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  1. #31
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    In fact, isn't that the exact same business model that the Hibernian benefactors, McEwan Fraser, adopt?

    If she's done something illegal, then she should be thrown out of the party.

    If only she had stuck to minor offences. Like arson.
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  3. #32
    Coaching Staff The_Todd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    How do you know this? The SNP and the French ambassador have denied anything of the sort was said.
    That may be up for debate, but it was in the memo and the memo was leaked as it was: Carmichael didn't write the memo, he just leaked it And despite all the protestations I do find it hard to believe that given the SNP's core aim and objective that they didn't want a Tory victory. The same goes for the EU referendum, a sizeable number of SNP members (and I suspect a fair few senior SNP people) will be hellbent on England voting for "out".

  4. #33
    Not just sometimes but always Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    IIRC the SNP made repeated attempts during and after the general election to work with Labour, going as far as to suggest a coalition of sorts. These offerings were disdainfully rebuffed at every opportunity.

    Labour, who didn't have a policy pot to piss in, spent so much time sneering at the SNP they took their eye off the ball in England where they lost the election against an unpopular Tory Party!

    Labour blame anyone but themselves for their abject failure.

    Once again the vote in Scotland didn't matter so Westminster carries on business as usual.

    As for the two miscreants, both lack the morals I think we'd all like to see in our elected representatives, only one has been charged with a criminal offence.
    Very naive. Labour were attempting to get into government and Sturgeon's unwanted comments about coallition helped stop any momentum that Labour had. The rest of the UK were put off by the constant barage of suggestions that the SNP would force Labours hand into a coallition (hope not fear politics right enough ) .


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  5. #34
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Governor View Post
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    That may be up for debate, but it was in the memo and the memo was leaked as it was: Carmichael didn't write the memo, he just leaked it And despite all the protestations I do find it hard to believe that given the SNP's core aim and objective that they didn't want a Tory victory. The same goes for the EU referendum, a sizeable number of SNP members (and I suspect a fair few senior SNP people) will be hellbent on England voting for "out".
    As I pointed out, what they do or don't want for political expediency is irrelevant.

    Unlike the Tories, who were hellbent on Corbyn winning the Labour leadership to the extent that they infiltrated the voting process, the SNP are unable to influence the General Election or the EU referendum, other than to campaign for Yes.

    If Nicola Sturgeon and the French ambassador deny the allegation, and the memo itself suggests some of the conversation might have been "lost in translation", then despite what you may want to be the truth, it's just not true.

    And, on top of all that, the mere idea that Nicola Sturgeon would be so naive as to say something as controversial as that in front of a minute taker, is ludicrous.
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  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    In fact, isn't that the exact same business model that the Hibernian benefactors, McEwan Fraser, adopt?

    If she's done something illegal, then she should be thrown out of the party.

    If only she had stuck to minor offences. Like arson.
    Some of us were saying at the time that McEwan Fraser weren't a suitable sponsor for the club.

    I find it slightly bizarre that you're dismissive of an elected representative being accused of taking advantage of vulnerable and desperate people whilst getting so indignant about someone that set a pair of curtains on fire, who has subsequently been punished and rehabilitated, getting a job.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Some of us were saying at the time that McEwan Fraser weren't a suitable sponsor for the club. I find it slightly bizarre that you're dismissive of an elected representative being accused of taking advantage of vulnerable and desperate people whilst getting so indignant about someone that set a pair of curtains on fire, who has subsequently been punished and rehabilitated, getting a job.
    Not to forget the Solicitor in question has been struck off..

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Unlike the Tories, who were hellbent on Corbyn winning the Labour leadership to the extent that they infiltrated the voting process
    Nonsense, even Corbyn came out at the time and said it was "nonsense". Maybe a few tried to register but nobody took it seriously.

  9. #38
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    I find it slightly bizarre that you're dismissive of an elected representative being accused of taking advantage of vulnerable and desperate people whilst getting so indignant about someone that set a pair of curtains on fire, who has subsequently been punished and rehabilitated, getting a job.
    To be honest, I was playing devil's advocate a bit. When the story first broke, like most people, I was appalled, and if it's shown that she has acted immorally, then I totally disapprove and she should be roundly criticised. To be honest, even if she hasn't, she'll struggle to recover.

    However, this is politics at play so I'd still like to hear Thomson's version of events. Of course people are going to be upset if they find that they could have got more for their property. I dislike trading in my car, because I know the garage will get loads more for it than they're paying me, but that's the price I have to pay for the convenience and a quick sale.

    There's not much point me greeting about it if I see it on sale in the forecourt for a couple of grand more than I received. Yes, the sums are much bigger, but the general principle is the same.

    McEwan Fraser will tell you that they help people by selling their houses quickly. That's the service they offer and there's a premium to be paid for it. That's a completely different spin than the one the press are using to gub Thomson. I'm yet to see a press article attacking McEwan Fraser.

    In what way were the people vulnerable, other than keen to sell? That's a genuine question as I stopped following the story a while ago so there may have been developments I don't know about.

    On your second point, how do you know Watson has been rehabilitated? Loads of people who go to jail are not rehabilitated.

    In any case, I just don't think that people who break the law should be allowed to make the law. It's not as if he merely nicked a mars bar or shared a spliff when he was a uni. He set a fire in an hotel, a crime so serious, he was jailed for a year and a quarter!

    To turn your phrase on its head, I find it slightly bizarre that you're happy to forgive an arsonist and allow him to, literally, Lord it over us, whilst getting so indignant about someone against whom, no wrong doing has been proved.

    Would you be happy if it turns out that Thomson has broken the law, gets jailed for it, and then returns to parliament when she gets out?
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 12-10-2015 at 03:58 PM.
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  10. #39
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Nonsense, even Corbyn came out at the time and said it was "nonsense". Maybe a few tried to register but nobody took it seriously.
    Do you think Corbyn would have said otherwise?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...my-Corbyn.html

    Of course there were Tories voting for Corbyn. Loads got caught.
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  11. #40
    I'm not sure which is more morally reprehensible and I'm not sure we'll know until/unless the full facts of the Thompson case emerge. My guess is both pretty bad.

    However, Sturgeon seems to have dealt with the matter in exemplary fashion. MT is sidelined while investigated but given presumption of innocence. It's been made pretty clear that if the allegations are proven, she'll be out on her ear. I hope that's the case.

    Otoh, whichever non-entity handled the Carmichael thing for the Libs seemed to basically go with "he's suffered enough".

  12. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Some of us were saying at the time that McEwan Fraser weren't a suitable sponsor for the club.

    I find it slightly bizarre that you're dismissive of an elected representative being accused of taking advantage of vulnerable and desperate people whilst getting so indignant about someone that set a pair of curtains on fire, who has subsequently been punished and rehabilitated, getting a job.
    Really? Are you whispering Beef Harris?

    The late night curtain fire could easily have led to much more serious consequences (as I'm sure you realise).

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Nonsense, even Corbyn came out at the time and said it was "nonsense". Maybe a few tried to register but nobody took it seriously.
    To be fair to Corbyn, he's said a few things that tuned out to be nonsense.

  14. #43
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I'm not sure which is more morally reprehensible and I'm not sure we'll know until/unless the full facts of the Thompson case emerge. My guess is both pretty bad.

    However, Sturgeon seems to have dealt with the matter in exemplary fashion. MT is sidelined while investigated but given presumption of innocence. It's been made pretty clear that if the allegations are proven, she'll be out on her ear. I hope that's the case.

    Otoh, whichever non-entity handled the Carmichael thing for the Libs seemed to basically go with "he's suffered enough".
    Excuse my ignorance but what are the allegations against Thompson? I believe she made an offer on a property for sale. If the allegation is that she then sold it on for a profit well big ****ing deal.

  15. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    Excuse my ignorance but what are the allegations against Thompson? I believe she made an offer on a property for sale. If the allegation is that she then sold it on for a profit well big ****ing deal.
    There's basically 2 strands:

    1. as you say, that she offered sellers a quick sale at below market value and then made a fast buck. This seems to be not disputed by anyone. It's the extent of the "vulnerability" of the sellers that's contentious.

    2. that she committed mortgage fraud. Her solicitor was struck off because he failed to notify the banks that the properties he was dealing with had been sold recently at a much lower value. I must admit I'm unsure how you use that to commit fraud? ... but anyway, it could just be an oversight by her solicitor or it could be a conspiracy involving MT, her partner and the solicitor.

  16. #45
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    There's basically 2 strands:

    1. as you say, that she offered sellers a quick sale at below market value and then made a fast buck. This seems to be not disputed by anyone. It's the extent of the "vulnerability" of the sellers that's contentious.

    2. that she committed mortgage fraud. Her solicitor was struck off because he failed to notify the banks that the properties he was dealing with had been sold recently at a much lower value. I must admit I'm unsure how you use that to commit fraud? ... but anyway, it could just be an oversight by her solicitor or it could be a conspiracy involving MT, her partner and the solicitor.
    Vulnerable to a low bid? I'm sure Thompson didn't send anybody round to twist their arms.

    I can't see how that's fraud either. Surely the banks only need to see an independent valuation to authorise a mortgage.

  17. #46
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    The issue with Thompson is that she bought the property's cheap and sold them a few hours later, even to her husband. Whether there's mortgage fraud in their is being investigated. The issue is that the SNP removed her from her post as Excutive of Business for Scotland, and yet a few months later she was allowed to stand for the SNP. Morally she appear bankrupt. The SNP have even taken her photo out of the window of her constituency office. If she resigns I fully expect the SNP to retain the seat. But I think she'll hang on but won't be selected again.

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    Vulnerable to a low bid? I'm sure Thompson didn't send anybody round to twist their arms. I can't see how that's fraud either. Surely the banks only need to see an independent valuation to authorise a mortgage.
    Sure I read a quote that it was related to potential money laundering and the solicitor had not taken the correct precautions against it during these transactions...not certain though.

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Do you think Corbyn would have said otherwise?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...my-Corbyn.html

    Of course there were Tories voting for Corbyn. Loads got caught.
    You present things as fact then back it up with a link to a blog with lots of ifs and buts. Where is the evidence they did infiltrate the voting process and made a difference to the vote.

  20. #49
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    You present things as fact then back it up with a link to a blog with lots of ifs and buts. Where is the evidence they did infiltrate the voting process and made a difference to the vote.
    I didn't say it made any difference to the vote. I said they infiltrated the voting process.

    The Telegraph encouraged them to vote for Corbyn, including this man, has been bragging about doing so.
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 12-10-2015 at 04:36 PM.
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  21. #50
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    You present things as fact then back it up with a link to a blog with lots of ifs and buts. Where is the evidence they did infiltrate the voting process and made a difference to the vote.
    I didn't say it made any difference to the vote. I said they infiltrated the voting process.

    The Telegraph encouraged them to vote for Corbyn, several were caught trying and some, including this man, has been bragging about doing so.
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  22. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    To turn your phrase on its head, I find it slightly bizarre that you're happy to forgive an arsonist and allow him to, literally, Lord it over us, whilst getting so indignant about someone against whom, no wrong doing has been proved.

    Would you be happy if it turns out that Thomson has broken the law, gets jailed for it, and then returns to parliament when she gets out?
    I haven't said that I've forgiven Watson or been in any way indignant about Thompson on here.

    To be honest, if she gets jailed and serves her time, I don't really give two hoots what she does after her release as long as she doesn't do it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Really?
    Yes, really. As you know, I'm rarely coy about sharing my opinions and, during their sponsorship with Hibs, I was pretty open about my views on McEwan Fraser.

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    The issue with Thompson is that she bought the property's cheap and sold them a few hours later, even to her husband. Whether there's mortgage fraud in their is being investigated. The issue is that the SNP removed her from her post as Excutive of Business for Scotland, and yet a few months later she was allowed to stand for the SNP. Morally she appear bankrupt. The SNP have even taken her photo out of the window of her constituency office. If she resigns I fully expect the SNP to retain the seat. But I think she'll hang on but won't be selected again.
    Not true, as far as I'm aware, but maybe you can point to the evidence for me.

    The SNP believed that the roles of Thompson, and Macintyre Kemp were doing the same thing, and so stopped her consultancy payments. She kept the position of Executive Director.

    The reason her photo has been removed is that she's no longer an SNP member, after "She" removed herself.

  24. #53
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Some of us were saying at the time that McEwan Fraser weren't a suitable sponsor for the club.
    .
    I was one of them and I remember having a decent exchange of views about it with at least one of the posters on this thread.
    They don't do anything illegal and those who defend them will say they are providing a service which people know they are going to have to pay a premium for. A lot of those will have little choice though having been pushed down that road by financial circumstances. Maybe Scotlands ruling establishment party at Hyrood will learn from this and try and find a solution that keeps some vulnerable people pushed down the discount buyers route in their own homes.
    Sturgeon has effectively hung her MP out to dry anyhow, well done to her. The smug assertion that Scottish politicians were above any wrongdoing was always going to come back and bite them. Politicians can behave badly regardless of party or nationality. It's good to see a leader take swift action though.
    Last edited by marinello59; 12-10-2015 at 06:15 PM.
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  25. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    I haven't said that I've forgiven Watson or been in any way indignant about Thompson on here.

    To be honest, if she gets jailed and serves her time, I don't really give two hoots what she does after her release as long as she doesn't do it again.



    Yes, really. As you know, I'm rarely coy about sharing my opinions and, during their sponsorship with Hibs, I was pretty open about my views on McEwan Fraser.
    http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?2...=1#post4077258

    "All legal activities though so it's fair enough for Hibs to take them all on as sponsors."

    Not exactly damning condemnation.

  26. #55
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    I was one of them and I remember having a decent exchange of views about it with at least one of the posters on this thread.
    They don't do anything illegal and those who defend them will say they are providing a service which people know they are going to have to pay a premium for. A lot of those will have little choice though having been pushed down that road by financial circumstances. Maybe Scotlands ruling establishment party at Hyrood will learn from this and try and find a solution that keeps some vulnerable people pushed down the discount buyers route in their own homes.
    Sturgeon has effectively hung her MP out to dry anyhow, well done to her. The smug assertion that Scottish politicians were above any wrongdoing was always going to come back and bite them. Politicians can behave badly regardless of party or nationality. It's good to see a leader take swift action though.
    They always have the option of defaulting on their mortgage and losing everything. Personally I'd go for the cheap sale myself?

  27. #56
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?2...=1#post4077258

    "All legal activities though so it's fair enough for Hibs to take them all on as sponsors."

    Not exactly damning condemnation.
    There's something a bit creepy about you raking back over a year ago to dig up a post to have a go at Beefster, just because he responded when you made your snidey 'Whispering' comment.

    Perhaps if you had done a proper job and gone back a bit further, you would have found these?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster
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    They do take advantage (and profit massively as a result) from the desperation of those in difficulty IMHO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster
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    Some would view it as preying on desperate people


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  28. #57
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    They always have the option of defaulting on their mortgage and losing everything. Personally I'd go for the cheap sale myself?
    That makes their business practice 100% sound then. And if a member of a caring progressive party wants to benefit from it so much the better.
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  29. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Not true, as far as I'm aware, but maybe you can point to the evidence for me.

    The SNP believed that the roles of Thompson, and Macintyre Kemp were doing the same thing, and so stopped her consultancy payments. She kept the position of Executive Director.

    The reason her photo has been removed is that she's no longer an SNP member, after "She" removed herself.
    Yet the office is hers funded by UK taxpayers. So rather than remove her photo it should have been the SNP logo that was removed.

    She was stopped receiving her salary from Business for Scotland but was kept in the role. Does that not indicate something was wrong?

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    They always have the option of defaulting on their mortgage and losing everything. Personally I'd go for the cheap sale myself?
    If she had nothing to hide from her business transactions why was she not more open about it during election and selection. More than 50% of our new SNP MPs own more than one home but no one is accusing them of anything

  31. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?2...=1#post4077258

    "All legal activities though so it's fair enough for Hibs to take them all on as sponsors."

    Not exactly damning condemnation.
    What the **** is your problem? That might be the most tragic thing anyone has ever done to me on Hibs.net. A metaphorical trawl through my bin rubbish. If I'm ever in need of a ride or a life, I'll trawl through your historic posts to make a [wrong] point.

    Who mentioned 'damning condemnation' by the way?

    As Mibbes Aye has already quoted a few other posts that I made about McEwan Fraser, I'll leave it there.

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