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  1. #31
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Sadly the admins seem to agree with you. I applaud the German fans who got this going. Football is there to unite people and that's what they're doing. Us, well obviously we're not ready to get over our political, sectarian or religious differences to come together and do something positive for people in desperate need. Sad day for Hibs net.
    Pretty Boy has given a good explanation of just why the thread was moved.
    Nothing to stop you from taking the lead here to get something on display at ER.
    Last edited by marinello59; 02-09-2015 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Hadn't seen PB's reply.
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  3. #32
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Firstly this isn't even the thread regarding 'Refugees Welcome' so I'm unsure what point the post you are quoting is making. This thread was never on the MB.

    Secondly I moved the thread I assume is being referred to. If you read through the thread you will see my own views on the subject. Sadly though the thread went off on a wild tangent with a debate on economic migration that had nothing to do with the actions of the German fans, refugees or football. If people want to use .net as a platform to get a group together to make and display such a banner I, personally speaking, would be willing to be involved and happy to see the site used in such a way. As it was this thread was doing nothing of the sort and had become quite distasteful so was moved.

    Apologies, I've no idea how that happened. Just glad I popped back onto this thread before I started screaming about censorship and fascist nazi admin ****

  4. #33
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Pretty Boy has given a good explanation of just why the thread was moved.
    Nothing to stop you from taking the lead here to get something on display at ER.
    Would love to but distance is a problem. Fortunately there's enough people over here who have started help programmes where I can busy myself. There's some great initiatives going on involving people's workplace that warms the cockles and helps me regain some faith in humanity.

    Anyway sorry about my unintentional thread hijack.

  5. #34
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn View Post
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    1997 GE. Labour receive 13,518,167 votes. 43.2% of electorate.
    2001 GE. Labour receive 10,724,953 votes. 40.7% of electorate.
    2005 GE. Labour receive 8,567,589 votes. 35.2% of electorate.

    Tony Blair lost 5 million Labour supporters during his leadership. He is also a mass-murdering war criminal. That's why I don't listen to him.

    I find it strange that none of the Blairite candidates for the leadership have considered trying to appeal to non-voters (18million of them), rather than moving the party further to the right in an incompetent attempt to win over a small % of Tory voters.

    They are doing a grand job of designing the method of their own demise. Not content with losing Scotland, they are now extending their glorious failure to the rest of the UK.
    Yes, the left have been very keen to kill off the whole New Labour project. Two of the main planks of the approach is continual grinding about the Iraq war, the objectives of which (to remove a oppressive dictator) may have been supportable but which was prosecuted badly in leaving an utter vacuum. Bushes objectives, I think, were to finish a job his father had not and he didn't give a stuff about the consequences. Blair got too confident in his role as global policeman following the success of dealing with the Balkans wars after the Tories sat and did nothing to intervene (much as they are doing with current conflicts).

    The other has been the failure of to defend the party against the Tory statements that they crashed the economy when it was so obviously the reckless behaviour of the banks - they crash the US economy too but Ed Milliband felt he had to apologize for the Labour party's involvement.

    The left seem to be getting the upper hand at the moment and I expect that Blairites will be purged from the party when Corbyn wins. Balir, nevertheless delivered 3 massive election victories.

  6. #35
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    That's the polls closed then. Gawd I'd love it if Jeremy Corbyn won !

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    That's the polls closed then. Gawd I'd love it if Jeremy Corbyn won !
    The political "elite" all seem to suggest he'd be the wrong choice.

    Seems like a perfect option then

    ****, I'm not agreeing with you AGAIN, am I?

  8. #37
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    The political "elite" all seem to suggest he'd be the wrong choice.

    Seems like a perfect option then

    ****, I'm not agreeing with you AGAIN, am I?
    Ken !

  9. #38
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    Well the long drawn out leadership contest is almost over...all I can say is that as Labour have looked so inept at holding a rather straight forward election gawd knows how anyone could ever vote for them to run the country!

  10. #39
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    Mon Jezza !

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flynn View Post
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    1997 GE. Labour receive 13,518,167 votes. 43.2% of electorate.
    2001 GE. Labour receive 10,724,953 votes. 40.7% of electorate.
    2005 GE. Labour receive 8,567,589 votes. 35.2% of electorate.

    Tony Blair lost 5 million Labour supporters during his leadership. He is also a mass-murdering war criminal. That's why I don't listen to him.

    I find it strange that none of the Blairite candidates for the leadership have considered trying to appeal to non-voters (18million of them), rather than moving the party further to the right in an incompetent attempt to win over a small % of Tory voters.

    They are doing a grand job of designing the method of their own demise. Not content with losing Scotland, they are now extending their glorious failure to the rest of the UK.
    I keep seeing this argument and it's bonkers. Tony Blair also GAINED those voters in the first place. The first two victories were landslides and the third win was unprecedented for the Labour Party.

    Adding in factors such as the clear influence of Blair on the Tories - who were dragged kicking and screaming towards the centre after their lurch to the right as they realised it was the only way to defeat New Labour - and it's clear that Labour's electoral successes would run dry naturally anyway once the Tories learnt their lessons and Blair was gone. Who knows how 2010 would have shaped up with Blair still in power. It's very rare for any party of government to increase vote share once in office as it is.

    I'm sorry, but of all the things to attack Tony Blair for (and there are many) his electoral record really isn't one of them.

  12. #41
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Governor View Post
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    I'm sorry, but of all the things to attack Tony Blair for (and there are many) his electoral record really isn't one of them.
    Well said. Elections are won by occupying the centre ground, a lesson the SNP took on board despite managing to disguise their centre right policies as being left wing.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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    He'll die before he's sold.

  13. #42
    Coaching Staff The_Todd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Perfect for those who would rather smugly congratulate themselves on being right whilst everybody else is wrong, a disaster for those who want a political party to actually achieve something. George Galloway has made a career out of that whilst achieving nothing. I can't say I'd be happy to see our party of opposition spend the next few years wallowing in righteous self indulgence whilst the Tories do what they want.
    This is absolutely key. A Corbyn victory won't lead us to a socialist paradise, quite the opposite: it'll lead us to the worst of the Thatcher years. With the centre ground vacated by Labour the Tories will happy slowly shift rightwards knowing there's nobody to stop them until they either shift so far rightwards they end up in the same mess as Labour, or Labour remembers that electability actually matters.

    My dad I'm afraid to say is a "Corbynista", he used to be on the executive of his local Labour Party but is now an SNP member. What confuses me is he thinks of me as one of the types who think "winning is more important than principle". Well, in a way he's right - because without winning what's the point? But also, let's not forget his new party also occupies that very centre ground New Labour did. He can tell me "The SNP are clearly to the left of Labour" all he likes, the SNP manifesto was the Labour Manifesto with a different colour. The actual policies they carry out are centrist (and in some cases, right-leaning). When challenged to name some redistributive policies or acts the SNP have actually got or carried out, the answer was "none". And my dad is no political slouch, he's been active politically his whole life but that question floored him.

    New Labour achieved some good things, and did some things we'd all rather forget - but it would be remiss to just forget the good things they did and shout "IRAQ! WAR CRIMES!". Good things they never could have achieved without winning power in the first place. Those who say "we don't care about winning" when they back JC should remember those words in 2015 when the Tories gleefully campaign for a third term.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member The_Exile's Avatar
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    Corbyn confirmed as the new Labour leader, looks like he's about to be confirmed as winning in the first round of votes with over 50%, quite the landslide!

  15. #44
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Exile View Post
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    Corbyn confirmed as the new Labour leader, looks like he's about to be confirmed as winning in the first round of votes with over 50%, quite the landslide!
    59.5% he got.
    [SIGPIC]

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member Golden Bear's Avatar
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    And now we have it.

    It's to be the Tom and Jerry show.

  17. #46
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    Over the moon ! What a victory !

  18. #47
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    Over the moon ! What a victory !
    David Cameron would agree with you.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  19. #48
    resident moaning git DaveF's Avatar
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    He's fairly blabbering on in his acceptance speech.

  20. #49
    Presumably all the SNP supporters who claimed they be rushing back to Labour 'if only they moved to the left" (which, given the SNP are more right than Miliband's Labour ever were, is ironic) will be over the moon?
    Last edited by Beefster; 12-09-2015 at 12:15 PM.

  21. #50
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    I've seen the argument made a few times that elections are always won by occupying the centre ground. This is incorrect, elections are won by amassing more electoral seats than the other guy or guys, and in the UK, getting as close as possible to the magic number of 325 seats. Whether these seats are gained from the Tories in swing marginals in Essex, in Scotland from the SNP, or in the North of England where a million voters deserted Labour for UKIP or did nothing because the left was unrepresented as a political voice south of Berwick and East of Monmouth, seats are seats and none is more valuable than any other. That was the great lie of the Blair years, that catering to Mondeo man was somehow more important than anything else. I am delighted at todays result, and im very comfortable being told by those 'in the know' that a Corbyn victory in a UK general election is impossible. I imagine the same 'impossible!' 'cant possibly happen!' cries could be heard back at the beginning of the campaign, when Corbyn was the 200/1 outsider.

  22. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I've seen the argument made a few times that elections are always won by occupying the centre ground. This is incorrect, elections are won by amassing more electoral seats than the other guy or guys, and in the UK, getting as close as possible to the magic number of 325 seats. Whether these seats are gained from the Tories in swing marginals in Essex, in Scotland from the SNP, or in the North of England where a million voters deserted Labour for UKIP or did nothing because the left was unrepresented as a political voice south of Berwick and East of Monmouth, seats are seats and none is more valuable than any other. That was the great lie of the Blair years, that catering to Mondeo man was somehow more important than anything else. I am delighted at todays result, and im very comfortable being told by those 'in the know' that a Corbyn victory in a UK general election is impossible. I imagine the same 'impossible!' 'cant possibly happen!' cries could be heard back at the beginning of the campaign, when Corbyn was the 200/1 outsider.
    But how do you amass more political seats than the rest? By appealing to the broadest audience I assume...thats what mondeo man and new labour was designed to do and it worked a treat. Appealing to only a core base support won't get you the 325 I would suggest.

    Interesting times ahead now the Labour (or at least the hundreds of thousands that paid 3 for the privilege! To take part in the panto) have voted for a leader very few of its senior members or MPs every wanted. All a bit strange if you ask me!

  23. #52
    Testimonial Due blaikie's Avatar
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    Resignation by Christmas?

    He surely can't lead a party when they are lining up in the background to undermine him!

    It's going to be intresting to watch.

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    But how do you amass more political seats than the rest? By appealing to the broadest audience I assume...thats what mondeo man and new labour was designed to do and it worked a treat. Appealing to only a core base support won't get you the 325 I would suggest.

    Interesting times ahead now the Labour (or at least the hundreds of thousands that paid 3 for the privilege! To take part in the panto) have voted for a leader very few of its senior members or MPs every wanted. All a bit strange if you ask me!
    I paid my 3. I expect to be purged very shortly!

  25. #54
    Not just sometimes but always Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Presumably all the SNP supporters who claimed they be rushing back to Labour 'if only they moved to the left" (which, given the SNP are more right than Miliband's Labour ever were, is ironic) will be over the moon?


    I'm looking forward to left wing politics - real left wing politics to be put on the menu. Once Corbyn deals with the Blairites I think we're going to see a landslide like when under Blair.


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  26. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    I'm looking forward to left wing politics - real left wing politics to be put on the menu. Once Corbyn deals with the Blairites I think we're going to see a landslide like when under Blair.
    Dreams are good, but Blair got his landslide as he appealed to both left and centre voters. He secured the all important "middle england" vote. Corbin will never do that. He may though stir the left in a way that's not happened in living memory.

    I agree though it will be a genuinely interesting political landscape. And if he got to an Election vs say Osborne - it would be great TV. Corbyn's principles are hard not to admire. His ability to bring the party behind him will be his biggest test - I wouldn't be sure he will ever lead Labour into a General Election - long way to go...

    His victory should create an engagement in politics across the UK, in a way thats not happened for decades...interesting times.

  27. #56
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiMar View Post
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    But how do you amass more political seats than the rest? By appealing to the broadest audience I assume...thats what mondeo man and new labour was designed to do and it worked a treat. Appealing to only a core base support won't get you the 325 I would suggest.

    Interesting times ahead now the Labour (or at least the hundreds of thousands that paid 3 for the privilege! To take part in the panto) have voted for a leader very few of its senior members or MPs every wanted. All a bit strange if you ask me!
    This country is crying out for a left wing alternative, Corbyns victory(stunning victory) shows that the people of this country have had enough of the usual main stream political speak and are ready for something different.
    [SIGPIC]

  28. #57
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    This country is crying out for a left wing alternative, Corbyns victory(stunning victory) shows that the people of this country have had enough of the usual main stream political speak and are ready for something different.
    Not sure it shows that but after the surge in SNP nothing would surprise me

  29. #58
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Presumably all the SNP supporters who claimed they be rushing back to Labour 'if only they moved to the left" (which, given the SNP are more right than Miliband's Labour ever were, is ironic) will be over the moon?
    How many people did that include? Are you saying that a large part of the Scottish electorate voted SNP because they couldn't understand the difference between the 2 party's policies? You seem to be in a one man crusade to belittle the Scottish electorate in turn making yourself look like some sort of sage in the process.
    [SIGPIC]

  30. #59
    Coaching Staff The_Todd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    I'm looking forward to left wing politics - real left wing politics to be put on the menu. Once Corbyn deals with the Blairites I think we're going to see a landslide like when under Blair.
    "Deals with" the Blairites? What does this even mean? Should anyone who is even vaguely "Blairite" expect a call from Labour HQ telling them their membership has been cancelled?

  31. #60
    It will be interesting to see how this goes. It will be by far and away the biggest shake up of the Labour Party since the revolution of Brown, Mandelson and Blair brought about New Labour.

    If he succeeds then it will be the biggest political shift in this country since 1979 and arguably one of the biggest ever. If he flops then it proves beyond doubt that there is no desire for the left in modern British politics.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

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