Loyalty Scheme - Back To The Drawing Board

[lucky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You have already had it explained to you multiple times how HSL membership differs from owning shares in Hibernian FC. If you don't understand the difference or choose to ignore it then that's your problem.

To reverse the argument. Why as a HSL member do I not receive a copy of the annual accounts and an invite to the AGM? Why does my HSL membership not entitle me to a vote on matters raised at AGMs? Why can't I sell my HSL membership on? Where is my share certificate?

As a HSL member I demand the same rights and benefits of a shareholder!

... oh wait, I knowingly signed up for something different.

Spot on 100% correct

[CapitalGreen]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Of course they have, one of the main points of any loyalty scheme is to drive or steer consumer behaviour in the direction that the business wants them to go. I have no problem with the loyalty scheme and don't think it needs to go back to the drawing board either, in fact I think that stance would be ridiculous to the extreme.

For the record I wasn't criticising, I agree with the clubs approach.

[Scouse Hibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

For the record I wasn't criticising, I agree with the clubs approach.

Yes I know, I was agreeing with you but maybe would have been better quoting another post for my reply :-)

[FromTheCapital]

I don't see a problem with it in any way, shape or form. It rewards those who attend week in, week out or pledge money in other ways to the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[.Sean.]

I think it's fine but they could perhaps stagger the cut offs a bit more for away matches so you've not got people who miss out by the odd point going in for tickets at the same time as those who never go to away games

[et_hibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't see a problem with it in any way, shape or form. It rewards those who attend week in, week out or pledge money in other ways to the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a occasional ticket buyer myself (young family, Hibs Kids games) it seems a bona fide way to incentivise upping sales/ticket buying.

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You have already had it explained to you multiple times how HSL membership differs from owning shares in Hibernian FC. If you don't understand the difference or choose to ignore it then that's your problem.

I must have missed those explanations, is there a thread on it?

I'd genuinely like to know the difference between HSL and shareholders so I've asked some questions below.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

To reverse the argument. Why as a HSL member do I not receive a copy of the annual accounts and an invite to the AGM?

I would have thought that the HSL board would receive a copy of the accounts and an invite to the AGM? It would then be their responsibility to share the accounts with the members? Are accounts not available to everyone though, for a limited company?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why does my HSL membership not entitle me to a vote on matters raised at AGMs?

Do matters for voting not need to be on the Agenda distributed prior to the AGM? Does the HSL not allow it's members to vote on issues prior to the AGM to gauge members feelings, prior to the HSL board submitting the HSL votes?
Not that it makes any difference, both are a minority vote and hold no real influence in the final count.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why can't I sell my HSL membership on?

Can't you? Is it not possible to pass your membership on? For example, what if a member wanted to pass it on to his son a few years down the line?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Where is my share certificate?

I thought I saw something on another thread about having to complete a form for an HSL certificate? I know it's not a share certificate, but it'll look just as impressive framed and on the wall?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As a HSL member I demand the same rights and benefits of a shareholder!

Depending on the answers the the above questions, there may not be a huge difference between the rights and benefits.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You have already had it explained to you multiple times how HSL membership differs from owning shares in Hibernian FC. If you don't understand the difference or choose to ignore it then that's your problem.

To reverse the argument. Why as a HSL member do I not receive a copy of the annual accounts and an invite to the AGM? Why does my HSL membership not entitle me to a vote on matters raised at AGMs? Why can't I sell my HSL membership on? Where is my share certificate?

As a HSL member I demand the same rights and benefits of a shareholder!

... oh wait, I knowingly signed up for something different.

And I have explained till I'm blue in the face why in the context of awarding loyalty points according to a fans input to the club that difference is utterly immaterial ..... we are not talking about access to the AGM or who can sell what on, we are talking about access to games which is the only thing that matters under a loyalty points system ..... There is no justification for giving greater access to matches to HSL members over independent shareholders in that context ( in any context ) ....... the number of matches, if any, this would affect doesn't matter, it shouldn't be happening.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And I have explained till I'm blue in the face why in the context of awarding loyalty points according to a fans input to the club that difference is utterly immaterial ..... we are not talking about access to the AGM or who can sell what on, we are talking about access to games which is the only thing that matters under a loyalty points system ..... There is no justification for giving greater access to matches to HSL members over independent shareholders in that context ( in any context ) ....... the number of matches, if any, this would affect doesn't matter, it shouldn't be happening.

HSL offered you a chance to get the 100 loyalty points by assigning some of your shares to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

HSL offered you a chance to get the 100 loyalty points by assigning some of your shares to them.

Did they? I've never seen this offer.
When? How?

I bought shares as soon as they became available .. even before the HSL scheme was finalised.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

HSL offered you a chance to get the 100 loyalty points by assigning some of your shares to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No offence Ozy, but so what?

I didn't actually know that, but to me that just takes a sad song and makes it worse ..... what are we saying now, that Hibernian FC loyalty points are in the gift of HSL to be used by them to persuade small shareholders to part with their shares? That's a totally different thing from loyalty points for subscribing to HSL.

The idea was 51% fan ownership of the club. If the formation of HSL means there is a large power block within that 51% when we get there I'm ok with that ..... but if we are already at the stage where the club is deferring to that power block and giving them carte blanch to hand out rewards, incentives and privileges that should be administered by the club for the benefit of ALL of its supporters then I for one am far from happy about that.

The way this is going its looking more and more like we have moved from 51% fan ownership of the club to 51% HSL ownership of the club, why else would HSL be using the clubs loyalty points scheme to try and get independent shareholders to transfer their shares when there are millions out there still to be purchased?

What next ..... cheaper season tickets for HSL members? .......over dramatic? lets hope so, but it seems to me that somewhere down this road if you aren't a member of HSL or Tom Farmer you will be on the outside with your nose pressed to the glass as a supporter of this club.

[The Green Goblin]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

50 points ST
25 half ST
10 Hibs TV
2 points home game
1 point away game

Simple and the smaller numbers make it seem more manageable imo.

Plus one point for each post you have made on hibs.net? ;-)

But to be serious, your numbers there look really good to me. Fair, proportionate and simple, as you say. The inclusion of hibs tv is right too, as an annual subs costs £90, nothing like an actual ER season ticket, but still an amount that should get something pointswise.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Plus one point for each post you have made on hibs.net? ;-)

But to be serious, your numbers there look really good to me. Fair, proportionate and simple, as you say. The inclusion of hibs tv is right too, as an annual subs costs £90, nothing like an actual ER season ticket, but still an amount that should get something pointswise.

That sounds fair to me .... it gives overseas fans a chance to get points for supporting the club in one of the few ways they can.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No offence Ozy, but so what?

I didn't actually know that, but to me that just takes a sad song and makes it worse ..... what are we saying now, that Hibernian FC loyalty points are in the gift of HSL to be used by them to persuade small shareholders to part with their shares? That's a totally different thing from loyalty points for subscribing to HSL.

The idea was 51% fan ownership of the club. If the formation of HSL means there is a large power block within that 51% when we get there I'm ok with that ..... but if we are already at the stage where the club is deferring to that power block and giving them carte blanch to hand out rewards, incentives and privileges that should be administered by the club for the benefit of ALL of its supporters then I for one am far from happy about that.

The way this is going its looking more and more like we have moved from 51% fan ownership of the club to 51% HSL ownership of the club, why else would HSL be using the clubs loyalty points scheme to try and get independent shareholders to transfer their shares when there are millions out there still to be purchased?

What next ..... cheaper season tickets for HSL members? .......over dramatic? lets hope so, but it seems to me that somewhere down this road if you aren't a member of HSL or Tom Farmer you will be on the outside with your nose pressed to the glass as a supporter of this club.

I now think you are deliberately misunderstanding things.
Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

The problems only really started when the club decided to give HSL members the extra 100 points. They have it in their power to rectify it. In my group, we have youngsters who like to go to away matches, but their parents will have 100 points more than them, so they'll either miss out on tickets, or have to wait for the points bands to drop down, and hope they can get tickets together.

Lots of good suggestions on here regarding the rewarding of points to other groups outwith HSL (Hibs tv/Shareholders), and I think the club need to act.

The club will continue to have people on their backs until they rectify this self inflicted problem.

[Ozyhibby]

And if people continue to get on the club's back then the scheme will be scrapped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And if people continue to get on the club's back then the scheme will be scrapped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If people have service issues or queries they've got every right to contact the club.

If they scrap it do you not think that will generate a fair number of complaints?

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If people have service issues or queries they've got every right to contact the club.

If they scrap it do you not think that will generate a fair number of complaints?

I'm not disagreeing. I'm not saying the new system isn't fair. All I'm saying is the old system cost zero to operate and the new system is costing more than expected. This is a system for distributing other clubs tickets that is costing Hibs money. You can surely see why this may be causing concern?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CapitalGreen]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I must have missed those explanations, is there a thread on it?

I'd genuinely like to know the difference between HSL and shareholders so I've asked some questions below.



I would have thought that the HSL board would receive a copy of the accounts and an invite to the AGM? It would then be their responsibility to share the accounts with the members? Are accounts not available to everyone though, for a limited company?



Do matters for voting not need to be on the Agenda distributed prior to the AGM? Does the HSL not allow it's members to vote on issues prior to the AGM to gauge members feelings, prior to the HSL board submitting the HSL votes?
Not that it makes any difference, both are a minority vote and hold no real influence in the final count.



Can't you? Is it not possible to pass your membership on? For example, what if a member wanted to pass it on to his son a few years down the line?



I thought I saw something on another thread about having to complete a form for an HSL certificate? I know it's not a share certificate, but it'll look just as impressive framed and on the wall?



Depending on the answers the the above questions, there may not be a huge difference between the rights and benefits.

Educate yourself - http://www.informdirect.co.uk/shares/shareholders-rights-guide/

However, it appears you already recognise the differences as you detail them clearly in your questions. My argument was never that there was a 'huge difference', it was just that people were knowingly signing up for different things. Hibs produced a lengthy Q&A detailing differences at the time so their is no excuse for ignorance on this matter.

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Educate yourself - http://www.informdirect.co.uk/shares...-rights-guide/

Well that was just a bit condescending.

Educate yourself - https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/condescending

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

However, it appears you already recognise the differences as you detail them clearly in your questions. My argument was never that there was a 'huge difference', it was just that people were knowingly signing up for different things. Hibs produced a lengthy Q&A detailing differences

See above link ..

The questions were genuine questions that I was looking for answers to. I'm not in the HSL so genuinely have no idea of voting rights of members and whether HSL have voting rights at an AGM. How about ansering the questions instead of throwing out arrogant replies?
I bought shares pretty much the same day that they were released. At the time of their release HSL were still in the process of forming, so NO some people did not knowingly sign up for different things. As I'd already parted with my hard earned cash, there was not real need for me to go through detailed Q&A's produced weeks after the event. In much the same way that there's no real need for me to click on your smart *** link, it's not relevant.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

so their is no excuse for ignorance on this matter.

Please refer again to the above link.

Whilst refuting your claim, and putting aside your spelling error, I'd still rather be viewed as ignorant than a complete ******.

[Danderhall Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And sign up for HSL Billy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are they going to give points out again? When does that open up?

[B.H.F.C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not disagreeing. I'm not saying the new system isn't fair. All I'm saying is the old system cost zero to operate and the new system is costing more than expected. This is a system for distributing other clubs tickets that is costing Hibs money. You can surely see why this may be causing concern?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Without knowing how much exactly it's costing, no I don't.

I'm sure if it's not cost effective then the club will get rid of it, but until such time as they say anything we are just speculating aren't we. Either way, they're going to have a fair number of queries to deal with.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Most people complaining, and in the greater scheme of things there are not that many of them, are doing so because it doesn't suit their personal circumstances or they want to go with pals who somehow don't have enough points. Such is life kiddos. The scheme was set up to make sure that this who go most get first dibs and this seems to work not too badly.

[Lucius Apuleius]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are they going to give points out again? When does that open up?

Personally I would like to see those who bought CTUs given more points than normal ST purchases, as well as share buyers, even historic holders.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Are they going to give points out again? When does that open up?

HSL don't give out points, the club do.
I would be too scared to ask the club anything about loyalty points just now so I don't know.
I very much doubt the club will do it again, in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Personally I would like to see those who bought CTUs given more points than normal ST purchases, as well as share buyers, even historic holders.

CTU get more points as every time there is a home tie, ten points get automatically added.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Speedy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why are so many fans obsessed with giving other clubs money.

He's not obsessed with giving others money, he's saying those that go to away games to support the team should get first dibs on away games.

[Speedy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Exactly. It is costing the club money it can ill afford and it brings in zero extra revenue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They've had more revenue from me due to loyalty points.

[CapitalGreen]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They've had more revenue from me due to loyalty points.

and me!

[GreenCastle]

What I don't like about it is they just seem to pick and choose which games get points.

I would prefer it more consistent.

No points for some away matches and no points for the replay for example.

It's a work in progress but it's either you give points for games or you don't.

I also think there should be an option that if you go to and pay for people's tickets (enticing friends to come back to ER) like a referral system you should be rewarded as this is helping the club.

I've spent more this season than ever before and brough friends who stopped going back to ER but I still am not in the first wave of tickets (just missed out).

I have put more money into the club than some who have only had 2 STs and been to a semi and they get ahead in the order.

I would keep it simple - for every pound spent you get a point.