Four Scottish clubs played in Europe this week and the combined score was scored 2, conceded 15.
When I was a kid, the Scottish clubs often did reasonably well, sometimes competing with top level European sides. Now I know this was an exceptionally bad week, but we do seem to have regressed quite a bit.
The questions are; why have we dropped so significantly, and what could be done to improve our results and standing in Europe?
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Thread: Scottish Clubs in Europe
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01-09-2023 11:46 AM #1
Scottish Clubs in Europe
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01-09-2023 11:51 AM #2
We were all ragdolled, though I must admit I immensely enjoyed seeing the others hammered
HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875
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01-09-2023 11:54 AM #3
I actually thought Hibs and Hearts had decent results against Lucern and Rosenberg. The days of Hibs beating Napoli, Hearts beating Bayern Munich at home etc are over. If Hibs got massive investment from a multi-millionaire, our results would improve hugely. Simple really.
"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire
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01-09-2023 12:03 PM #4
Money is the obvious answer. Scottish football doesn't generate nearly enough income when compared to leagues in Europe, so despite having gate receipts at an individual level that many a league would envy, TV and sponsorship put us on the back foot.
When you look at the ties on an individual level the picture is quite clear. Us and the Hun were punching streets ahead of ourselves and a hiding was always on the cards. Aberdeen had a tough tie but poor finishing and lax defending meant they pretty much knocked themselves out. Hearts were the ones who had a shot against a side of relatively similar status and really should have done better (shame ).
Obviously there are questions over grass roots and coaching but still the main defining factor is the commercial side. SPFL just needs better businessmen who can negotiate our relative worth to those investing in football.
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01-09-2023 12:08 PM #5This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-09-2023 12:21 PM #6
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Wonder if there is similar navel gazing on Swiss forums. Two of their teams beat by Scots or in Sweeden, their champions scrapped through against our 3rd.
We're a level bellow the top leagues and just like other small nations the gap will get bigger due to money
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01-09-2023 12:25 PM #7
Worst results in Europe this season so far:
1. Inter Descales 2 - 1 Hibs.
2. PAOK 4 - 0 Hearts.
3. PSV 5 - 1 Rangers.
4. Aberdeen 1 - 3 Haken.
5. Hibs 0 - 5 Aston Villa.
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01-09-2023 12:26 PM #9
Do the Greeks or Swedes have more resources than Hearts or Dons.
Does PSV have more than Rangers ?
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01-09-2023 12:29 PM #10
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01-09-2023 12:31 PM #11
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Hibs and Hearts were always going out to those teams. Rangers and especially Aberdeen had a great opportunity. Rangers embarrassed themselves.
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01-09-2023 12:35 PM #12
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Rubbish tv deal and a too small top league. And too dominated by the uglies so no change will happen.
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01-09-2023 12:35 PM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Haken are more comparable to Ross County or St.Johnstone than they are to Aberdeen, Hearts or ourselves. As has been said, its the disparity in commercial and TV incomes that make the difference.
Bodo in the Arctic Circle will receive many millions more than us in these areas.
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01-09-2023 12:49 PM #14
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As I say Swiss must be apoplectic as two of their teams got knocked out by two Scottish teams, both who were on a poor run of form
Rosenburg also got knocked out by a team of no marks
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01-09-2023 12:53 PM #15
Money is a big part but it’s nit just that. Most of these sides have quality local talent as well as big money players. If you look at Scotland as a whole we have very few players who can operate at that level. Those that can often move awAy. Calum mcgregor is arguably the only player of quality still in Scotland at the team he came through with.
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01-09-2023 12:55 PM #16
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Money is the answer for us getting hosed by Villa. Rangers and PSV are not far apart at all in terms of income, not sure about Aberdeen v their opponent, and PAOK are one of the better draws a Scottish team could have hoped for.
It’s easy to say money, and it’s a factor, but also we’re just not particularly good…
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01-09-2023 01:04 PM #17This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I still think our set up in Scotland goes against improvement both in governance and structure. The league structure is attritional financially for all but the top two and even they struggle outside of Scotland.
We have essentially an administrator running the governance and promotion of the game financially. We should be looking to emulate other countries in how they sell the game and getting the right people in the position needed to achieve this.
The SFA is largely the same. The recent plans (shelved fortunately) for Hampden had a curtain planned for low attendances how more backward thinking can you get?
I don't buy the population argument as other similar countries do better at club & national level. The one unique difference we do have is the gulf between the OF v the rest and getting them to move for the betterment of the game as a whole is the main sticking point.
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01-09-2023 01:05 PM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-09-2023 01:15 PM #20This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-09-2023 01:17 PM #21
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01-09-2023 01:29 PM #22
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Ultimately it’s a case of us understanding our position. Perhaps it’s tougher for Scotland, a nation that has clubs that have previously competed for and won the big prizes to adjust its outlook to be in line with other smaller nations.
We aren’t going to beat bigger clubs on skill alone, but we can absolutely be fit, strong and up for the fight. Everyone involved is a full time professional athlete, sure we can’t compete on skill, but we should be trying to at least match up in terms of physicality etc.
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01-09-2023 02:00 PM #23
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I posted this on the Bounce this morning. Moderated for here 😆
I know some folk aren't keen on Transfermarkt but as a guide to values I reckon it's as good as any.
Hibs has a squad value of €12.35m.
Inter Club d'Escaldes €3.73m so it's just as well we stuffed them ... eventually!
When we played Lucerne we were punching, their squad value is €28.55m. I genuinely thought we'd get beaten and all credit to the team for progressing.
Aston Villa**€603.50m. We were pissing in a gale force hurricane!
So what of the others?
Hertz €15.35m. Rosenborg €18.35m. Close. PAOK €48.30m. Progressing should have been unexpected but they are so ******* deluded.
Sheep €15.78m. Häcken €23.75m. Close too, should have given them a decent shout.
Huns €107.48m. Servette €27.81m, a bit like us and the Andorrans gap wise. It should have been a formality. PSV Eindhoven €180.83m.
Out of all that the best result was us against Lucerne. The match where the biggest financial deficit was overturned. The hertz were the only other club to achieve this.
It might not have been a good week for Scottish football but entirely predictable and not just because of the financial side as mentioned elsewhere.
I think any Scottish club, outwith the OF and even them sometimes, has to get the luck of the draw to stand a decent chance of progressing at these stages of European competitions.Space to let
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01-09-2023 02:15 PM #24
Aberdeen should really have beaten Hacken. They missed 2 outrageous chances, while Hacken missed an absolute sitter but had a player that looked immense who made the difference. Aberdeen should've done a better job on him rather than let him destroy them.
Hoping they make the same mistakes on Sunday.
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01-09-2023 02:21 PM #25This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-09-2023 02:31 PM #26
I'm not sure how much of it PSV get but to put things into perspective, the Dutch TV deal is worth €180 Million PER YEAR. Ours is worth £30 Million FFS.
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01-09-2023 02:31 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I can just about wish all the teams well, but I do bloody love seeing the tears and seethe in the crowd when they are getting horsed. Best of both worlds.
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01-09-2023 02:42 PM #28
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We dropped below Turkey last night.
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01-09-2023 02:49 PM #29This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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01-09-2023 05:29 PM #30This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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