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  1. #31
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    No need for all of this ..... Erm...... debate.
    The answer is 42.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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    He'll die before he's sold.


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    No need for all of this ..... Erm...... debate.
    The answer is 42.
    I predict this thread will wither on the vine, and the only 1 reason we're better together is the oil price has dropped.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  4. #33
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I predict this thread will wither on the vine, and the only 1 reason we're better together is the oil price has dropped.
    Nope. We are Better Together for the foreseeable future because 55% of our fellow Scots decided we are. As Yes supporters we shouldn't be asking why we are better together. It's just a way of laying the blame for any bad news at the feet of those who voted no and it will achieve nothing. We should be concentrating on telling people why we would be better as an independent Scotland. We lost the vote because we spent too much time talking to ourselves and we are still doing it. It's frustrating as hell. Until we accept that we lost not because people voted the 'wrong' way but because the Yes campaign was flawed we will still be years away from going it alone.
    Rant over.
    Last edited by marinello59; 15-11-2015 at 09:08 PM.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I predict this thread will wither on the vine, and the only 1 reason we're better together is the oil price has dropped.
    Maybe it's not all about economics and policies on this or that, maybe because it is just what many believe. Can't argue with that (although I am sure you will manage)

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Still waiting for an example though.
    Thousands of employees in edinburgh's financial services sector still have jobs.

    Likewise Faslane.

    We are still part of one of the highest growth economies in Europe.

    We have the military power to aid our allies France in their time of need.


    I actually voted yes in the referendum, but i accept that we as a country didn't.

    Also, are you really suggesting that there are no advantages to remaining in the UK?

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Nope. We are Better Together for the foreseeable future because 55% of our fellow Scots decided we are. As Yes supporters we shouldn't be asking why we are better together. It's just a of laying the blame for any bad news at the feet of those who voted no and it will achieve nothing. We should be concentrating on telling people why we would be better as an independent Scotland. We lost the vote because we spent too much time talking to ourselves and we are still doing it. It's frustrating as hell. Until we accept that we lost not because people voted the 'wrong' way but because the Yes campaign was flawed we will still be years away from going it alone.
    Rant over.
    Spot on mate.

  8. #37
    Coaching Staff Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    We have the military power to aid our allies France in their time of need.
    How does that work?

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    How does that work?
    I'm not sure I understand the question?

    Do you mean how does it work that the UK has something to offer France at this time?

  10. #39
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=emerald green;4504964]So if Scotland was an independent country none of these issues would exist in the global economy we live in? The "big broad shoulders" of the UK are not broad enough, but Scotland's on its own are? What do you mean by "to carry the day".

    People are losing their jobs in the industries you mention right across the UK. Thousands in the steel plants in S****horpe as well as in Scotland for example.

    What would work for Scotland and make all these issues simply disappear?[/QUOTE]

    Different economic and social policies wouldn't make these issues disappear but they would certainly help mitigate the catastrophic effect they are having on ordinary people.

  11. #40
    Testimonial Due Treadstone's Avatar
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    Apparently oil is a burden.

  12. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
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    Apparently oil is a burden.
    Apparently an Independent Scotland would have been a basket case because of the drop in oil prices.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Apparently an Independent Scotland would have been a basket case because of the drop in oil prices.

    http://www.cityam.com/224490/scottis...ndent-scotland

    Oil at $47 a barrel will raise less revenue than oil at $114 a barrel. But, and it is an enormous but, if Scotland had voted "yes", the first conversation that Holyrood would have had with George Osborne would have been along the lines of this:

    “Everyone, including Oil & Gas UK, the Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) and the so called independent Office for Budget Responsibility, tell us the future cash flows from the North Sea are negative with oil at less than $50 a barrel. So, how much will Westminster pay us to take over this liability?”
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  14. #43
    Coaching Staff Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I'm not sure I understand the question?

    Do you mean how does it work that the UK has something to offer France at this time?
    I mean, how will the UK use its military power to aid France?

  15. #44
    Testimonial Due Treadstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoneyburn hibs View Post
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    Apparently an Independent Scotland would have been a basket case because of the drop in oil prices.
    UK debt is over a trillion but Scotland would be a 'basket case'. Failing to see the consistency here, can you define ?

  16. #45
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Nope. We are Better Together for the foreseeable future because 55% of our fellow Scots decided we are. As Yes supporters we shouldn't be asking why we are better together. It's just a way of laying the blame for any bad news at the feet of those who voted no and it will achieve nothing. We should be concentrating on telling people why we would be better as an independent Scotland. We lost the vote because we spent too much time talking to ourselves and we are still doing it. It's frustrating as hell. Until we accept that we lost not because people voted the 'wrong' way but because the Yes campaign was flawed we will still be years away from going it alone.
    Rant over.
    Oh such lucidity, clarity and common sense. Shame it'll never catch on with the #areyouyesyet warriors that seem to proliferate all over social media every time Westminster does something they seem to be unsavoury.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    For every £100 raised in revenue from the North Sea oil and the other fields Scotland currently receives way less than a tenner after all the reserved bits and bobs are paid for.

    An independent Scotland would receive £100.

    Tricky one!

  18. #47
    Coaching Staff Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    Oh such lucidity, clarity and common sense. Shame it'll never catch on with the #areyouyesyet warriors that seem to proliferate all over social media every time Westminster does something they seem to be unsavoury.
    Should people not campaign for what they believe in?

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    Should people not campaign for what they believe in?
    There is a difference between campaigning in what you believe in and just pointing out all the perceived 'wrongdoings' and 'injustices' that Westminster or the Torys/Labour/Lib Dems (take your pick) have done since September 2014.

    Read Marinello59's post above, it was much better put that I have done.

  20. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
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    UK debt is over a trillion but Scotland would be a 'basket case'. Failing to see the consistency here, can you define ?
    An even bigger basket case ?

    It's often said that an Independent Scotland would have fallen flat on her face fiscally, given the drop in oil prices.
    Countries of a similar population seem to cope ok without any oil, or a burden of having it.

    I think I was agreeing with you.
    Last edited by stoneyburn hibs; 16-11-2015 at 05:25 PM.

  21. #50
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    There is a difference between campaigning in what you believe in and just pointing out all the perceived 'wrongdoings' and 'injustices' that Westminster or the Torys/Labour/Lib Dems (take your pick) have done since September 2014.

    Read Marinello59's post above, it was much better put that I have done.
    Some can do both


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  22. #51
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    Should people not campaign for what they believe in?
    Earlier I considered replying to the point you have replied to, but it really wasn't even worth it. #rubbishandpointless

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Nope. We are Together for the foreseeable future because 55% of our fellow Scots decided we are. As Yes supporters we shouldn't be asking why we are together. It's just a way of laying the blame for any bad news at the feet of those who voted no and it will achieve nothing. We should be concentrating on telling people why we would be better as an independent Scotland. We lost the vote because we spent too much time talking to ourselves and we are still doing it. It's frustrating as hell. Until we accept that we lost not because people voted the 'wrong' way but because the Yes campaign was flawed we will still be years away from going it alone.
    Rant over.
    Fixed it for you

    You might be speaking to Yes people, others are out chappin doors.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  24. #53
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    We are better together because the case for independence is dead

    “The fact is a gap exists - Scotland does not earn enough to pay for its current level of spending. Once you accept that, you acknowledge that the SNP’s model is broken.”

    I know, I know - more unionist propaganda, except that it comes from Slippery-as-a-Salmond's former head of policy.

    Given that Sturgeon will not commit to an indyref2, I guess she knows the truth of it. Thank goodness that 55% of us saw the truth of it too.

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibs0666 View Post
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    We are better together because the case for independence is dead

    “The fact is a gap exists - Scotland does not earn enough to pay for its current level of spending. Once you accept that, you acknowledge that the SNP’s model is broken.”

    I know, I know - more unionist propaganda, except that it comes from Slippery-as-a-Salmond's former head of policy.

    Given that Sturgeon will not commit to an indyref2, I guess she knows the truth of it. Thank goodness that 55% of us saw the truth of it too.

    “It is reasonable to assume that all these obstacles can be overcome, but it is stupid to deny they exist,” he said.


    He suggested Scotland’s long-serving Finance Secretary John Swinney would be “unfit for the job” if he does not understand these obstacles “so we must assume these bright people know that the old model, once optimistic, is now dead”.
    Well with logic like that...

  26. #55
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibs0666 View Post
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    We are better together because the case for independence is dead

    “The fact is a gap exists - Scotland does not earn enough to pay for its current level of spending. Once you accept that, you acknowledge that the SNP’s model is broken.”

    I know, I know - more unionist propaganda, except that it comes from Slippery-as-a-Salmond's former head of policy.

    Given that Sturgeon will not commit to an indyref2, I guess she knows the truth of it. Thank goodness that 55% of us saw the truth of it too.
    Very surprised to see someone who was tasked with such an important role to secure a Yes vote come out with that. I am sure the usual suspects will be along to discredit him with something or another, instead of actually listening to what he has to say and taking it on as constructive criticism.

  27. #56
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Very surprised to see someone who was tasked with such an important role to secure a Yes vote come out with that. I am sure the usual suspects will be along to discredit him with something or another, instead of actually listening to what he has to say and taking it on as constructive criticism.
    I wouldn't try to discredit him for speaking his mind. However, he ceased to be a Special Adviser to the Scottish Government some time before the referendum. I'm surprised he didn't come out with this earlier.

  28. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    I wouldn't try to discredit him for speaking his mind. However, he ceased to be a Special Adviser to the Scottish Government some time before the referendum. I'm surprised he didn't come out with this earlier.
    Better late than never I suppose.

  29. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Very surprised to see someone who was tasked with such an important role to secure a Yes vote come out with that. I am sure the usual suspects will be along to discredit him with something or another, instead of actually listening to what he has to say and taking it on as constructive criticism.
    Bell left SNP/Yes well before the Indyref and wrote a series of sceptical articles, eg.:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...he-flag-waving

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibs0666 View Post
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    We are better together because the case for independence is dead

    “The fact is a gap exists - Scotland does not earn enough to pay for its current level of spending. Once you accept that, you acknowledge that the SNP’s model is broken.”

    I know, I know - more unionist propaganda, except that it comes from Slippery-as-a-Salmond's former head of policy.

    Given that Sturgeon will not commit to an indyref2, I guess she knows the truth of it. Thank goodness that 55% of us saw the truth of it too.
    The Uk doesn't earn enough to pay for its current level of spending, that's why we're currently a trillion pounds in debt. The current level of Scottish spending includes its share of paying for things like Trident and high speed rail lines that wouldn't exist in an independent Scotland.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  31. #60
    Anyway, in answer to the original question, we are Better Together if:

    - we are "British" and feel primarily attached to the UK as our nation, Scotland just being a region (which we might have a particular regional attachment to and pride in but not as our country). I reckon that accounts for about half of the No vote.

    - we are cautious and don't want to make the jump. Better a safely mediocre Scotland subsumed in the UK than potentially lose your job, financial security. etc

    - we have some personal stake in the British state, eg. ambitious Labour politicians (although how many resounding election defeats that will last for is debateable?)

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