Hillsborough verdict to be delivered at 11am

[FranckSuzy]

LBC's James O'Brien on Kelvin MacKenzie:

JFT96.jpg

[JimBHibees]

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Quite. As the current London mayor said in 2004



"Boris Johnson in Spectator, 2004...'Liverpool is a handsome city with a tribal sense of community. A combination of economic misfortune - its docks were, fundamentally, on the wrong side of England when Britain entered what is now the European Union - and an excessive predilection for welfarism have created a peculiar, and deeply unattractive, psyche among many Liverpudlians. They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society. The deaths of more than 50 Liverpool football supporters at Hillsborough in 1989 was undeniably a greater tragedy than the single death, however horrible, of Mr Bigley; but that is no excuse for Liverpool's failure to acknowledge, even to this day, the part played in the disaster by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground that Saturday afternoon. The police became a convenient scapegoat, and the Sun newspaper a whipping-boy for daring, albeit in a tasteless fashion, to hint at the wider causes of the incident.'

Why does he say more than 50 rather than 96?

[Bostonhibby]

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Why does he say more than 50 rather than 96?

Could be because he is a generaliser who also waffles and does even serious matters "on the hoof"?

Alternatively he's part of an establishment still trying to reduce and deflect the scale of it's monstrous conduct?

Or it could be because he's an erse?

[Betty Boop]

Andy Burnham gave an excellent speech to the House after PMQs today.

[JimBHibees]

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A Police and Government cover up, similar to Miners, Yewtree etc etc......Stinks to high heaven.

Justice finally, but shows how corrupt "Great Britain" is........

Any country that calls itself Great obviously isnt. Some people in this country are only too happy to try and slag off other countries and their legal institutions and cultures yet should look closer to home.

[JimBHibees]

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Could be because he is a generaliser who also waffles and does even serious matters "on the hoof"?

Alternatively he's part of an establishment still trying to reduce and deflect the scale of it's monstrous conduct?

Or it could be because he's an erse?

Probably all three.

[Monts]

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Why does he say more than 50 rather than 96?

I would imagine it's because he knows very little about it other than the spin he was told to put on it.

[Pretty Boy]

As an aside, and I have no idea if it's his thing or not, but if we persist with an antiquated honours system in this country isn't it about time Kenny Dalglish was knighted?

Not only is he arguably the greatest footballer Scotland has ever produced, his quiet dignity and strength both at the time of and in the years after Hillsborough are admirable. You can see even now when he speaks about it how close it came to breaking him. A quick scan of any Liverpool forum shows he is held in the highest regard, obviously for footballing reasons but for far more than that.

[Killiehibbie]

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As an aside, and I have no idea if it's his thing or not, but if we persist with an antiquated honours system in this country isn't it about time Kenny Dalglish was knighted?

Not only is he arguably the greatest footballer Scotland has ever produced, his quiet dignity and strength both at the time of and in the years after Hillsborough are admirable. You can see even now when he speaks about it how close it came to breaking him. A quick scan of any Liverpool forum shows he is held in the highest regard, obviously for footballing reasons but for far more than that.

I would hope he'd tell them to ram it.

[Future17]

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As an aside, and I have no idea if it's his thing or not, but if we persist with an antiquated honours system in this country isn't it about time Kenny Dalglish was knighted?

Not only is he arguably the greatest footballer Scotland has ever produced, his quiet dignity and strength both at the time of and in the years after Hillsborough are admirable. You can see even now when he speaks about it how close it came to breaking him. A quick scan of any Liverpool forum shows he is held in the highest regard, obviously for footballing reasons but for far more than that.

Maybe they've already approached him.

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I would hope he'd tell them to ram it.

Maybe he already has.

[Killiehibbie]

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Maybe they've already approached him.



Maybe he already has.

Mibbie aye, mibbie naw.

[Scouse Hibee]

It doesn't matter one bit about a knighthood. KING KENNY will always be regarded as the KING by Liverppool supportets and their families, the man is a legend on and off the pitch.

[emerald green]

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Andy Burnham gave an excellent speech to the House after PMQs today.

IMHO Andy Burnham takes a lot of credit for his work in helping to finally get justice for those who lost their lives in that terrible disaster, and for their families.

[21.05.2016]

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It doesn't matter one bit about a knighthood. KING KENNY will always be regarded as the KING by Liverppool supportets and their families, the man is a legend on and off the pitch.

[hibsbollah]

Front page news in every paper in Britain. Except the Sun where it was relegated to page 8, and The Times, also owned by Murdoch.

Astonishing.

[21.05.2016]

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Front page news in every paper in Britain. Except the Sun where it was relegated to page 8, and The Times, also owned by Murdoch.

Astonishing.

**** institution. The truth and justice relegated to page 8 but when it came to publishing disgusting lies it was a front page spread.

[Bostonhibby]

The only way to make any impression on Murdoch is by boycotting all his products, sky included

[Smartie]

Anyone know what the helicopter was doing that they kept referring to at the vigil?

[Hibs Class]

David Cameron seemed pretty astonished that the Labour MP who made an offensive anti semitic post on Facebook hadn't been suspended from the party. Wonder if he'll be equally surprised when he finds out that that Boris johnson hasn't been suspended for his comments about Liverpool.

[Eyrie]

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David Cameron seemed pretty astonished that the Labour MP who made an offensive anti semitic post on Facebook hadn't been suspended from the party. Wonder if he'll be equally surprised when he finds out that that Boris johnson hasn't been suspended for his comments about Liverpool.

You'll never get consistency from a politician. Both should have been dealt with properly, but Johnson got away with it by turning his "apology" into yet another personal publicity stunt.

[hibsbollah]

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**** institution. The truth and justice relegated to page 8 but when it came to publishing disgusting lies it was a front page spread.

They actually had a chance to redeem themselves yesterday if they had a 'mea culpa' editorial, saying sorry and sacking McKenzie. They might even have got some readership back. But they chose to stick up a middle finger at everyone instead.

[Betty Boop]

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IMHO Andy Burnham takes a lot of credit for his work in helping to finally get justice for those who lost their lives in that terrible disaster, and for their families.

Yes he does. Kenny Dalglish reading 'Footprints' at the Memorial Service was so emotional made me cry, and I'm not religious. At the end he said 'In other words You Will Never Walk Alone'.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Informative programme on 5Live now - grim listening

[ScottB]

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They actually had a chance to redeem themselves yesterday if they had a 'mea culpa' editorial, saying sorry and sacking McKenzie. They might even have got some readership back. But they chose to stick up a middle finger at everyone instead.

Caught an interview with him last night where he suggested he / they were victims of the police's lies too in what they reported.

The guy is a total waste of skin, not just for this, but so many other things too!

[jgl07]

The Hillsborough disaster was a combination of a number of factors including supporters arriving late for the match (it always happened back then), the terrible state of the stadium, the criminal incompetance of the police, and maybe a few fans had a drink too many.

However what turned a potential disaster into a real one was the fences. I was in a few potential problems in the 1960xs, the worst of which was at Filbert Street Leicester. We were able to get over the wall and sit on the running track for the rest of the match after a crush developed. Had there been fences, there would have been deaths that day.

Who was responsible for treating football fans like animals by putting up fences? It was the then Government. I hold Thatcher personally responsible and cabinet Goverment was not operating at the time because none of the feeble idiots in the cabinet would stand up to her.

I would also like to see Rupert Murdoch, Kelvin McKenzie, and South Yorkshire Police indicted for criminal conspiracy in their botched attempt to cover up the police's role in the events.

[hibsbollah]

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The Hillsborough disaster was a combination of a number of factors including supporters arriving late for the match (it always happened back then), the terrible state of the stadium, the criminal incompetance of the police, and maybe a few fans had a drink too many.

However what turned a potential disaster into a real one was the fences. I was in a few potential problems in the 1960xs, the worst of which was at Filbert Street Leicester. We were able to get over the wall and sit on the running track for the rest of the match after a crush developed. Had there been fences, there would have been deaths that day.

.

The jury found yesterday that 'fans having a drink too many' had NO bearing on what happened. It's just a lie that has seeped into public consciousness by repetition.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

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[jgl07]

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The jury found yesterday that 'fans having a drink too many' had NO bearing on what happened. It's just a lie that has seeped into public consciousness by repetition.

I never said it was a major contributory factor but there were a chain of events. I know that for some Liverpool fans are beyond criticism but it wasn't that long after Heysel!

I attended loads of semi-finals at Hillsborough, Villa Park, Old Trafford and Maine Road. If none of those at Hillsborough had a drink or two it would have been a first. People arriving late was a factor. In most cases when I arrived late for a match it was because we spent too much time in the pub.

The police should have acted by ordering the match to be delayed to give time for everyone to get in. The ground should have had more turnstiles., etc etc.

[--------]

Regarding "truth", "drink-fuelled yobs", Rupert Murdoch and his mini-me Mckenzie ....

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-presenter-tears-cornered-rat-11251900#ICID=sharebar_twitter

I don't know if anyone's put this up already - apologies if they have - but this guy says it all.

Though personally, I think he's being a bit unfair to cornered rats .....

[Steve-O]

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I never said it was a major contributory factor but there were a chain of events. I know that for some Liverpool fans are beyond criticism but it wasn't that long after Heysel!

I attended loads of semi-finals at Hillsborough, Villa Park, Old Trafford and Maine Road. If none of those at Hillsborough had a drink or two it would have been a first. People arriving late was a factor. In most cases when I arrived late for a match it was because we spent too much time in the pub.

The police should have acted by ordering the match to be delayed to give time for everyone to get in. The ground should have had more turnstiles., etc etc.

Agree somewhat on that point. I think anyone who has been to a semi final anywhere will know that's highly unlikely to have been the case that some people would be a bit worse for wear. Still, that's not to say, at all, that some fans being a bit drunk caused this, but it may have had some effect on the decision making of some individuals on the day in terms of what time they were going to head to the ground, and where they went on arrival. But, it's very clear from all the evidence that the crushing was happening before the gate was opened, and the signage to the other side pens was woefully inadequate - people who didn't know the ground would not have even known there was another way in as far as I can make out.