The way things are going by the end of the decade chances are the 51% will have been reached, but that leaves a few big questions:
How will the club be run when you will have lets say STF with 44% of the club, HSL with 35%, individual shareholders with 16% and Rod Petrie with 5%
At the moment the one big advantage we have is STF has and will at least guarantee, if not cover, the clubs losses, but will he or the Farmer family continue in this altruistic fashion when they no longer have overall control of the club. In the longer term will STF's heirs even want to continue to be owners of less than 50% of a football club, and if not what will they do with their shares? ..... sell them? ..... gift them to HSL? .... put them in trust? ... what?
Then there is the matter of being able to finance a fan owned club to the extent that it isn't just treading water .... We do not have the huge fan base of a big German fan owned club to tap into and we are unlikely to be able to persuade a big company or rich individual to take over the whole of the 49% who will be willing to pump money into the club but have no overall control of it.
The aims for Hibernian FC going forward must be as follows:
To put a team on the park, with a top notch coaching and medical staff behind them, capable of being consistently in the top 4 in the league, winning cups, getting to the group stages of the Europa league, pumping the Yams 9 times out of 10 and perhaps one day even winning the premier league.
Having the finances to ensure that the infrastructure we own I.E. the stadium and training complex are maintained to the highest standard, without being a drain on our on field ambitions.
Finishing the stadium .... As things stand the stadium is perfectly acceptable and kicks the ass of anything outside of Glasgow and many other clubs in the UK. But to my mind it will not be all it can, and should, be until all 4 stands are joined up and the corners filled in, I am not talking about increasing capacity. This is obviously a low priority in relation to the two main aims above, but if we are to truly be a club with ambition turning Easter Road from an excellent stadium into a truly fantastic one should never be off the agenda.
Anyway ... I reckon we probably have a good 3 to 5 years to think about how we will go about all of this, but unless we want to get caught with our pants down the time to begin that process is now.
Thoughts.
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Thread: When we reach 51% fan ownership
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08-01-2016 01:47 PM #1
When we reach 51% fan ownership
Last edited by NAE NOOKIE; 08-01-2016 at 01:59 PM.
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08-01-2016 02:29 PM #2
Of course, this is the big question.
STF unwinding his involvement in Hibs. I think the £5m loan is the final settlement on his financial support for the club. Once that is paid off, and fan ownership reaches 51%, he will have a minority share holding and Hibs will be expected to be financially self sufficient.
I assume he already has ideas for what happens after that, but we haven't been told. If the Farmer family wanted to retain their 49% stake for the long term, you might have thought that another family member would have stepped up into a role with the club by now.
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08-01-2016 02:35 PM #3
All good questions. One thing is for sure, the status quo is not an option. STF is unwinding his position and we will have to be self sufficient going forward.
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08-01-2016 02:36 PM #4
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I think we will be in a good place in relation to our debt and the assets we hold but we are going to have less leeway in future to borrow cheaply if we do have periods of sustained losses.
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08-01-2016 03:20 PM #5
End of the decade isn't that far away - getting to grips with things should really start now.
And first off is getting to grips with HSL I'd say. If we don't control that then we don't control the club and yet I am pretty clueless how HSL is run. The FAQs say that the Founding Directors resign and elections start in 2018 but doesn't (as yet anyway) elaborate. It would be good if fans could be involved in fleshing out the details and I'm sure input would be welcome - they do intend to be democratic after all. In fact, it is quite possible that consultation has been going on without me noticing.
I'm guessing that I'm not a proper member until my contributions total £225 but what happens then? You'd figure there would be a way of agreeing policy and representatives/directors but how exactly? The following excerpt from their FAQs will need to be amplified IMO -
"The Directors will start a process of consultation when there are sufficient members to determine the form and method of taking members wishes to the Board of HFC. When we achieve 20% of the shares we will have a Director on the Board and therefore direct access."
Anyway - it's been a good start.
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08-01-2016 04:00 PM #6
I would like to think that people would keep the direct debits going to fund the club further.
United we stand here....
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08-01-2016 04:05 PM #7
An interesting debate for sure.
I think by the end of the decade Sir Tom Farmer would be ready to take his leave, whether his family wished to remain involved I have no idea.
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08-01-2016 04:15 PM #8
In the last 3-5 years STF hasn't covered our losses as such. Loans from the holding company have and they are now being repaid as part of the remaining £5m. This isn't intended as a criticism of Farmer at all - I'm sure he's well out of pocket over his entire term. But arguably the club have been self sufficient for a while now, albeit with his financial clout there as a contingency.
Theres no reason Hibs cannot operate within our means successfully in the future. Good leadership is required and we are currently well placed with Leanne Dempster. But I do agree the running of HSL becomes a concern as their shareholding grows. A nice problem all the same
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08-01-2016 04:24 PM #9
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If HSL have 51% doesn't it end them as an organisation?
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08-01-2016 04:54 PM #10This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Anyway, if you are actually trying to make this thread as interesting as the sevco one I think you are on a losing wicket.
For anyone who is confused, fans will have shares in HSL and HSL will have shares in the club (but not 51% I hasten to add). So, it just can't end - and nor, can it float off to the South of France for a holiday!
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08-01-2016 04:59 PM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote"There's class, there's first class and there's Hibs class" - Eddie Turnbull
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08-01-2016 05:00 PM #12
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08-01-2016 05:05 PM #13
HSL belongs to the members and its up to the members to shape it going forward. In 2018 we have the chance to nominate and vote for a new board when the existing board either step down or put themselves up for reelection. Hopefully by that time we will have a much bigger membership that reflects the Hibs support.
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08-01-2016 05:06 PM #14
Without the safety net of STF's backing the club will have no choice but to live within its means. Presumably the alternative would be for shareholders to pick up the tab.
Who would be up for stumping up ??p per share to get the club out of trouble?
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08-01-2016 05:10 PM #15This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-01-2016 05:47 PM #16This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-01-2016 05:56 PM #17
STF and Petrie won't own any of the club as I'll have bought them out within a couple of years.
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08-01-2016 06:00 PM #18This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
btw has anyone had any dealing with HSL or know what they are up to? I see they have a contact email on their website - I wonder if it would be too presumptuous just to ask?
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08-01-2016 06:06 PM #19
As Ozyhibby says, HSL will develop as the years go on and as it gets stronger, will have a bigger say. STF will still have a major stake in the club, and as has been discussed before I would not be surprised if he has a plan in place when the time comes to leave Hibs in a strong position.
Even when HSL have our 51% the club will/should be run along the same lines as present with a strong CEO and board. With the right people in charge a good Hibs team playing in the premiership should be able to live within their means and stay within budget.
Once the 51% is reached I would like to think most of the HSL members currently paying with DD will continue the DD’s. Whether this is to continue funding extra budget for players or possibly eventually filters some of this into an emergency type fund in case we did get into deep doo doo.TOP CASH BACK
The easy way to make money
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08-01-2016 06:18 PM #20
I'm a HSL member what happens to my membership when I'm dead can I pass it on to my family sorry for being so gloomy
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08-01-2016 06:23 PM #21This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
United we stand here....
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08-01-2016 06:23 PM #22This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-01-2016 06:23 PM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-01-2016 06:25 PM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-01-2016 06:39 PM #25
More questions than answers. Maybe STF and his minion need to spell this out clearly in order to remove any ambiguity that might prevent even more folk from getting onboard. Namely what happens when the magic number is realised? Or is it too much to ask?
There is so much supporter goodwill for this club and I am quite touched that fans have been able to progress the ownership thing so quickly, despite the fact that we have not been publicly placed under threat and th fact that the club has been chronically mismanaged for so many years.
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08-01-2016 06:45 PM #26This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The corners between the East and South and West and FF I would simply fill in as they have done at Ibrox with large TV screens included.
The corner between the South and West I would fill with something like a building containing office space, or perhaps even hospitality areas for exclusive use of away fans .... this corner would also have a tunnel large enough to get construction vehicles, ambulances etc into the stadium.
The space between the FF and the East is the biggie and the skies the limit here, its huge.
If you want the club to make money from it you could build a sizeable hotel with parking space underneath it. I doubt there is a city in the UK better able to make a hotel viable than Edinburgh.
If money was no object I would build in that space in consultation with the Hibs supporters association and HSL with a view to both bodies being based in the building, the finished building would be gifted to them as their property, so that their independence from the club ( especially in the case of the HSA ) would not be compromised.
In the finished stadium at all corners the sides of the new building would form the end walls of each stand, replacing the current Perspex and giving the ground a far more intimate feel and atmosphere. The roofs of the FF and South would also be extended to reach the roofs of the East and West. In fact just for good measure I would extend the roof of the East by a few metres too.
What a stadium that would be, the whole lot shouldn't cost any more than 15 million quidLast edited by NAE NOOKIE; 08-01-2016 at 06:58 PM.
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08-01-2016 06:50 PM #27This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Technically when the the combined fans groups get to 51% they can move to replace the chairman of they so wish (I think).
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08-01-2016 06:52 PM #28This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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08-01-2016 06:53 PM #29This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote"There's class, there's first class and there's Hibs class" - Eddie Turnbull
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08-01-2016 07:14 PM #30
Not seen it mentioned anywhere but the scots govt have a consultation on supported involvement football https://consult.scotland.gov.uk/acti...tation%202.pdf
Just about to close I think but sounds like it may be relevant to this discussion
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