opportunity it will be interesting to see what develops from here.
    The Eurozone is dominated by Germany and the Euro can't be fixed without German willingness to move.

    You need to fix your Brexit-speak though. Everyone knows the EU is ruled by Brussels' faceless Eurocrats.

  19. #2418
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    The Eurozone is dominated by Germany and the Euro can't be fixed without German willingness to move.

    You need to fix your Brexit-speak though. Everyone knows the EU is ruled by Brussels' faceless Eurocrats.
    Ha ha well since Germany appears to be the sole winner in the Euro I doubt they want to move far from that position!

    And I’ll bear in mind to drop a few faceless Eurocrat comments in the next time 🤪

    It’s funny though that most people against Brexit to at least some degree seem to suggest the EU needs ‘reformed’ or the Euro ‘fixed’ while conveniently ignoring the huge difficulties in doing either.

    In fact they also seem to ignore that the Euro is fundamentally one of the most bonkers currency set ups known to man and somehow it’s continued existence seems to be more important that the people that’s use its welfare.

    Anyway I wasn’t intending to ramble on about the pros n cons...I was merely highlighting the continued strain within the EU and the Eurozone with one of its biggest founding nations.

  20. #2419
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Are we there yet? Wow what a drag this Brexit thing has been.

    Despite the polls and the Independent’s best efforts to pretend anyone is still bothered I seriously doubt a second ref will be held.

    As it is I’ve been watching some of the comments coming out of Italy and their Euro scepticism appears to be rising by the day.

    Firstly we see Claudio Borghi demanding Italian bond yields are capped at 150bps above German rates to prevent a collapse of the Euro. Which is an interesting demand which effectively is asking for Italian debt to be subsidised by the ECB directly (probably with printed money). This would takes the financial rigging of the Euro to a whole new level.

    Now we see Salvini, days after bemoaning the cost of EU sanctions on Russia to his country, is using the bridge collapse to lambast the EU deficit rules and demand that the rules are ‘adjusted’ to ignore ever more spending...basically fudging the numbers on a grand scale.

    I sense there is going to be a lot of agitation in the EU over how to deal with Italy...a country that after all has suffered massively from being in the Euro and is now looking like its rapidly moving towards wondering just why it’s worth sticking to a currency and rules that appear to make it poorer and unable to determine its own actions to resolve the situation.

    I’m sure the Spanish and the Portuguese are looking in with many a vested interest on how this plays out while the Eurocrats tremble in the knowledge that Italy can’t be forced into a crushing decline like they imposed on Greece to save their bacon this time.
    All of the EU will be following Brexit very closely and depending on how the UK fairs they will cut their cloth accordingly. I see a bright future for the EU

  21. #2420
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Ha ha well since Germany appears to be the sole winner in the Euro I doubt they want to move far from that position!

    And I’ll bear in mind to drop a few faceless Eurocrat comments in the next time 🤪

    It’s funny though that most people against Brexit to at least some degree seem to suggest the EU needs ‘reformed’ or the Euro ‘fixed’ while conveniently ignoring the huge difficulties in doing either.

    In fact they also seem to ignore that the Euro is fundamentally one of the most bonkers currency set ups known to man and somehow it’s continued existence seems to be more important that the people that’s use its welfare.

    Anyway I wasn’t intending to ramble on about the pros n cons...I was merely highlighting the continued strain within the EU and the Eurozone with one of its biggest founding nations.
    Didn't I read somewhere that the Bank of England were investigating in the Euro because they saw it as more stable than the dollar?
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  22. #2421
    @hibs.net private member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Didn't I read somewhere that the Bank of England were investigating in the Euro because they saw it as more stable than the dollar?
    Are you asking me to tell you if you have read something or not? 🤪

    As it is from what I can see the foreign currency reserves split between the Euro and the USD appears to be relatively static. And anyway no foreign currency reserve would make too much sense without a hefty weighting in the USD...it is after all the worlds most dominant currency no matter which you look at it.

  23. #2422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Didn't I read somewhere that the Bank of England were investigating in the Euro because they saw it as more stable than the dollar?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...8be0b4fb7109a6

    The Bank of England has ploughed billions of the Treasury’s foreign currency reserves into euros since the Brexit referendum, in an apparent vote of confidence in the single currency.Figures from the Bank — which manages stocks of foreign currency on behalf of the Treasury — show that Britain now holds more euros than dollars in its reserves, reversing the position of June 2016.

  24. #2423
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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  25. #2424
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Thanks for posting that. I was coming to the conclusion that I'd dreamt it!
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  26. #2426
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...mpression=true

    Brexit poll bombshell as majority of Scots say they'll back independence after Britain leaves EU
    The survey also predicts a full-scale break up of British state with 52 per cent of voters in Northern Ireland backing a united Ireland in the wake of Brexit.

    SHARE
    BY TORCUIL CRICHTON
    The polling data shows that 47% would back Independence after Brexit with 43 against(Image: Daily Record)
    A majority of Scots will back *independence after Britain leaves the European Union, according to a *bombshell poll showing how Brexit could spell the end of the UK.

    The poll, commissioned by a *pro-Remain campaign group, shows 47 per cent of Scots would vote for *Independence when Britain leaves the European Union while just 43 per cent would vote for Scotland to remain in the UK, with 10 per cent unsure.


    This is a stunning reverse of voting intention if the UK Remains in the EU, with 47 per cent of people telling pollsters they would vote against Independence in that case and 43 per cent voting to go it alone.

    The Brexit factor appears to have even more dramatic political consequences in Northern Ireland, with an incredible 52 per cent of voters saying they would back a united Ireland in the wake of Brexit.



    Only 39 per cent would vote to remain as part of UK under those circumstances.

    If Britain stayed within the EU, only 35 per cent of voters in Northern Ireland would support a united Ireland, according to the Best for Britain poll which campaigners are using to demonstrate the constitutional chaos Brexit could unleash on the UK.


    Taking away any reference to Brexit, the independence question in Scotland remains on a knife-edge according to the poll of 1022 people conducted by Deltapoll.


    Asked how they would vote if there were an independence referendum tomorrow, 47 per cent would be for remaining in the UK and
    45 per cent for leaving, with eight per cent undecided.

    Nearly half of Scottish voters, some 48 per cent, believe that the public mood has shifted since the Brexit referendum and that it would be would be wrong to leave the EU based on the 2016 result.

    Some 31 per cent think it would be the right thing to leave anyway, and 21 per cent of voters don’t know.

    In the Brexit referendum, Scotland voted 62 per cent to 38 per cent to Remain. The overall result across the UK was 52 per cent for Leave and 48 per cent for Remain.

    In Northern Ireland, which voted 56 per cent to 44 per cent to Remain in the referendum the political impact of Brexit seems even more pronounced.

    In the Northern Irish poll, 52 per cent of voters, would vote for a united Ireland outside of the UK if Britain leaves the EU.

    The shock poll also showed that 56 per cent of voters would back a united Ireland if Britain left the European Union and a hard border existed.

    Eloise Todd, the Best for Britain chief, says the polling evidence should be enough to make people stop and think again(Image: PA Archive)
    READ MORE
    Scotland CAN have another independence referendum - but not for 20 years says Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Some 40 per cent would keep the Union and only four per cent didn’t know.

    Eloise Todd, the Best for Britain chief, said the polling evidence should be enough to make people stop and think again. She added: “When people voted in 2016, they didn’t vote to break up the union and risk both Scotland and Northern Ireland voting for a different future outside the UK.

    “This is compelling evidence as to why we need to stop and think again.

    “The public deserve a say on the final deal, with the knowledge that if Brexit happens we could shatter the union *altogether.”

    But polling guru Sir John Curtice sounded a note of caution.

    The Strathclyde University politics professor said the poll showed the union did not look particularly secure irrespective of what happened with Brexit.

    But SNP MP Stephen Gethins predicted Brexit would boost the *independence cause.

    He said: “As the deeply damaging consequences of a ‘No deal’ Brexit become clearer, as Scotland’s economy continues to outperform the UK, and as people grow *increasingly concerned about the future under Westminster rule, support for Scotland’s ability to take its own *decisions in an independent country will only grow further.”

    Labour MEP *Catherine Stihler insisted the poll revealed “a clear and present danger” to the future of the UK.

    She said: “The Tories’ reckless gamble with the EU referendum and Theresa May’s disastrous handling of the negotiations are stretching the historic bonds that unite us.”

    Stephen Gethins reckons Brexit will boost Nicola Sturgeon's chances of achieving Independence for Scotland(Image: Andy Buchanan/AFP/Getty Images)
    Remain-backing Tory MP Dr Phillip Lee said: “No government, especially a *Conservative one, can legitimately pursue this course which will likely lead – perhaps not tomorrow or next year or over the next decade but nonetheless inexorably – to breaking our home union.

    Nicola Sturgeon's pledge to boost 'wealth and wellbeing' of Scots communities
    “The only legitimate course now is to suspend or revoke Article 50 and call a second referendum offering people a choice between the Leave the *Brexiteers want and remaining in the EU on a new deal.”

    But Colin Clark, Scottish Conservative MP for Gordon, said the focus should be on securing the best deal for all parts of the UK as Britain leaves the EU.

    He said: “The people of Scotland voted by a significant margin to remain part of the United Kingdom in 2014.

    “The body of polling work since then does not suggest any meaningful change in that view.”

  27. #2427
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Grieves View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...mpression=true

    Brexit poll bombshell as majority of Scots say they'll back independence after Britain leaves EU
    The survey also predicts a full-scale break up of British state with 52 per cent of voters in Northern Ireland backing a united Ireland in the wake of Brexit.

    SHARE
    BY TORCUIL CRICHTON
    The polling data shows that 47% would back Independence after Brexit with 43 against(Image: Daily Record)
    A majority of Scots will back *independence after Britain leaves the European Union, according to a *bombshell poll showing how Brexit could spell the end of the UK.

    The poll, commissioned by a *pro-Remain campaign group, shows 47 per cent of Scots would vote for *Independence when Britain leaves the European Union while just 43 per cent would vote for Scotland to remain in the UK, with 10 per cent unsure.


    This is a stunning reverse of voting intention if the UK Remains in the EU, with 47 per cent of people telling pollsters they would vote against Independence in that case and 43 per cent voting to go it alone.

    The Brexit factor appears to have even more dramatic political consequences in Northern Ireland, with an incredible 52 per cent of voters saying they would back a united Ireland in the wake of Brexit.



    Only 39 per cent would vote to remain as part of UK under those circumstances.

    If Britain stayed within the EU, only 35 per cent of voters in Northern Ireland would support a united Ireland, according to the Best for Britain poll which campaigners are using to demonstrate the constitutional chaos Brexit could unleash on the UK.


    Taking away any reference to Brexit, the independence question in Scotland remains on a knife-edge according to the poll of 1022 people conducted by Deltapoll.


    Asked how they would vote if there were an independence referendum tomorrow, 47 per cent would be for remaining in the UK and
    45 per cent for leaving, with eight per cent undecided.

    Nearly half of Scottish voters, some 48 per cent, believe that the public mood has shifted since the Brexit referendum and that it would be would be wrong to leave the EU based on the 2016 result.

    Some 31 per cent think it would be the right thing to leave anyway, and 21 per cent of voters don’t know.

    In the Brexit referendum, Scotland voted 62 per cent to 38 per cent to Remain. The overall result across the UK was 52 per cent for Leave and 48 per cent for Remain.

    In Northern Ireland, which voted 56 per cent to 44 per cent to Remain in the referendum the political impact of Brexit seems even more pronounced.

    In the Northern Irish poll, 52 per cent of voters, would vote for a united Ireland outside of the UK if Britain leaves the EU.

    The shock poll also showed that 56 per cent of voters would back a united Ireland if Britain left the European Union and a hard border existed.

    Eloise Todd, the Best for Britain chief, says the polling evidence should be enough to make people stop and think again(Image: PA Archive)
    READ MORE
    Scotland CAN have another independence referendum - but not for 20 years says Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Some 40 per cent would keep the Union and only four per cent didn’t know.

    Eloise Todd, the Best for Britain chief, said the polling evidence should be enough to make people stop and think again. She added: “When people voted in 2016, they didn’t vote to break up the union and risk both Scotland and Northern Ireland voting for a different future outside the UK.

    “This is compelling evidence as to why we need to stop and think again.

    “The public deserve a say on the final deal, with the knowledge that if Brexit happens we could shatter the union *altogether.”

    But polling guru Sir John Curtice sounded a note of caution.

    The Strathclyde University politics professor said the poll showed the union did not look particularly secure irrespective of what happened with Brexit.

    But SNP MP Stephen Gethins predicted Brexit would boost the *independence cause.

    He said: “As the deeply damaging consequences of a ‘No deal’ Brexit become clearer, as Scotland’s economy continues to outperform the UK, and as people grow *increasingly concerned about the future under Westminster rule, support for Scotland’s ability to take its own *decisions in an independent country will only grow further.”

    Labour MEP *Catherine Stihler insisted the poll revealed “a clear and present danger” to the future of the UK.

    She said: “The Tories’ reckless gamble with the EU referendum and Theresa May’s disastrous handling of the negotiations are stretching the historic bonds that unite us.”

    Stephen Gethins reckons Brexit will boost Nicola Sturgeon's chances of achieving Independence for Scotland(Image: Andy Buchanan/AFP/Getty Images)
    Remain-backing Tory MP Dr Phillip Lee said: “No government, especially a *Conservative one, can legitimately pursue this course which will likely lead – perhaps not tomorrow or next year or over the next decade but nonetheless inexorably – to breaking our home union.

    Nicola Sturgeon's pledge to boost 'wealth and wellbeing' of Scots communities
    “The only legitimate course now is to suspend or revoke Article 50 and call a second referendum offering people a choice between the Leave the *Brexiteers want and remaining in the EU on a new deal.”

    But Colin Clark, Scottish Conservative MP for Gordon, said the focus should be on securing the best deal for all parts of the UK as Britain leaves the EU.

    He said: “The people of Scotland voted by a significant margin to remain part of the United Kingdom in 2014.

    “The body of polling work since then does not suggest any meaningful change in that view.”
    "An incredible 52 per cent"

  28. #2428
    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "An incredible 52 per cent"
    The "incredible" 52% is for a United Ireland and that's including DKs - it's 57-43 ex DK. In the context of NI politics that *is* incredible.

  29. #2429
    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "An incredible 52 per cent"
    It's not exactly overwhelmingly decisive either way. It's interesting that some folk are willing to change their mind based on staying in the EU, maybe some people do care about brexit more than some posters on here would have you believe?
    Last edited by Mr Grieves; 03-09-2018 at 11:04 AM.

  30. #2430
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Grieves View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's not exactly overwhelmingly decisive either way. It's interesting that some folk are willing to change their mind based on staying in the EU, maybe some people do care about brexit more than some posters on here would have you believe?
    The NI polling is particularly interesting in that the putative Brexit effect is so big, 60-40 against unification changes to 57-43 in favour.

    But even in Scotland, with the polling being fairly even, only a small swing to Yes is needed. The overwhelming majority of voters can be in couldn't care less mode, but if a small chunk of swing voters do care it'll be enough to shift the total.

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