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  1. #121
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Who would you see Scotland being independent under?
    It would be the Krankies for me. Scotland would be Fandabbydozy. Let's make it happen.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.


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  3. #122
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Who would you see Scotland being independent under?
    If a right of centre party was to come along and campaign for Scottish independence, I would be interested in hearing more about their aims and objectives. The concept of Scotland being independent is not something I am totally against.

    I am aware that is not currently an option, though, and that the SNP is the only party that is likely to lead Scotland into independence. Therefore, for the time being, I'm not interested.

  4. #123
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trig View Post
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    If a right of centre party was to come along and campaign for Scottish independence, I would be interested in hearing more about their aims and objectives. The concept of Scotland being independent is not something I am totally against.

    I am aware that is not currently an option, though, and that the SNP is the only party that is likely to lead Scotland into independence. Therefore, for the time being, I'm not interested.
    Cheers Mrs Thatcher


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  5. #124
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trig View Post
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    If a right of centre party was to come along and campaign for Scottish independence, I would be interested in hearing more about their aims and objectives. The concept of Scotland being independent is not something I am totally against.

    I am aware that is not currently an option, though, and that the SNP is the only party that is likely to lead Scotland into independence. Therefore, for the time being, I'm not interested.
    The Scottish Libertarians that launched last week might be your thing. They seem a bit bonkers to me though.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  6. #125
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trig View Post
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    I'm able to think for myself thanks very much.

    I can actually see some merit in Scotland being independent (although not under the leadership of the SNP) but it's comments like this one which makes me even happier that I voted "no" last year.

    55% of the Scottish public voted "no". Are all these people brain-dead morons, who need to read the tabloids and watch Sky News to have their minds made up for them?
    They're not brain dead morons! Some of them were elderly people who have worked hard all their lives, but were fearful that they might lose out on their pensions. Most people will rightly vote for what's right for them and my dad was worried by what he saw and read, so he voted no. He's not brain dead or a moron, but he swallowed enough of the lies to convince him to vote no. Project fear worked on him and probably many others.

    United we stand here....

  7. #126
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Cheers Mrs Thatcher
    Precisely why I hardly bother with the Holy Ground board any more.

  8. #127
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    They're not brain dead morons! Some of them were elderly people who have worked hard all their lives, but were fearful that they might lose out on their pensions. Most people will rightly vote for what's right for them and my dad was worried by what he saw and read, so he voted no. He's not brain dead or a moron, but he swallowed enough of the lies to convince him to vote no. Project fear worked on him and probably many others.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  9. #128
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trig View Post
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    If a right of centre party was to come along and campaign for Scottish independence, I would be interested in hearing more about their aims and objectives. The concept of Scotland being independent is not something I am totally against.

    I am aware that is not currently an option, though, and that the SNP is the only party that is likely to lead Scotland into independence. Therefore, for the time being, I'm not interested.
    I think in an independent Scotland the Tory party would be quite a strong force. It wasn't that long ago that the tories had a majority in Scotland. The problem they now face is the toxic link with the English party and the thatcher years.

    United we stand here....

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trig View Post
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    Precisely why I hardly bother with the Holy Ground board any more.
    Your choice. Don't take it personally mate, you're entitled to your right of centre ground, just like us separatists are eh


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  11. #130
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Your choice. Don't take it personally mate, you're entitled to your right of centre ground, just like us separatists are eh
    Is this how you are winning people round when you are going door to door?
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  12. #131
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Is this how you are winning people round when you are going door to door?
    I always take the left hand side of the road


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  13. #132
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Your choice. Don't take it personally mate, you're entitled to your right of centre ground, just like us separatists are eh
    I just can't be arsed with the usual response I get on here whenever I try to have a reasonable discussion with others about serious matters. You asked me a question and I gave you an honest answer and all I get in reply is some nonsense about Margaret Thatcher, along with some childish smileys.

    My opinion is normally in the minority on here and it normally just gets dismissed and ridiculed.

    Don't worry, you're not the only one, at least you haven't accused me of being an extremist.

  14. #133
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trig View Post
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    I just can't be arsed with the usual response I get on here whenever I try to have a reasonable discussion with others about serious matters. You asked me a question and I gave you an honest answer and all I get in reply is some nonsense about Margaret Thatcher, along with some childish smileys.

    My opinion is normally in the minority on here and it normally just gets dismissed and ridiculed.

    Don't worry, you're not the only one, at least you haven't accused me of being an extremist.
    As I've said, you're entitled to your right of centre ground, but don't expect others to follow you just because you think it's right(1st smiley)

    I'm sure you're as hard skinned as other Hibees on here, so don't let the comments get you down. Sometimes life goes the other way, and it's all sweetness and light( 2nd smiley)

    Scotland wouldn't be the same if we couldn't take the piss out of the Tories. (3rd smiley) Tartan or otherwise


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  15. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    You lost the vote because you couldn't persuade people of your argument.

    It's a comfort zone to blame media influence but unfortunately it sends out a bad message. It implies you think the electorate you need to win over is weak-minded and malleable. If that's what you think of the Scottish people (and it showed in the aftermath) they're going to keep rejecting your dogmatic, fundamentalist schtick.

    Posts like yours simply encourage people to continue being in the No camp.
    Pish, it was fair game to scare our ever ageing population that their pensions would decline given a Yes vote ? Both from the media and the Better Together campaign. Posts like yours only confirm what most of us already know.

  16. #135
    Coaching Staff JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Pish, it was fair game to scare our ever ageing population that their pensions would decline given a Yes vote ? Both from the media and the Better Together campaign. Posts like yours only confirm what most of us already know.
    Couldn't agree more to say the coverage was in any way balanced is laughable. The establishment closed ranks and the propaganda machine was full blast especially from outlets like BBC. Frankly the level of misinformation in some of the press would have done Pravda and Goebbells proud. No one is saying that voters are weak or thick or malleable however if the same message is repeated over and over again it will IMO have an influence and did have a significant influence.

  17. #136
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    You lost the vote because you couldn't persuade people of your argument.

    It's a comfort zone to blame media influence but unfortunately it sends out a bad message. It implies you think the electorate you need to win over is weak-minded and malleable. If that's what you think of the Scottish people (and it showed in the aftermath) they're going to keep rejecting your dogmatic, fundamentalist schtick.

    Posts like yours simply encourage people to continue being in the No camp.
    Lots of people will continue to be in the No camp, as they want to be in it. Some of them are Orange Order, Britain First, Ukip, etc. Others are dyed in the wool Unionist, with some others just happy to go along with the status quo.

    However some of the 55% will see the light, (and they are doing), and when they do, we'll have our Independence, and not a Nationalist in sight

    Just People who hold their hopes in their own hands.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  18. #137
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Lots of people will continue to be in the No camp, as they want to be in it. Some of them are Orange Order, Britain First, Ukip, etc. Others are dyed in the wool Unionist, with some others just happy to go along with the status quo.

    However some of the 55% will see the light, (and they are doing), and when they do, we'll have our Independence, and not a Nationalist in sight

    Just People who hold their hopes in their own hands.
    How is your first paragraph helpful? Some Independence supporters are Orange Order, Britain First, UKIP sympathising English hating Nationalists with a capital N.
    I think we can and will be an Independent nation within 10 years but not if all we can do is get those who voted No's backs up.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  19. #138
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Pish, it was fair game to scare our ever ageing population that their pensions would decline given a Yes vote ? Both from the media and the Better Together campaign. Posts like yours only confirm what most of us already know.
    55% clearly didn't
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  20. #139
    I only want to say the Scottish Cup is in the bag... Sir David Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Lots of people will continue to be in the No camp, as they want to be in it. Some of them are Orange Order, Britain First, Ukip, etc. Others are dyed in the wool Unionist, with some others just happy to go along with the status quo.

    However some of the 55% will see the light, (and they are doing), and when they do, we'll have our Independence, and not a Nationalist in sight

    Just People who hold their hopes in their own hands.
    Keep this sort of stuff up and I reckon the "no" vote will be 60% next time.

  21. #140
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Lots of people will continue to be in the No camp, as they want to be in it. Some of them are Orange Order, Britain First, Ukip, etc. Others are dyed in the wool Unionist, with some others just happy to go along with the status quo.

    However some of the 55% will see the light, (and they are doing), and when they do, we'll have our Independence, and not a Nationalist in sight

    Just People who hold their hopes in their own hands.
    Regardless of my views, you're never going to win anyone round with that approach!

    The world isn't black and white and neither are people's views.

    Start trying to persuade people rather than alienate them!
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  22. #141
    @hibs.net private member Benny Brazil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    Couldn't agree more to say the coverage was in any way balanced is laughable. The establishment closed ranks and the propaganda machine was full blast especially from outlets like BBC. Frankly the level of misinformation in some of the press would have done Pravda and Goebbells proud. No one is saying that voters are weak or thick or malleable however if the same message is repeated over and over again it will IMO have an influence and did have a significant influence.
    Sorry dont usually get involved in political threads on here - but almost all Yes supporters I have spoken to or read posts from on other social media are saying exactly that about No voters.
    People I used to be friendly with accused me of being "weak, gullable, a coward, lacking backbone" etc etc all because I voted No. The SNP never managed to convince me that a Yes vote would make Scotland a better place to live - they never managed to convince me that our country could prosper financially as an independent country, they were hardly convincing when it came the economy. And I would dare to say that this is the probably the main reason why many people voted No not because of any media bias or fear campaign - why do Yes voters try to make out that it was only the No voters who were ill informed and didnt bother to read about or research into the key issues.

    For what its worth like Trig I am not wholly against the idea of independence - but I struggle with the idea that the SNP could run the country - they are not exactly setting the heather on fire just now. They are fortunate that their rival parties in Scotland are not much better. Oh for a John Smith or a Donald Dewar.
    Its sad to see that so many Yes voters are driving a wedge between people in Scotland. All this crap with the I voted Yes and I am one of the proud 45 etc etc does nothing to help.

  23. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    55% clearly didn't
    Lol touche.

  24. #143
    @hibs.net private member Benny Brazil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Lots of people will continue to be in the No camp, as they want to be in it. Some of them are Orange Order, Britain First, Ukip, etc. Others are dyed in the wool Unionist, with some others just happy to go along with the status quo.

    However some of the 55% will see the light, (and they are doing), and when they do, we'll have our Independence, and not a Nationalist in sight

    Just People who hold their hopes in their own hands.
    Condescending clap trap.

  25. #144
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    How is your first paragraph helpful? Some Independence supporters are Orange Order, Britain First, UKIP sympathising English hating Nationalists with a capital N.
    I think we can and will be an Independent nation within 10 years but not if all we can do is get those who voted No's backs up.
    It's not meant to be helpful, it's just factual. I won't change them nor will you. I'm working on others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trig View Post
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    Keep this sort of stuff up and I reckon the "no" vote will be 60% next time.
    Want a bet

    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Regardless of my views, you're never going to win anyone round with that approach!

    The world isn't black and white and neither are people's views.

    Start trying to persuade people rather than alienate them!
    Sometimes you need several approaches. I'll wait on Purdah, at the next Independence referendum The VOW2


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  26. #145
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    It's not meant to be helpful, it's just factual. I won't change them nor will you. I'm working on others.



    Want a bet



    Sometimes you need several approaches. I'll wait on Purdah, at the next Independence referendum The VOW2
    No real answer to three different posters

    Give us a detailed account of your case for why independence is right and right now. Not other people's words, your own.
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  27. #146
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Brazil View Post
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    Condescending clap trap.
    Thanks


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  28. #147
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    No real answer to three different posters

    Give us a detailed account of your case for why independence is right and right now. Not other people's words, your own.
    Not "Your" real answers, or the ones you want. The Orange Order, Britain First, and Ukip wanted to stay in the Union did they not?


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  29. #148
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Not "Your" real answers, or the ones you want. The Orange Order, Britain First, and Ukip wanted to stay in the Union did they not?
    That's your detailed account for why independence is right?

    Really?
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  30. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Brazil View Post
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    Sorry dont usually get involved in political threads on here - but almost all Yes supporters I have spoken to or read posts from on other social media are saying exactly that about No voters.
    People I used to be friendly with accused me of being "weak, gullable, a coward, lacking backbone" etc etc all because I voted No. The SNP never managed to convince me that a Yes vote would make Scotland a better place to live - they never managed to convince me that our country could prosper financially as an independent country, they were hardly convincing when it came the economy. And I would dare to say that this is the probably the main reason why many people voted No not because of any media bias or fear campaign - why do Yes voters try to make out that it was only the No voters who were ill informed and didnt bother to read about or research into the key issues.

    For what its worth like Trig I am not wholly against the idea of independence - but I struggle with the idea that the SNP could run the country - they are not exactly setting the heather on fire just now. They are fortunate that their rival parties in Scotland are not much better. Oh for a John Smith or a Donald Dewar.
    Its sad to see that so many Yes voters are driving a wedge between people in Scotland. All this crap with the I voted Yes and I am one of the proud 45 etc etc does nothing to help.
    You've lost friends because of the vote ?
    For better or worse there are no rival parties in Scotland, most of which are there undoing and not anything to do with the popularity of the SNP. No fortune involved. There's always gonna be complaints but the current Scottish government have performed as well as previous incumbents at worst.
    As for your last paragraph, I said it before, cuts both ways regarding the rhetoric of both sides.

  31. #150
    @hibs.net private member Benny Brazil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    You've lost friends because of the vote ?
    For better or worse there are no rival parties in Scotland, most of which are there undoing and not anything to do with the popularity of the SNP. No fortune involved. There's always gonna be complaints but the current Scottish government have performed as well as previous incumbents at worst.
    As for your last paragraph, I said it before, cuts both ways regarding the rhetoric of both sides.
    Lost is probably not the right word - but after being described constantly in the aftermath of the vote some of the descriptions I used above then its fair to say I dont view them as friends anymore.
    Of course it cuts both ways but I dont see too many No voters celebrating the fact they voted No.

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