Loyalty Scheme - Back To The Drawing Board

[Ozyhibby]

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This is precisely why the loyalty scheme is a good thing. If I was one of those 800 (I'm not) I'd be mighty annoyed that someone who hasn't been to an away game all season (180 points) was able to get online in a scramble faster than me, so I miss out because they want to go to Ibrox but not Palmerston, Cappielow etc.

It appears the grumble is that in the past if you've had a season ticket you get the same priority as every other season ticket holder, but the above scenario shows exactly why that could be unfair. Now they've got a way of measuring attendance they can make it fair.

Instances like Ibrox, make the first threshold at the point that everyone is guaranteed a ticket. After two days or whatever you know how many are left and drop the threshold where folk are guaranteed at a lower level. Do that until you're at the point that it's a mad scramble for the last few tickets between folks all on the same point total. This kind of thing would only need to be done for a few games a season so not a burden.

For me a more valid gripe is where any cut-offs are made. Hearts away I got lucky to be in the first wave, but can fully understand why someone on 390 would be annoyed that someone on 180 gets an equal chance as them in the second wave. The same soul on 390 though can't say that's unfair then expect to have the same priority as someone with 450.

For most games it is utterly irrelevant, and I also have never not got a ticket when I wanted one, but rewarding loyal customers can only be a good thing for me.

I don't disagree with any off your points on fairness. The new system might be fairer but has the unintended consequence of discouraging season ticket sales.
Lots of people buy season tickets even though it makes no financial sense to do so (they miss games due to work, family etc). One of the reasons they did so was that it gave them a chance at tickets for big games. Take that away and they may stop buying their season ticket. There is evidence on here that that is what some people are considering.
We may achieve a fairer system while at the same time costing the club money.
I'm not trying to be arsey here, just pointing out what could be an unintended consequence.


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[BSEJVT]

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A loyalty scheme was talked about on here for years as a way to reward those fans who could not put out the cash for a season ticket up front but still attended games at Easter Road on a regular basis. it would give them a much bigger chance of getting tickets for Away games when demand outstripped supply. At some point it became something else entirely, a way of guaranteeing a relatively small number of fans tickets for those games. That's great for those of us who benefit from it, I am one, but it isn't going to see regular walk ups chances for tickets increased by much.
I'd keep the scheme but ditch the points given to away games. We should be doing more to fill our own ground.

This thread in a nutshell encapsulates the problems the club have with the issue.

One person wants only away ticket purchases to count another only home purchases.

There is merit in both arguments, but either way the club are on a hiding to nothing.

[Ozyhibby]

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This thread in a nutshell encapsulates the problems the club have with the issue.

One person wants only away ticket purchases to count another only home purchases.

There is merit in both arguments, but either way the club are on a hiding to nothing.

And it's costing the club money dealing with it.


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[Borderhibbie76]

Nothing wrong with it...just fans who have now missed out a ticket for Tuesday that are complaining...not meant as an uber fan comment but those of us who have stood and got soaked at the likes of alloa and cowdenbeath these last 2 seasons are rewarded under the loyalty scheme...thats the way it should be im afraid.

[Ozyhibby]

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Nothing wrong with it...just fans who have now missed out a ticket for Tuesday that are complaining...not meant as an uber fan comment but those of us who have stood and got soaked at the likes of alloa and cowdenbeath these last 2 seasons are rewarded under the loyalty scheme...thats the way it should be im afraid.

You only needed 1 loyalty point to get a ticket for Tuesday.



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[Kojock]

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The scheme does reward those supporters who go to the most games, they just rightly prioritise home attendance over away.

Read the initial launch material from the club. They stated at the time that points may be awarded for non-ticket purchases in the future. Nobody moved any goalposts.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Doesn't mention anything like that at the initial launch.

[Ozyhibby]

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http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Doesn't mention anything like that at the initial launch.

Read it again.

The Club may also run special promotions for additional bonus points throughout the season.

It's there in black and white.


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[Borderhibbie76]

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You only needed 1 loyalty point to get a ticket for Tuesday.



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Could be wrong mate but was it not 90 or over??

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[CapitalGreen]

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http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/5241

Doesn't mention anything like that at the initial launch.

You're not very good at reading are you?

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Will points be awarded for other purchases I make?

The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing.

[CapitalGreen]

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And it's costing the club money dealing with it.


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Do you know how much the club is saving by fans pre-purchasing tickets and printing at home to ensure they receive loyalty points instead of PATG?

[Kojock]

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I don't disagree with any off your points on fairness. The new system might be fairer but has the unintended consequence of discouraging season ticket sales.
Lots of people buy season tickets even though it makes no financial sense to do so (they miss games due to work, family etc). One of the reasons they did so was that it gave them a chance at tickets for big games. Take that away and they may stop buying their season ticket. There is evidence on here that that is what some people are considering.
We may achieve a fairer system while at the same time costing the club money.
I'm not trying to be arsey here, just pointing out what could be an unintended consequence.


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Re the bit in bold, so a season ticket holder who decides that he/she wanted to attend their first away match at Tynecastle last weekend should get the same chance to get a ticket as a supporter who has been to Cowdenbeath, Alloa and Morton in the pouring rain and freezing cold. ??

[lapsedhibee]

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You only needed 1 loyalty point to get a ticket for Tuesday.

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Could be wrong mate but was it not 90 or over??

Could also be wrong but I don't think you needed any - you just had to be on the database.

[Kojock]

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You're not very good at reading are you?

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Will points be awarded for other purchases I make?

The Club is looking at potentially linking other purchases to the loyalty scheme in the future. This may include retail parts of the Club but the priority just now is to launch the scheme with ticketing.

Doh !! read that twice to. Apologies for that.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

It should definitely have a rotational element - in other words previously earned points drop off after a while, e.g. like Scotland supporters club which works with 1 point for each of last 10 away games, so the point from 10th game always drops off when there's another away game.

[Ken]

If a supporter doesn't renew their season ticket because they're not in the top bracket then more fool them, because come next season they'll be even further down the pecking order.

As someone said previously it only effects about 3 or 4 games a season.


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[Brightside]

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Re the bit in bold, so a season ticket holder who decides that he/she wanted to attend their first away match at Tynecastle last weekend should get the same chance to get a ticket as a supporter who has been to Cowdenbeath, Alloa and Morton in the pouring rain and freezing cold. ??

100% yes! Why would it be otherwise?

[Kojock]

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It should definitely have a rotational element - in other words previously earned points drop off after a while, e.g. like Scotland supporters club which works with 1 point for each of last 10 away games, so the point from 10th game always drops off when there's another away game.

I'm not in the Scotland Supporters Club so don't know how it works but is there not a possibility of people buying away tickets to keep their points total up and not actually attend the game.

[BSEJVT]

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And it's costing the club money dealing with it.


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I think that any business that focuses purely on the costs of doing something and doesn't take into account the income and other benefits of the service or product that is creating those costs whether they are tangible or intangible is completely missing the point.

The scheme is still in its relative infancy and already people are becoming more knowledgeable about it.

The teething problems and constraints the scheme has will soon be business as usual and any cost implications will reduce considerably when that happens

Whether people like it or not it is here to stay as any withdrawal would be unthinkable.

Time for folk to get behind it and stop mumping.

If increasing age has taught me anything it is the need to accept what you cannot hope to change and focus (as you do through HSL Ozy) in influencing things you can change.

Anything else is wasted energy

[Kojock]

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100% yes! Why would it be otherwise?

Then if that's the case we should scrap the loyalty scheme and go back to the season ticket free for all.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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This is precisely why the loyalty scheme is a good thing. If I was one of those 800 (I'm not) I'd be mighty annoyed that someone who hasn't been to an away game all season (180 points) was able to get online in a scramble faster than me, so I miss out because they want to go to Ibrox but not Palmerston, Cappielow etc.

It appears the grumble is that in the past if you've had a season ticket you get the same priority as every other season ticket holder, but the above scenario shows exactly why that could be unfair. Now they've got a way of measuring attendance they can make it fair.

Instances like Ibrox, make the first threshold at the point that everyone is guaranteed a ticket. After two days or whatever you know how many are left and drop the threshold where folk are guaranteed at a lower level. Do that until you're at the point that it's a mad scramble for the last few tickets between folks all on the same point total. This kind of thing would only need to be done for a few games a season so not a burden.

For me a more valid gripe is where any cut-offs are made. Hearts away I got lucky to be in the first wave, but can fully understand why someone on 390 would be annoyed that someone on 180 gets an equal chance as them in the second wave. The same soul on 390 though can't say that's unfair then expect to have the same priority as someone with 450.

For most games it is utterly irrelevant, and I also have never not got a ticket when I wanted one, but rewarding loyal customers can only be a good thing for me.

Excellent post

Like you, I think it could be tweaked a wee bit in terms of how the points threshold was set for one or two games, but overall it's about ensuring that those who have attended most matches can get tickets when demand is very high, which is only fair. Such small issues are no reason to abolish the whole scheme, IMHO.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I'm not in the Scotland Supporters Club so don't know how it works but is there not a possibility of people buying away tickets to keep their points total up and not actually attend the game.

Simple question, have you done that?

I don't see the point in buying ticket for, let's say, Alloa and not then go to support the team. All you have done is given another club some money for no personal gain. A bit like buying a £300 flight to New York to get Air Miles so you can fly to London for nothing

[BSEJVT]

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Then if that's the case we should scrap the loyalty scheme and go back to the season ticket free for all.

No we shouldn't

Those that have season tickets and go away will end up with more points and get first dibs on tickets before those who either just have season tickets or just go away.

The effect of the 100 point HSL bonus will dissipate over a short period and those that go most will get first chance on any limited ticket events.

What is remotely unfair about that?

[Brightside]

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Then if that's the case we should scrap the loyalty scheme and go back to the season ticket free for all.

What you would like is an Away Supporters Only Loyalty Scheme..... Which has NO financial benefit to OUR club but plenty benefit to all other clubs. That makes no sense.

[Kojock]

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Simple question, have you done that?

I don't see the point in buying ticket for, let's say, Alloa and not then go to support the team. All you have done is given another club some money for no personal gain. A bit like buying a £300 flight to New York to get Air Miles so you can fly to London for nothing

Not so far, but if I was unable to go to Alloa but I knew I needed the points to guarantee me a ticket for Ibrox then yes I would.

[grammyb111]

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I don't disagree with any off your points on fairness. The new system might be fairer but has the unintended consequence of discouraging season ticket sales.
Lots of people buy season tickets even though it makes no financial sense to do so (they miss games due to work, family etc). One of the reasons they did so was that it gave them a chance at tickets for big games. Take that away and they may stop buying their season ticket. There is evidence on here that that is what some people are considering.
We may achieve a fairer system while at the same time costing the club money.
I'm not trying to be arsey here, just pointing out what could be an unintended consequence.


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I get your point, I miss quite a few games each season, it certainly makes no financial sense for me to have a season ticket, but I do because I want to support the club. My commitment amounts to a season ticket, a cup top up and 4-5 away games, but I don't get annoyed (nor do I feel I'd have any right to) if I miss out on a chance to get a ticket for Ibrox because someone else has a greater commitment.

Those odd big games though are exactly that, ones where (like Hearts) even season ticket holders had a mad scramble for tickets, there is no guarantee they'd get one.

If we were to weigh up season ticket holders who buy a ticket for the extra chance of getting a big away game ticket (I can't see there being that many, but clearly will be some) vs walk-ups who go to an extra game because it'll move them into a higher wave, I'd imagine there would be more of the latter. From there I understand your conclusion that priority one is ST holders and priority two is points bands below ST. If we had points for walk-ups only then of course it's unlikely that the 'home and away' fans would be put off, it's what they do on a Saturday, but there is now the facility to reward that hard core.

I won't be the same for everyone of course, but if we balance money lost because of the odd season ticket holder that buys one to have a better chance of tickets for away games vs keeping your most loyal fans/customers happy then I'd plump for the latter. As you said, it is a fairer system, so if I was one of the 'buy ST for a chance of a big away game' supporters I wouldn't blame Hibs for being fair and looking after the most loyal. If I felt there were many of those 'better chance' holders saying they wouldn't renew my opinion would probably be different...

[Ozyhibby]

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I think that any business that focuses purely on the costs of doing something and doesn't take into account the income and other benefits of the service or product that is creating those costs whether they are tangible or intangible is completely missing the point.

The scheme is still in its relative infancy and already people are becoming more knowledgeable about it.

The teething problems and constraints the scheme has will soon be business as usual and any cost implications will reduce considerably when that happens

Whether people like it or not it is here to stay as any withdrawal would be unthinkable.

Time for folk to get behind it and stop mumping.

If increasing age has taught me anything it is the need to accept what you cannot hope to change and focus (as you do through HSL Ozy) in influencing things you can change.

Anything else is wasted energy

I don't accept that it can't be changed.

I honestly have no probs with the fairness of the system or the awarding of points for other things.
I really just don't want people not renewing season tickets because of it.


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[Kojock]

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What you would like is an Away Supporters Only Loyalty Scheme..... Which has NO financial benefit to OUR club but plenty benefit to all other clubs. That makes no sense.

Any walk up fan at ER is always going to struggle to get a ticket for an away game. Season ticket holders who don't go to away games will struggle to get a ticket for an away game where there is a limited amount of tickets ie Dumbarton and Ibrox. So IMO the loyalty scheme has little or no financial benefit to Hibs.

[Onion]

The one thing the club needs to do is review the scheme in light of the last few oversubscribed games to see if it is meeting the objectives and satisfying the majority of the fans the club is looking to incentivise. That could be done is lots of ways and a good project for the Supporter Directors to take a lead in. Taking the views of those who have benefited from the scheme as evidence of success would be silly. It's those who are in the middle ground (loyal but devalued) that need to be assessed or convinced of the scheme's merits.

The very last thing they want is a huge admin burden and lots of unhappy (loyal) supporters. At the end of the review, make any tweaks needed and issue a statement of findings. You may well find that it is a tiny vocal minority that are unhappy, but who knows.

[Ozyhibby]

It just occurred to me that another cost the club will now be taking on is the admin of away tickets. When I go to away games I usually pay at the gate. Now that loyalty points are on offer, I'll buy from Hibs and get them to post to me. The admin cost for that transaction has moved from the away team to Hibs. Hibs get no money for selling away tickets.


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[B.H.F.C]

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What you would like is an Away Supporters Only Loyalty Scheme..... Which has NO financial benefit to OUR club but plenty benefit to all other clubs. That makes no sense.

It's not about financial benefit to the club. If it was they'd never have introduced it. It's about rewarding their most loyal supporters with the opportunity to have first dibs on tickets when their is a limited supply.

Typical of football these days that everything comes back to finance. What about the benefit of the support the players get from committed people who stand in the pouring rain at pishy we places like Alloa on a Saturday afternoon in December or whatever?