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  1. #1
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
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    Scottish Clubs in Europe

    Four Scottish clubs played in Europe this week and the combined score was scored 2, conceded 15.

    When I was a kid, the Scottish clubs often did reasonably well, sometimes competing with top level European sides. Now I know this was an exceptionally bad week, but we do seem to have regressed quite a bit.

    The questions are; why have we dropped so significantly, and what could be done to improve our results and standing in Europe?


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    We were all ragdolled, though I must admit I immensely enjoyed seeing the others hammered
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    I actually thought Hibs and Hearts had decent results against Lucern and Rosenberg. The days of Hibs beating Napoli, Hearts beating Bayern Munich at home etc are over. If Hibs got massive investment from a multi-millionaire, our results would improve hugely. Simple really.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

  5. #4
    Money is the obvious answer. Scottish football doesn't generate nearly enough income when compared to leagues in Europe, so despite having gate receipts at an individual level that many a league would envy, TV and sponsorship put us on the back foot.

    When you look at the ties on an individual level the picture is quite clear. Us and the Hun were punching streets ahead of ourselves and a hiding was always on the cards. Aberdeen had a tough tie but poor finishing and lax defending meant they pretty much knocked themselves out. Hearts were the ones who had a shot against a side of relatively similar status and really should have done better (shame ).

    Obviously there are questions over grass roots and coaching but still the main defining factor is the commercial side. SPFL just needs better businessmen who can negotiate our relative worth to those investing in football.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_M View Post
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    Four Scottish clubs played in Europe this week and the combined score was scored 2, conceded 15.

    When I was a kid, the Scottish clubs often did reasonably well, sometimes competing with top level European sides. Now I know this was an exceptionally bad week, but we do seem to have regressed quite a bit.

    The questions are; why have we dropped so significantly, and what could be done to improve our results and standing in Europe?
    The obvious answer is money but you need to ask why we’re so far behind in that respect? It’s criminal that we pay the same Sky subscriptions that punters down South pay but the money from Sky UK is extremely poor coming back in a TV deal. Also, the way Scottish football tries everything it can to keep the cartel of Celtic and Rangers basically stops any meaningful league competition. It’s a self serving spiral to the bottom. Who would plough money into such a corrupt set up?

  7. #6
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    Wonder if there is similar navel gazing on Swiss forums. Two of their teams beat by Scots or in Sweeden, their champions scrapped through against our 3rd.

    We're a level bellow the top leagues and just like other small nations the gap will get bigger due to money

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member The Spaceman's Avatar
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    Worst results in Europe this season so far:

    1. Inter Descales 2 - 1 Hibs.
    2. PAOK 4 - 0 Hearts.
    3. PSV 5 - 1 Rangers.
    4. Aberdeen 1 - 3 Haken.
    5. Hibs 0 - 5 Aston Villa.

  9. #8
    Coaching Staff Waxy's Avatar
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    Maybe time the big Five countries played euro football against each other.

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member greenginger's Avatar
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    Do the Greeks or Swedes have more resources than Hearts or Dons.
    Does PSV have more than Rangers ?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    Do the Greeks or Swedes have more resources than Hearts or Dons.
    Does PSV have more than Rangers ?
    Greeks double wage bill of hearts, Sweeds although champions similar to Aberdeen, Rangers slightly more than PSV.

  12. #11
    Hibs and Hearts were always going out to those teams. Rangers and especially Aberdeen had a great opportunity. Rangers embarrassed themselves.

  13. #12
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    Rubbish tv deal and a too small top league. And too dominated by the uglies so no change will happen.

  14. #13
    Testimonial Due Renfrew_Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenginger View Post
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    Do the Greeks or Swedes have more resources than Hearts or Dons.
    Does PSV have more than Rangers ?
    Barry Robson commented before the game last night that Haken had a couple £1M signings in their team.
    Haken are more comparable to Ross County or St.Johnstone than they are to Aberdeen, Hearts or ourselves. As has been said, its the disparity in commercial and TV incomes that make the difference.
    Bodo in the Arctic Circle will receive many millions more than us in these areas.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renfrew_Hibby View Post
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    Barry Robson commented before the game last night that Haken had a couple £1M signings in their team.
    Haken are more comparable to Ross County or St.Johnstone than they are to Aberdeen, Hearts or ourselves. As has been said, its the disparity in commercial and TV incomes that make the difference.
    Bodo in the Arctic Circle will receive many millions more than us in these areas.
    That's just him making excuses, Hackens turnover is similar to Aberdeen and they are champions of Sweeden, both dwarfed by our champions. Hacken just got knocked out the champions league by a team from Faroe Islands so it isn't just about money I suppose.

    As I say Swiss must be apoplectic as two of their teams got knocked out by two Scottish teams, both who were on a poor run of form

    Rosenburg also got knocked out by a team of no marks

  16. #15
    Testimonial Due Skol's Avatar
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    Money is a big part but it’s nit just that. Most of these sides have quality local talent as well as big money players. If you look at Scotland as a whole we have very few players who can operate at that level. Those that can often move awAy. Calum mcgregor is arguably the only player of quality still in Scotland at the team he came through with.

  17. #16
    Money is the answer for us getting hosed by Villa. Rangers and PSV are not far apart at all in terms of income, not sure about Aberdeen v their opponent, and PAOK are one of the better draws a Scottish team could have hoped for.

    It’s easy to say money, and it’s a factor, but also we’re just not particularly good…

  18. #17
    Testimonial Due Wakeyhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_M View Post
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    Four Scottish clubs played in Europe this week and the combined score was scored 2, conceded 15.

    When I was a kid, the Scottish clubs often did reasonably well, sometimes competing with top level European sides. Now I know this was an exceptionally bad week, but we do seem to have regressed quite a bit.

    The questions are; why have we dropped so significantly, and what could be done to improve our results and standing in Europe?
    I think we've stood still whilst all around have improved.

    I still think our set up in Scotland goes against improvement both in governance and structure. The league structure is attritional financially for all but the top two and even they struggle outside of Scotland.

    We have essentially an administrator running the governance and promotion of the game financially. We should be looking to emulate other countries in how they sell the game and getting the right people in the position needed to achieve this.

    The SFA is largely the same. The recent plans (shelved fortunately) for Hampden had a curtain planned for low attendances how more backward thinking can you get?

    I don't buy the population argument as other similar countries do better at club & national level. The one unique difference we do have is the gulf between the OF v the rest and getting them to move for the betterment of the game as a whole is the main sticking point.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_M View Post
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    Four Scottish clubs played in Europe this week and the combined score was scored 2, conceded 15.

    When I was a kid, the Scottish clubs often did reasonably well, sometimes competing with top level European sides. Now I know this was an exceptionally bad week, but we do seem to have regressed quite a bit.

    The questions are; why have we dropped so significantly, and what could be done to improve our results and standing in Europe?
    I disagree, I think if you compare to how far Scottish clubs, especially non-Old Firm clubs have got in the last decade or so, getting to the play-offs is a sign of progress. In years gone by Hibs and Hearts would have went out in the previous round and the results are down to playing better opposition than we previously did, in time results against these clubs may improve as well.

  20. #19
    Coaching Staff Waxy's Avatar
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    Aberdeen in the same group as PAOK

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr What If? View Post
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    Money is the obvious answer. Scottish football doesn't generate nearly enough income when compared to leagues in Europe, so despite having gate receipts at an individual level that many a league would envy, TV and sponsorship put us on the back foot.

    When you look at the ties on an individual level the picture is quite clear. Us and the Hun were punching streets ahead of ourselves and a hiding was always on the cards. Aberdeen had a tough tie but poor finishing and lax defending meant they pretty much knocked themselves out. Hearts were the ones who had a shot against a side of relatively similar status and really should have done better (shame ).

    Obviously there are questions over grass roots and coaching but still the main defining factor is the commercial side. SPFL just needs better businessmen who can negotiate our relative worth to those investing in football.
    Rangers have a broadly similar turnover to PSV.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith_M View Post
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    Four Scottish clubs played in Europe this week and the combined score was scored 2, conceded 15.

    When I was a kid, the Scottish clubs often did reasonably well, sometimes competing with top level European sides. Now I know this was an exceptionally bad week, but we do seem to have regressed quite a bit.

    The questions are; why have we dropped so significantly, and what could be done to improve our results and standing in Europe?
    Get use to it because that's the future

  23. #22
    Ultimately it’s a case of us understanding our position. Perhaps it’s tougher for Scotland, a nation that has clubs that have previously competed for and won the big prizes to adjust its outlook to be in line with other smaller nations.

    We aren’t going to beat bigger clubs on skill alone, but we can absolutely be fit, strong and up for the fight. Everyone involved is a full time professional athlete, sure we can’t compete on skill, but we should be trying to at least match up in terms of physicality etc.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    I posted this on the Bounce this morning. Moderated for here 😆

    I know some folk aren't keen on Transfermarkt but as a guide to values I reckon it's as good as any.

    Hibs has a squad value of €12.35m.

    Inter Club d'Escaldes €3.73m so it's just as well we stuffed them ... eventually!

    When we played Lucerne we were punching, their squad value is €28.55m. I genuinely thought we'd get beaten and all credit to the team for progressing.

    Aston Villa**€603.50m. We were pissing in a gale force hurricane!

    So what of the others?

    Hertz €15.35m. Rosenborg €18.35m. Close. PAOK €48.30m. Progressing should have been unexpected but they are so ******* deluded.

    Sheep €15.78m. Häcken €23.75m. Close too, should have given them a decent shout.

    Huns €107.48m. Servette €27.81m, a bit like us and the Andorrans gap wise. It should have been a formality. PSV Eindhoven €180.83m.

    Out of all that the best result was us against Lucerne. The match where the biggest financial deficit was overturned. The hertz were the only other club to achieve this.

    It might not have been a good week for Scottish football but entirely predictable and not just because of the financial side as mentioned elsewhere.

    I think any Scottish club, outwith the OF and even them sometimes, has to get the luck of the draw to stand a decent chance of progressing at these stages of European competitions.
    Space to let

  25. #24
    Coaching Staff KWJ's Avatar
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    Aberdeen should really have beaten Hacken. They missed 2 outrageous chances, while Hacken missed an absolute sitter but had a player that looked immense who made the difference. Aberdeen should've done a better job on him rather than let him destroy them.

    Hoping they make the same mistakes on Sunday.

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    We were all ragdolled, though I must admit I immensely enjoyed seeing the others hammered
    Yep, said it on another thread but I couldn't care less about the co-efficient. I want to see only Hibs progress in Europe and the sooner the other Scottish clubs crash out the better - preferably in as humiliating a manner as possible.

  27. #26
    I'm not sure how much of it PSV get but to put things into perspective, the Dutch TV deal is worth €180 Million PER YEAR. Ours is worth £30 Million FFS.

  28. #27
    Coaching Staff KWJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by He's here! View Post
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    Yep, said it on another thread but I couldn't care less about the co-efficient. I want to see only Hibs progress in Europe and the sooner the other Scottish clubs crash out the better - preferably in as humiliating a manner as possible.
    It's a bit of having your cake and eating it too. The other clubs doing well will make it easier for Hibs to do well.

    I can just about wish all the teams well, but I do bloody love seeing the tears and seethe in the crowd when they are getting horsed. Best of both worlds.

  29. #28
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    We dropped below Turkey last night.

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by PatHead View Post
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    We dropped below Turkey last night.
    I'm surprised we were ahead of them in first place. They have some massive clubs and also make a fortune from sponsorship and TV. Their TV deal also blows ours out the water.

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Real Emerald View Post
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    The obvious answer is money but you need to ask why we’re so far behind in that respect? It’s criminal that we pay the same Sky subscriptions that punters down South pay but the money from Sky UK is extremely poor coming back in a TV deal. Also, the way Scottish football tries everything it can to keep the cartel of Celtic and Rangers basically stops any meaningful league competition. It’s a self serving spiral to the bottom. Who would plough money into such a corrupt set up?
    People in Scotland pay Sky etc subscriptions to watch English football, and to a lesser extent Rangers/Celtic there is no market for anything else. Who watches Scottish club football on TV? Very rarely me, zero interest other than watching Hibs, and can't remember last time I paid to watch Hibs on TV.

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