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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Cannon fodder for the British Army

    Would you let your Son/Daughter be recruited at School?

    https://t.co/vb4tHppAIB


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  3. #2
    No issue with it, we had the recruitment guys come in to our school, i done my work experience with the army then when i was 17 i joined, didnt do me any harm

  4. #3
    Scottish Cup Victory - Witness 2016 Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Given the amount of casualties suffered by our armed forces in recent years with many brave young men losing their lives, I would do everything I could to discourage any child of mine from joining up. Thankfully my 21 year old son never went on that career path.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
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  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Hibs Class's Avatar
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    Yes, I would too. I'd also explain to them the history of the cannon fodder comparison and why it's a somewhat tired, lazy, predictable utterance.
    ​#PERSEVERED


  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Would you let your Son/Daughter be recruited at School?

    https://t.co/vb4tHppAIB
    Absolutely not. In fact I would go to the school personally to protest

  7. #6
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    The army can be a good career option there is some good training going in technical jobs as well.

  8. #7
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Like it or not but the fact is we need an army and unfortunately probably always will. Anyone who has a gripe with military personnel should take their problems to those that control them.

    As for the risks involved in joining the military there are many more jobs out there that are just as risky.

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    Not sure it's appropriate in schools. By all means join the cadets, but shouldn't be linked to schools.

    J

  10. #9
    Does the NHS or departments from the Civil Service or local businesses get to go into schools and pitch to potential employees?

    If so then there's no reason why the armed forces should be excluded, if it's just the army etc getting to do this then it leaves me a bit uncomfortable tbh. Sure it can offer people a decent career in a diverse range of jobs but then being a plumber can be a decent career and I bet Smith & Sons aren't getting time in classrooms to offer apprenticeships.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  11. #10
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    I don't see a problem - if other employers can go into schools to make presentations, why prevent the armed forces from doing so? There are very good careers available and 'cannon fodder' isn't exactly applicable in the present day. What does need to be thought of is provision for those who experience problems either from combat-related stress disorders, or from problems adjusting to civvie street after retirement from the services. This is slowly improving (I think!) but needs a lot more done. I don't think the British armed services are particularly bad at this; I don't think any armed forces give it anything like enough thought or consideration.

    Mind you, there aren't a lot of employers who provide really effective adjustment counselling (or even advice) to people facing retirement or redundancy. Most of them, it's a case of 'pay them the money and get them out of here'.


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  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member AndyM_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Would you let your Son/Daughter be recruited at School?

    https://t.co/vb4tHppAIB
    No I wouldn't as I think its a decision for an adult and my kid is only 5 although when she turns 18 there's not much I can do about it.

    My Dad served in the Army and got his initial trade there. He spent most of his 6 years fixing trucks and did very little in the way of soldiering. But he loved it.

    After University I had 2 options due to the state of the economy (John Major's Tories were in and the graduate job market had collapsed) I either go back to University and do an MSc or having passed the physical and academic tests, accept an offer to join the Royal Marines Officer Training. Me joining the Marines would have broken my mum's heart and so I went back to University.
    Last edited by AndyM_1875; 18-01-2016 at 01:10 PM.

  13. #12
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
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    I don't think what is being proposed would actually amount to recruiting people at school. However, as has been said already on this thread, the armed forces should be allowed the same opportunity as other potential employers to advertise themselves to the younger generation; no more, no less.

    As an aside, I have started to worry about the SNP recently. The "cannon fodder" reference is hyperbolic nonsense and the Wolfe comment is yet another example of the SNP's apparent need to paint everything as an attack of Scotland, even when it is plainly not the case.

  14. #13
    Testimonial Due Stranraer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Would you let your Son/Daughter be recruited at School?

    https://t.co/vb4tHppAIB
    No. If they wanted to tell my son to recruit I'd tell them where to go. Also, if they insist on bothering our children let them go to the finest schools in the West of London and see how many posh kids get signed up.

  15. #14
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stranraer_Hibee View Post
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    No. If they wanted to tell my son to recruit I'd tell them where to go. Also, if they insist on bothering our children let them go to the finest schools in the West of London and see how many posh kids get signed up.
    You'd be surprised at how many posh kids do sign up.

  16. #15
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Why don't we just scrap the armed forces entirely, and then no one will need to be recruited ANYWHERE?


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    Why don't we just scrap the armed forces entirely, and then no one will need to be recruited ANYWHERE?
    But to save jobs we could still build the warplanes and put no missiles or pilots in them and build all the tanks but have no shells or tank drivers in them then guns with no bullets and have no one to fire them. Quite why someone hasn't thought of that already I have no idea....

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    The Armed Forces are a great avenue to learn a trade that will serve as a pathway into a post-service career.

    Of course there are risks joining the military but there are risks joining the police force, fire service, steel production...hell, even teachers are increasingly subject to violence in their workplace in the form of unruly pupils these days. Granted, with growing international risks in the form of Daesh, expanding acts of terrorism and growing economic instability, the likelihood of operational combat arguably increases so I can understand parents being wary.

    What might put me off would be the possible long-term emotional/mental health consequences that many soldiers experience on return to civilian life. The military and government need to be doing more to take care of combat veterans who are forced to serve on the front lines of these hostile environments and see the evils of war up close.

    As for them recruiting in schools, I see no harm in it. Nearly all types of company recruit in schools and precluding our armed forces from doing just that would be the worst example of cotton-wool wrapping of children. They offer much, much more than bullets and bloodshed and for those children who perhaps aren't academically gifted, they offer a secure job and opportunity to learn a trade that doesn't require a University pathway.

  19. #18
    Testimonial Due CB_NO3's Avatar
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    A life in The British Army, posh folk, telling thick folk to kill poor folk.

  20. #19
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB_NO3 View Post
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    A life in The British Army, posh folk, telling thick folk to kill poor folk.
    Garbage.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CB_NO3 View Post
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    A life in The British Army, posh folk, telling thick folk to kill poor folk.
    What a load of rubbish

  22. #21
    Testimonial Due CB_NO3's Avatar
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    It was a bit tongue and cheek lads. I know they do a lot of good aid work in Africa and so on but their main objective is to look after their masters (politicians and bankers) overseas assets.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member HiBremian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Like it or not but the fact is we need an army and unfortunately probably always will. Anyone who has a gripe with military personnel should take their problems to those that control them.

    As for the risks involved in joining the military there are many more jobs out there that are just as risky.
    Don't Costa Rica manage without an army, Paul? Didn't do them any harm (World Cup v Scotland, Last WC quarter final :-) )


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  24. #23
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomheartfather View Post
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    Don't Costa Rica manage without an army, Paul? Didn't do them any harm (World Cup v Scotland, Last WC quarter final :-) )


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    If that works for them Richard then great and I wish it would work world wide but it wouldn't work for the UK due to our historical "interests" overseas. Now an independent Scotland might be different but then again historically if Scotland didn't have the ability to defend itself then there wouldn't be a Scotland.

  25. #24
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    Armed forces are the military wing of our foreign and defence policy. Our foreign policy is highly questionable, for much of the postwar period. Iraq was an illegal war with widespread abuses taking place. Our role was to assist the Americans and we played the part willingly. We are not the universal good guys. We have an expansionist and interventionist foreign and defence policy. The circumstances that created ISIS - our current enemy - were largely of our own making for decades of failure in Iraq. So we are simply handling the fall out from our foolish intervention there.

    I don't have much time for the adulation of the military that is pretty common. The dummy spitting about "cannon fodder" is just a way of keeping our 'brave' troops (and their masters in the MoD) immune from criticism. They defend apparently our democracy (or 5-yearly narrow illusory choice over who will best stick up for the perpetuation of the established order). However, it is a job - a public service job - with opportunities, benefits and drawbacks like any other job. Only difference is that you put your life on the line and mortgage your future. As I see it, anyone who signs up must know that in advance and be willing to take the terms and conditions accordingly - simple as that. If they don't know or don't realise the full implication, then they've made a mistake. No one forces people into this career choice. When you read about young people killed in service, I don't feel like I owe them a debt of gratitude that they signed up for this career choice or that I sleep safer for their sacrifice. At the moment, quite the opposite. There are killers in our midsts precisely because of the UKs actions over the past decade. My main feeling is that I am sorry for them and their families and friends and sorry for a young life cut short and all the potential moments life offers that will never be fulfilled. However, if you sign up given the direction our foreign policy has demonstrably taken over at least the last 20 years, then you should fully expect to find yourself in the firing line. Ultimately, that's what people signing up are trading off for opportunities, pay, conditions and skills.

    Cannon fodder is a bit strong, but pawns in a questionable foreign policy might be more accurate.
    Last edited by steakbake; 20-01-2016 at 05:16 AM.

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by CB_NO3 View Post
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    A life in The British Army, posh folk, telling thick folk to kill poor folk.
    Their recruitment advert on the radio a couple years ago aimed at people who ' liked playing football at school' says it all really.

  27. #26
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stranraer_Hibee View Post
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    No. If they wanted to tell my son to recruit I'd tell them where to go. Also, if they insist on bothering our children let them go to the finest schools in the West of London and see how many posh kids get signed up.


    What a horrible inference to make showing absolutely no understanding of the make-up of the Army.

  28. #27
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    I don't see a problem. It's a career within which they can learn lots of different skills.

    Just as long as there's no trying to airbrush the fact that you could get killed or be ordered to kill.

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member HiBremian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    Armed forces are the military wing of our foreign and defence policy. Our foreign policy is highly questionable, for much of the postwar period. Iraq was an illegal war with widespread abuses taking place. Our role was to assist the Americans and we played the part willingly. We are not the universal good guys. We have an expansionist and interventionist foreign and defence policy. The circumstances that created ISIS - our current enemy - were largely of our own making for decades of failure in Iraq. So we are simply handling the fall out from our foolish intervention there.

    I don't have much time for the adulation of the military that is pretty common. The dummy spitting about "cannon fodder" is just a way of keeping our 'brave' troops (and their masters in the MoD) immune from criticism. They defend apparently our democracy (or 5-yearly narrow illusory choice over who will best stick up for the perpetuation of the established order). However, it is a job - a public service job - with opportunities, benefits and drawbacks like any other job. Only difference is that you put your life on the line and mortgage your future. As I see it, anyone who signs up must know that in advance and be willing to take the terms and conditions accordingly - simple as that. If they don't know or don't realise the full implication, then they've made a mistake. No one forces people into this career choice. When you read about young people killed in service, I don't feel like I owe them a debt of gratitude that they signed up for this career choice or that I sleep safer for their sacrifice. At the moment, quite the opposite. There are killers in our midsts precisely because of the UKs actions over the past decade. My main feeling is that I am sorry for them and their families and friends and sorry for a young life cut short and all the potential moments life offers that will never be fulfilled. However, if you sign up given the direction our foreign policy has demonstrably taken over at least the last 20 years, then you should fully expect to find yourself in the firing line. Ultimately, that's what people signing up are trading off for opportunities, pay, conditions and skills.

    Cannon fodder is a bit strong, but pawns in a questionable foreign policy might be more accurate.
    Great post, SB. The purpose of the British military has been, and is, highly questionable. Its lofty place in UK society is maintained largely by propaganda, british national patriotism and "tradition". But as you say, it is also a public service job to which many good people have been drawn. The role of a military - not just the British military - can in theory be positive if properly led. "Peace-keeping" is an honourable career, and I'm sure there are plenty recruits attracted by that idea. But I suspect the violence and agression attracts others. One thing I remember well when teaching police cadets way back in Durham - a mix of types recruited, but including a small group of Geordie thugs who simply swapped sides for their fortnightly fist fight at St James Park.


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  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    It seems the Military are looking at the most deprived areas of Scotland for their new recruits.

    https://stv.tv/news/features/1401829-army-draft/

    Scottish Government agency Education Scotland confirmed the MoD had asked for statistics on the deprivation rates in schools in 2015.

  31. #30
    Old enough to know better. Stupid enough to do it anyway. Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    It seems the Military are looking at the most deprived areas of Scotland for their new recruits.

    https://stv.tv/news/features/1401829-army-draft/

    Scottish Government agency Education Scotland confirmed the MoD had asked for statistics on the deprivation rates in schools in 2015.
    Is that anymore cynical than the SNP looking to lower the age to vote to 16 in 2014?

    Organisations use statistics to improve their performance. They wouldn't be doing their jobs properly if they didn't follow up on proven patterns that might help them achieve their goals.

    Doesn't make it right of course but that kind of judgment is entirely subjective.

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