Interview with Frank Dougan

[AL-Qaholik]

Frank's a top guy and we all know how much he bleeds green BUT he's giving this interview as a director of the club and, as such, is treading on very dangerous ground IMO.
Imagine if a non-fan-elected board member had come out and said folk's reasons for not renewing or buying season tickets were "petty". Or suggested that anyone who doesn't go to games has no right to criticise anything at the club? He'd be rightly rounded and held accountable. This is an interview with Frank the board member, but it's clearly Frank the Fan who is answering. FWIW, I think having someone like Frank on the board is absolutely invaluable to what they club are trying to achieve but the board as a whole, fan-reps very much included, are gonna have to be far less disrespectful in future interviews if they want to get the fans back on side...

[JimBHibees]

Seems an incredibly high number of 1300 not to renew from last season to this. Personally thought last season was a huge improvement certainly in terms of the quality of football on show. Very surprised. I think Frank's ire is directed at the hugely unhelpful campaign orchestrated around about the start of the share issue which to me was damaging to the club as there were some serious allegations made which to me have never been proven to be anywhere near true.

[superfurryhibby]

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I don't think so at all. There's an endless amount of ignorant & unfounded crap posted on here and elsewhere, much of it far more disrespectful than anything Frank has said in the interview.

Boston point is valid, discontent is legitimate and we, the fan/customer/life and soul of the club, have the right to express a view.

There has been a lot of nonsense posted on here. However, this has led to some well informed responses. Guys like Caversham and Cropley was God have helped undermine said nonsense in a way that the board would have struggled to do so.

I was ( and still partially remain) sceptical about the way the club has been run over the STF years, but I also feel reassured that we are not being royally shafted. Without discussion and dissent, we may have struggled to put some of the nonsense to bed.

For the fans reps on the board it must be a fine line to tread. I think they have credibility and that is really important, but they must navigate carefullyif they aren't to be seen as a mouthpiece of the executive directors. I look forward to seeing and hearing more of them and hearing more about how the club is accommodating fans wishes. At this massively important period in our history it matters.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Well said. Frank talking about people criticising the club? He means criticising for the sake of it. The club I'm sure would welcome criticism as long as there is a point to it and is constructive. Why would they or should they give the time of day to some utter drivel we have read on this forum and heard shouted at games?!

For a football club what you think and what you say cant always be the same thing. In the minds of those who post the negative stuff their point of view is just as valid as the next guys. As for folk shouting stuff at games ....... At least they are at the game .. there's plenty of folk out there saying nice stuff who still cant quite find the way to Leith on a Saturday .... which of the two groups are of more value to Hibs?

[CallumLaidlaw]

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You are correct, the reason for not renewing nor attending are complicated. For me, well ... utterly disappointed and totally lost the 'love' factor! I feel the heart, soul and mentality are gone from the club and further more, cannot associate with many of the players. Everything feels bolt-on not building from however, there is longer term contracts given out to younger players and new players which does bode well for future team development. I do though, still pay for my three boys strips and my eldest son season ticket.

I don't know what will bring me back?? Continued failure - in my view - will not!

I find this quite interesting. I personally feel there is a better connection between fans and players than there's been for a number of years. The likes of Martin Boyle, Jason Cummings, Marvin Bartley now chat freely with the fans on social media. Boyle & Cummings joined some fans in the pub on Saturday night for a few drinks with Martin Boyle saying he done it because "its you guys that pay my wages". It's nice to think we have players that finally realise that. I certainly didnt feel that with the likes of Ryan McGivern in the squad. The visits to east mains allowed fans to chat with Stubbs, George Craig, etc, and get a real feel of what goes on at the training centre. The players all seem to be in it together, with a real bond between them and the coaching staff too.
I totally agree that there HAS been a disconnect, but I definitely think it is a hundred times better in the last 12 months.

As an aside, I don't have an issue with Frank the Director talking like Frank the Fan. We'd all be very quick to round on him if he came out with a load of pre-prepared director-speak. The whole point of a fan on the board is to react like a fan, talk like a fan surely.

As for the "keyboard warriors" comment - I think its something we can all relate to. I dont think its AS bad on here as it is on some of the facebook groups, especially where these people can tag the club into their comments. Some people literally have NOTHING positive to say about the club. Someone started a comment on one of the FB groups yesterday saying "so much for Hibs promise of spending the Scott Allan money" - of course, Mcgregor, McGeouch, Anier, Insall cost nothing weekly or in signing on fees!!

[Bad Martini]

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I find this quite interesting. I personally feel there is a better connection between fans and players than there's been for a number of years. The likes of Martin Boyle, Jason Cummings, Marvin Bartley now chat freely with the fans on social media. Boyle & Cummings joined some fans in the pub on Saturday night for a few drinks with Martin Boyle saying he done it because "its you guys that pay my wages". It's nice to think we have players that finally realise that. I certainly didnt feel that with the likes of Ryan McGivern in the squad. The visits to east mains allowed fans to chat with Stubbs, George Craig, etc, and get a real feel of what goes on at the training centre. The players all seem to be in it together, with a real bond between them and the coaching staff too.
I totally agree that there HAS been a disconnect, but I definitely think it is a hundred times better in the last 12 months.

For sure.

As regards the interview and the afflicted punters who feel concerned/upset/slightly pissed off someone who loves the club would dare question other fans, I say, bollocks. Grow a pair and take it on the chin. This falls into two categories:

1) If you feel afflicted by the mans words because you sometimes vent fairly, on issues that piss you off - you're entitled to do that, nobody minds, most folk do it and I'd wager it shows that you give a toss. Fair play. Suggest the "keyboard warrior" thing was NOT aimed at you

2) If you feel afflicted by the mans words because you always vent fairly (or otherwise), on issues that piss you off and anything/everything you can - you're NOT entitled to do that, nobody gives a toss, most folk dont do it and I'd wager it shows that you are an arse and we dont need you anyway? Suggest the "keyboard warrior" was aimed at you but should've said "if you're no with us, you're against us ya torn faced gett"

This said, this could be why I never have and never will be elected to the board or any other position of diplomacy in fitba.

In all seriousnes, if someone is giving up their time to better the club and tells how it is, thats fair enough in my book.

We're all Hibby's. Anyone who perenially moans is just (at best) ****ing boring and misguided and at worst, enjoying some odd and perverse joy from winding others up.

GGTTH

[Jack]

I think Frank is reflecting LDs frustration at supporters not being able to draw a line in the sand from the previous regime and their disasters and moving on together with the renewed hope and optimism of those currently running the club.

I do too, at times, I got my first season ticket for years on the back of seeing those changes and a tidal wave of optimism.

But equally I suppress a rage for what happened to us, one of the advantages of having a multi personality issue! So I know how they feel too and some of the negativity is justified. Many bridges have burned over the years. Hibs need to show more empathy with those supporters rather than expect compliance.

The answers around keyboard warriors is just a piece of crap. I wonder how and when, given his disassociation with the internet, this became part of Franks vocabulary and what he means by it!

[Ozyhibby]

Perhaps the 1300 non renewers were people who were locked into a season ticket last season having purchased before relegation? The clubs 'tough luck' attitude to pricing may hardened their stance to buying season tickets?
Being criticised by the board will bring them back though, I'm sure.


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[Kato]

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I totally agree that there HAS been a disconnect, but I definitely think it is a hundred times better in the last 12 months.

Thing it takes a long slow process for that disconnect to occur. The process of reconnecting can be even longer. The best way to speed it up will be different factors for different people and even then the reconnect might not even happen.

There isn't a simple switch or a "drawing a line underneath the past" that connects people back up again. It's an emotional and visceral process.

[Forza Fred]

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Perhaps the 1300 non renewers were people who were locked into a season ticket last season having purchased before relegation? The clubs 'tough luck' attitude to pricing may hardened their stance to buying season tickets?
Being criticised by the board will bring them back though, I'm sure.


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That is something that I see as being not helpful.......the Fawlty a Towers' almost suggestion I sometimes detect along the lines of....."this football club would function very well if it wasn't for the supporters..."

Managers/politicians/football club boards will ALWAYS have a degree of criticism, no matter what they do.

Their job as leaders is to identify what is valid, and respond to it, and frankly ignore the spurious stuff.

Not to complain publicly about it being offered though...

[Forza Fred]

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The answers around keyboard warriors is just a piece of crap. I wonder how and when, given his disassociation with the internet, this became part of Franks vocabulary and what he means by it!

Very good point.

[JoeT_WasTheBest]

I love the fact Frank doesn't understand why people don't come back and that some are blaming Petrie which is so petty. This is the same guy who at the end of the Hamilton game was shouting to me, in earshot of my then 8 year old and 6 year old, that he wouldn't be going back until "that ******** Petrie" left....

I can understand and welcome the fact that people change their minds, but a bit of an acceptance that he had held that view himself wouldn't have gone amiss IMHO.

That apart, I wish him and Amit all the best.

[green day]

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Seems an incredibly high number of 1300 not to renew from last season to this. Personally thought last season was a huge improvement certainly in terms of the quality of football on show. Very surprised. I think Frank's ire is directed at the hugely unhelpful campaign orchestrated around about the start of the share issue which to me was damaging to the club as there were some serious allegations made which to me have never been proven to be anywhere near true.

Its still happening, if you look at some of the tweets sent by mates of a certain boxing promoter they are still playing the 'its a ponzi scheme for Farmers benefit' line - these guys have a lot of connections, both on and offline and mud sticks.

As many others have said, we are no worse or better than other fans - a successful team will bring back the fans - no question. I remember the days of Tynecastle being like a morgue when they were in the old first division - changed days, eh?

Success will encourage more fans = more money = more success = more fans.

As for ST numbers, there must also have been a lot (like me plus 2) who had not had one for years and got one this year.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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You are correct, the reason for not renewing nor attending are complicated. For me, well ... utterly disappointed and totally lost the 'love' factor! I feel the heart, soul and mentality are gone from the club and further more, cannot associate with many of the players. Everything feels bolt-on not building from however, there is longer term contracts given out to younger players and new players which does bode well for future team development. I do though, still pay for my three boys strips and my eldest son season ticket.

I don't know what will bring me back?? Continued failure - in my view - will not!

Maybe you just need to admit that you are an ex-Hibs fan then?

[Ozyhibby]

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Maybe you just need to admit that you are an ex-Hibs fan then?

Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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[flash]

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Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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You are right.
Maybe the club should listen more and interact better with supporters. Maybe they should back the manager in the transfer market. Maybe they should apologise for how the club was run up until recently.

Oh hang on they did all that.

Does there ever come a point where the onus switches from the club, who are clearly making a massive effort to reconnect, to those who have decided to withdraw their support?

[CallumLaidlaw]

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Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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He says himself he doesn't know what will bring him back so how are the club meant to know?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Would be better if the club could entice him back rather than label him an ex? No?


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Yeah, but that's the rub. How do they do that in a way that they are not already?

What more can the club do at the moment? We are in a terrible situation, no doubt, but it is not the fault of the people in charge now, who are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

The latent (ex?) Hibs support out there are not doing their bit, and are part of the problem at the moment. The reason it annoys me so much is that it worries me, because at the moment i really can see a scenario where Hibs become a permanently reduced club in terms of size and stature, a la Dundee. And you know who will be the first to moan about it if that does happen - the same fans who are a large part of the problem in the first place.

Dont get me wrong Ozy, god knows its been difficult following Hibs lately, and personally i have fallen out of love with the club a lot - i now dont attend games for no good reason when i never would have in the past. But equally, there is only one way out of the malaise, and that is for fans to do their bit, show their loyalty and courage and get behind the team.

Remember how we all looked at clubs such as Man City and lauded the loyalty of their fans through their dark years? Well, i dont htink anyone will be lauding the loyalty of the wider Hibs support, who in my opinion, have not stepped up to the plate when it was needed. We as a support have shown the collective lack of backbone that the worst Hibs teams have been known for.

[Onion]

Is this bit right .....

"There's 1300 people who haven't renewed from last season, and we're actually up on season ticket numbers overall, so why are these people not coming back? "

Do Hibs genuinely not know why those 1300 customers have not renewed or am I just reading this wrong. The impression Frank gives is that they made a few phone calls and got a few reasons and "excuses".

[Ozyhibby]

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Yeah, but that's the rub. How do they do that in a way that they are not already?

What more can the club do at the moment? We are in a terrible situation, no doubt, but it is not the fault of the people in charge now, who are trying to make the best of a bad situation.

The latent (ex?) Hibs support out there are not doing their bit, and are part of the problem at the moment. The reason it annoys me so much is that it worries me, because at the moment i really can see a scenario where Hibs become a permanently reduced club in terms of size and stature, a la Dundee. And you know who will be the first to moan about it if that does happen - the same fans who are a large part of the problem in the first place.

Dont get me wrong Ozy, god knows its been difficult following Hibs lately, and personally i have fallen out of love with the club a lot - i now dont attend games for no good reason when i never would have in the past. But equally, there is only one way out of the malaise, and that is for fans to do their bit, show their loyalty and courage and get behind the team.

Remember how we all looked at clubs such as Man City and lauded the loyalty of their fans through their dark years? Well, i dont htink anyone will be lauding the loyalty of the wider Hibs support, who in my opinion, have not stepped up to the plate when it was needed. We as a support have shown the collective lack of backbone that the worst Hibs teams have been known for.

Problem is, it's still the same people in charge. All of the board members who failed so spectacularly are still there.
Leeann Dempster appears to be trying very hard to turn things around, she has improved communication with fans, she has introduced a level of professionalism and structure that I think we have needed for a long time and has shown real commitment to the job IMHO. However, these are all inputs and real success can only be measured in results and from a business point of view, increased sales. On both these fronts we are still waiting. I feel sorry for her in that working with the failed board, she has both hand tied behind her back. A lot of fans won't come back until they are gone which obviously deprives us of much needed income and prevents her from speeding up our rehabilitation. We now know that the board think they are being petty and they may be correct but football fans can be petty. That's life.
Either way, the cycle needs to be broken.
Outstanding results on the park would be a massive help until that happens an olive branch in the form of our chairman standing down would be a step forward.
On the subject of our fans, we have stepped up to the plate. The 8000 who are still attending are probably putting in more than they ever have before with HSL, season tickets and the fact that there are purple strips every way you look in Edinburgh. The core are working their socks off to improve things.



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[Peevemor]

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Problem is, it's still the same people in charge. All of the board members who failed so spectacularly are still there.

Is LD not in charge? And even if she does have to answer to STF via RP, she seems to be getting a pretty free rein - so where's the problem?

Leeann Dempster appears to be trying very hard to turn things around, she has improved communication with fans, she has introduced a level of professionalism and structure that I think we have needed for a long time and has shown real commitment to the job IMHO. However, these are all inputs and real success can only be measured in results and from a business point of view, increased sales. On both these fronts we are still waiting. I feel sorry for her in that working with the failed board, she has both hand tied behind her back.

See above. If people can't recognise how much things have changed at ER/EM, it's because they don't want to IMO.

A lot of fans won't come back until they are gone which obviously deprives us of much needed income and prevents her from speeding up our rehabilitation. We now know that the board think they are being petty and they may be correct but football fans can be petty. That's life.
Either way, the cycle needs to be broken.

Which is why STF & RP have actioned a long term plan effectively gifting (from their point of view) control of the club to the fans.

Outstanding results on the park would be a massive help until that happens an olive branch in the form of our chairman standing down would be a step forward.

Maybe in reality it would be detrimental? Maybe LD wouldn't have been given such a free hand if RP wasn't there to run stuff past STF?

On the subject of our fans, we have stepped up to the plate. The 8000 who are still attending are probably putting in more than they ever have before with HSL, season tickets and the fact that there are purple strips every way you look in Edinburgh. The core are working their socks off to improve things.

Supporters buy strips if they like them, not simply to give the club money. Maybe the club have got something right for once - much as it might stick in your throat.

[Ozyhibby]

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Is LD not in charge? And even if she does have to answer to STF via RP, she seems to be getting a pretty free rein - so where's the problem?



See above. If people can't recognise how much things have changed at ER/EM, it's because they don't want to IMO.



Which is why STF & RP have actioned a long term plan effectively gifting (from their point of view) control of the club to the fans.



Maybe in reality it would be detrimental? Maybe LD wouldn't have been given such a free hand if RP wasn't there to run stuff past STF?



Supporters buy strips if they like them, not simply to give the club money. Maybe the club have got something right for once - much as it might stick in your throat.

Why would it stick in my throat?


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[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Problem is, it's still the same people in charge. All of the board members who failed so spectacularly are still there.
Leeann Dempster appears to be trying very hard to turn things around, she has improved communication with fans, she has introduced a level of professionalism and structure that I think we have needed for a long time and has shown real commitment to the job IMHO. However, these are all inputs and real success can only be measured in results and from a business point of view, increased sales. On both these fronts we are still waiting. I feel sorry for her in that working with the failed board, she has both hand tied behind her back. A lot of fans won't come back until they are gone which obviously deprives us of much needed income and prevents her from speeding up our rehabilitation. We now know that the board think they are being petty and they may be correct but football fans can be petty. That's life.
Either way, the cycle needs to be broken.
Outstanding results on the park would be a massive help until that happens an olive branch in the form of our chairman standing down would be a step forward.
On the subject of our fans, we have stepped up to the plate. The 8000 who are still attending are probably putting in more than they ever have before with HSL, season tickets and the fact that there are purple strips every way you look in Edinburgh. The core are working their socks off to improve things.


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Frankly, the idea that our Board make-up is keeping large numbers of fans away from is not true, and fans who use that are simply making an excuse. I couldnt even name the Hbs board, and i doubt many others could either. Agree about Petrie stepping down, and that annoys me too - if i had done as bad a job as him, i would have the grace to resign. But if people are basically giving up supporting Hibs because of Petrie, then thats just daft. Different it was an organised and sustained boyott (which can be very effective), but this isnt.

I remember for years when i was young hearing how many Hibs fans wouldnt go back to ER until Alex Miller was out. I honestly grew-up htinking that there were thousands of Hibbies staging some principled boycott. But they didnt materialise, and i learned that many people like to be associated or known as a Hibs fan, but in actual fact are just constantly looking for an excuse not to have to bother being an actual supporter.

I agree the core support have done their bit, but that is what worries me. Hibs success as far as crowds go isnt determined by the core, but by the latent support. They are very conspicuous by their absence, and it gets my goat. These people are occasional followers, and they are not doing their bit.

The latent, collective Hibs support are spineless. They often do not attend matches they think we will lose (Hearts semi final and recent playoff against Huns for example), and they get my goat because it is them that are doing the most damage by abandoning their club when their support is most needed. I just wish they would have the courage of their convictions and admit it, rather than hiding behind some pathetic excuse.

[MrSmith]

Thanks for all the replies and comments.

I've been thinking about this all day. I'm not angry at the board nor the players and for sure, it is not the fans fault for the predicament we find ourselves in. I appreciate what Leanne, Alan Stubbs and his coaching team are doing however, I feel the heart has been ripped out of us! We are too nice! We need a ruthless fighting streak from top to bottom that installs/Instills a winning mentality! That means coming out and standing up to the constant Glasgow SFA/SPFL and media machine nonsense! We have it on the terraces just not in the club anymore. We are just too nice and drab.

[Peevemor]

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Why would it stick in my throat?


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One less reason to have a pop at the board.

[Ozyhibby]

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Frankly, the idea that our Board make-up is keeping large numbers of fans away from is not true, and fans who use that are simply making an excuse. I couldnt even name the Hbs board, and i doubt many others could either. Agree about Petrie stepping down, and that annoys me too - if i had done as bad a job as him, i would have the grace to resign. But if people are basically giving up supporting Hibs because of Petrie, then thats just daft. Different it was an organised and sustained boyott (which can be very effective), but this isnt.

I remember for years when i was young hearing how many Hibs fans wouldnt go back to ER until Alex Miller was out. I honestly grew-up htinking that there were thousands of Hibbies staging some principled boycott. But they didnt materialise, and i learned that many people like to be associated or known as a Hibs fan, but in actual fact are just constantly looking for an excuse not to have to bother being an actual supporter.

I agree the core support have done their bit, but that is what worries me. Hibs success as far as crowds go isnt determined by the core, but by the latent support. They are very conspicuous by their absence, and it gets my goat. These people are occasional followers, and they are not doing their bit.

The latent, collective Hibs support are spineless. They often do not attend matches they think we will lose (Hearts semi final and recent playoff against Huns for example), and they get my goat because it is them that are doing the most damage by abandoning their club when their support is most needed. I just wish they would have the courage of their convictions and admit it, rather than hiding behind some pathetic excuse.

Attendance at the Hearts semi final was down to the club only selling one ticket per season ticket holder. It stopped people from being able to get seats together. It was a crazy decision that caused a lot of embarrassment for the club.
They have learned from that mistake and since then trips to Hampden have been well attended.


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[Ozyhibby]

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One less reason to have a pop at the board.

I only care about our on field performance. You won't find me on threads complaining about the hue of our new home strip etc.
on off field matters the board have performed adequately.
It's results that matter. Nothing else.


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[blackpoolhibs]

FFS even a monkey knows why season ticket holders have not renewed, you only need to look at what league we are playing in and how we got there.

Here's a phrase you might know Frank?

The straw that broke the camel's back.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Attendance at the Hearts semi final was down to the club only selling one ticket per season ticket holder. It stopped people from being able to get seats together. It was a crazy decision that caused a lot of embarrassment for the club.
They have learned from that mistake and since then trips to Hampden have been well attended.


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Yeah, they defintely made it more difficult, but come on, that doesn't sound a bit like an excuse to you?

[Ozyhibby]

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Yeah, they defintely made it more difficult, but come on, that doesn't sound a bit like an excuse to you?

My dad normally goes to big games with me and he leaves it to me to get tickets, sort buses etc.
That day he said not to bother as it would have meant two desperate trips down to ER to get tickets and we would not be together anyway. He watched in the pub instead.
Your right, it is an excuse but why did the club make it difficult for him to attend when they had all those unsold tickets.
Still, it's not an issue now because they have learned from that mistake.


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