Terry Butcher - We made him a scapegoat apparently...

[Mixu62]

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Would he have got us straight back up? I suppose we will never know

He'd have got us out of the championship. ...and into league 1.

[SJM]

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He'd have got us out of the championship. ...and into league 1.

I don't think so. He knows what it takes to get out of this league as shown at Inverness. He still made a shambles of the job though and he makes bobby Williamson look as likeable as Ranieri.

[Giro Playboy]

I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.

[oneone73]

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oneone73 is referring to Pat Fenlon i think in relation to my post

Correct. Can't believe anyone thought I'd stick up for that erse Butcher. Grrr.

[H18S NX]

Butcher is an absolute tolley of a man,a clinker on the erse of humanity.

[SJM]

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I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.

Absolute baffling decision that was. Every last player hated the **** and Malpas more.

[J-C]

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I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.

Again down to Petrie, we waited 2 weeks for LD to take her job and Petrie gave her the remit to deal with Butcher, during that time he was allowed to get rid of half the playing squad and a load of youngsters, I think I remember Stubbs saying he would've kept Thomson on had he known what had happened, instead he signed for Dundee.

[SlickShoes]

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Again down to Petrie, we waited 2 weeks for LD to take her job and Petrie gave her the remit to deal with Butcher, during that time he was allowed to get rid of half the playing squad and a load of youngsters, I think I remember Stubbs saying he would've kept Thomson on had he known what had happened, instead he signed for Dundee.

Imagine coming in as Leann and being handed a manager thats just sacked everyone, that you can tell is an idiot and you now have to sack as well. Horrifying. Then you have to hire a new man and make it not sound like the worst job ever to walk in to.

[SJM]

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Imagine coming in as Leann and being handed a manager thats just sacked everyone, that you can tell is an idiot and you now have to sack as well. Horrifying. Then you have to hire a new man and make it not sound like the worst job ever to walk in to.

On the contrary, the decks where cleared and she could start from scratch as she has done. Far better than a St Mirren scenario, full of ***** players can't get rid of. Still shouldn't have been that **** butchers decision though.

[easty]

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I agree with that. We would never have got relegated under Fenlon. It was still the right decision to sack him.

We might not have, but I can't say with any confidence that we'd never have been relegated if he'd stayed. He didn't leave to go on to bigger and better things, he left cos he was well out his depth.

Out of the 15 games he was in charge in 2013/14, we failed to score in 8 of them. Those 15 games included utter humiliation in Europe, and two 1-0 defeats to the worst Hearts team I can remember. We scored 14 goals in those 15 games...5 of them in a 5-3 win against the mighty Stranraer in the cup.

Terry Butcher was a complete car crash of a manager, and I'd never let him into Easter Road again. I don't hold the same hatred for Fenlon, but he was a diddy of a manager.

[Jones28]

We were relegated because the team downed tools after the tool in charge told them they were no longer required...in January!

[Smartie]

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I still dont understand why Butcher was allowed to clear out virtually the whole squad just before he was sacked. I remember when Stubbs first arrived he had something like 11 senior players to work with and no goalies.

I'm not sure how many of those who left actually wanted to stay.

I wouldn't have kept any of the players that were emptied and I think Stubbs got the decisions relating to who was worth keeping 100% correct too.

[ChilliEater]

Without bothering to check stats - so I could be wrong - every team Butcher took over went into immediate freefall. However, the ones that didn't sack him (ICT and Motherwell) then bounced back. I'm quite sure if we'd kept him that he did have a plan, would have brought in almost an entire new squad and we may, or may not, have come back up before now. That "succesful" team would, however, have been filled with hard-working journeymen playing a high tempo, high pressure version of hoofball focussed on having Osman Sow at centre-forward. I'd rather have Stubbs style of passing football and take a bit longer to get there.

[emerald green]

Butcher is quoted as saying "you would have to ask them (the Hibs board) if they want to deflect the blame, but that's what it looks like."

The irony of that statement seems lost on this clown. This seems to me to be exactly what Butcher is trying to do himself. He doesn't seem to accept any responsibility for what happened, under his watch at ER, at all.

That said, some of the players taking wages at ER at the time were a disgrace during the slide into relegation. One point FFS. Could they not have just managed that?

They were both to some extent or other to blame. Terrible man management skills, and players who downed tools too. Disgrace.

Last, but not least. Petrie should have intervened and sacked Butcher (and Malpas) before Hibs fell through the trap door, when it became clear Hibs were in big danger of being relegated. It might just have kept Hibs up if Butcher & Malpas were away. We'll never know now of course.

[lucky]

He's telling lies. I hope Hibs come out and expose the charlatan for the lying clown that he is. He was asked for his football philosophy by LD and how he would take the club forward. Malpas and him failed to give a decent answer and were sacked.

[KeithTheHibby]

**** off Butcher you massive ****.

[Tyler Durden]

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We might not have, but I can't say with any confidence that we'd never have been relegated if he'd stayed. He didn't leave to go on to bigger and better things, he left cos he was well out his depth.

Out of the 15 games he was in charge in 2013/14, we failed to score in 8 of them. Those 15 games included utter humiliation in Europe, and two 1-0 defeats to the worst Hearts team I can remember. We scored 14 goals in those 15 games...5 of them in a 5-3 win against the mighty Stranraer in the cup.

Terry Butcher was a complete car crash of a manager, and I'd never let him into Easter Road again. I don't hold the same hatred for Fenlon, but he was a diddy of a manager.

What about Fenlons average league position? Is that not an accepted measure of a managers performance?

[SJM]

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What about Fenlons average league position? Is that not an accepted measure of a managers performance?

Average league position doesn't mean a lot as they are judged season to season. The year Fenlon left we had an absolute horrendous/humiliating start to the season that we never recovered from.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Average league position doesn't mean a lot as they are judged season to season. The year Fenlon left we had an absolute horrendous/humiliating start to the season that we never recovered from.

No we didnt, go look at the table when Fenlon left, we would have been easily secure.

[SJM]

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No we didnt, go look at the table when Fenlon left, we would have been easily secure.

Aye we did, we got destroyed off Malmo an had won 1 home league game all season and lost to hearts in admin twice. It wasn't good enough.

[Smartie]

We've argued about this quite recently - I think we would have been relegated under Fenlon.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for Butcher and might be inclined to agree with him re being a scapegoat if he'd maintained a dignified silence and not come out and said this.

He's an easy guy to dislike and it is tempting to pin all our problems on him but the truth is that there were a number of people equally if not more culpable. Petrie, Calderwood, Fenlon, many of the players - all of them made disgraceful contributions towards our demise. We needed a root and branch transformation of the club with LD coming in etc but only getting rid of Butcher and replacing him with, well, anyone else yet working the way we did before would have continued to have disastrous results.

Someone made a very fair observation above that when Butcher has been given time to destroy and rebuild a club he's generally done well. He's seldom been given that time though so it is easy to point to him as a failure. It is a scandalous dereliction of duty that this was not spotted prior to him coming in so his appointment must go down as a total disaster. He was 100% not the person we needed at that time and that much was not his fault and I can understand why he might feel a bit like he is being scapegoated.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Aye we did, we got destroyed off Malmo an had won 1 home league game all season and lost to hearts in admin twice. It wasn't good enough.

We got destroyed off Rangers, lost to Dumbarton twice and finished behind Falkirk. See how easy it is just to look at the negatives? You don't mention we played Motherwell who finished 2nd, Aberdeen who finished 3rd and Celtic at home in those early games, hardly an easy run. We also were the only team in a year to win in Perth and went on a run of 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss after losing at Tynie.

We were 5th in the table, I'd kill for that now, simple as.

[SJM]

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We got destroyed off Rangers, lost to Dumbarton twice and finished behind Falkirk. See how easy it is just to look at the negatives? You don't mention we played Motherwell who finished 2nd, Aberdeen who finished 3rd and Celtic at home in those early games, hardly an easy run. We also were the only team in a year to win in Perth and went on a run of 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss after losing at Tynie.

We were 5th in the table, I'd kill for that now, simple as.

Yet we only won once at home an the crowds where falling, there was protests and many had had enough of the boring negative football.

[Smartie]

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We got destroyed off Rangers, lost to Dumbarton twice and finished behind Falkirk. See how easy it is just to look at the negatives? You don't mention we played Motherwell who finished 2nd, Aberdeen who finished 3rd and Celtic at home in those early games, hardly an easy run. We also were the only team in a year to win in Perth and went on a run of 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss after losing at Tynie.

We were 5th in the table, I'd kill for that now, simple as.

Seriously? Those players, THAT chairman, that playing style?

We've had our problems since and we may yet have the most brutal kick in the nuts at the end of a season - ever - in store for us yet but you couldn't pay me any money to swap what we have now for what we had then.

We were well into a woeful downward spiral then and tbh I really don't think it's fair on LD, Stubbs and all the people who have contributed so much since Butcher was given his jotters and we started our revival to wear rose-tinted specs about what position we were in when Fenlon left.

[My_Wife_Camille]

Spoke to Tom Taiwo at Falkirk the other day and spoke briefly about Butcher. I wont repeat what he said about him but let's just say that it makes some of posts on here look kind

[MWHIBBIES]

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Yet we only won once at home an the crowds where falling, there was protests and many had had enough of the boring negative football.

Well they got what they asked for, Fenlon out worked wonders. The fans were as negative as the football, away games were so much better because folk actually supported the players.

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Seriously? Those players, THAT chairman, that playing style?

We've had our problems since and we may yet have the most brutal kick in the nuts at the end of a season - ever - in store for us yet but you couldn't pay me any money to swap what we have now for what we had then.

We were well into a woeful downward spiral then and tbh I really don't think it's fair on LD, Stubbs and all the people who have contributed so much since Butcher was given his jotters and we started our revival to wear rose-tinted specs about what position we were in when Fenlon left.

All we had to do was finished the season with Fenlon and appoint Dempster then, instead he was hounded out and we went down.

[Geo_1875]

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Aye we did, we got destroyed off Malmo an had won 1 home league game all season and lost to hearts in admin twice. It wasn't good enough.

It wasn't very good but I doubt we'd have been close to relegation under Fenlon that year. Butcher couldn't motivate the team to a couple of draws that would have saved us. I'd much rather have had Fenlon until the end of the season then said goodbye to him.

[--------]

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It wasn't very good but I doubt we'd have been close to relegation under Fenlon that year. Butcher couldn't motivate the team to a couple of draws that would have saved us. I'd much rather have had Fenlon until the end of the season then said goodbye to him.

IIRC he couldn't be bothered to actually turn up for the play-off final - wasn't he on holiday?

[Geo_1875]

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IIRC he couldn't be bothered to actually turn up for the play-off final - wasn't he on holiday?

Can't remember if he missed the game but Leeanne had to wait for him to come back from his holiday to sack him.

[Hibby Gav]

This is just dirty sevco rag stirring up dross from a terrible sevco ex captain who was a pathetic excuse for a manager just when we are starting our play off fight and cup preparation.....

delete delete delete

ggtth