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  1. #1411
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I understand that it looks like that, but they're not.

    They're deliberately giving Corbyn enough rope. More and more people are turning away from him and when the time is right, he'll be challenged again.
    The one thing that guarantees Labour's continuing opposition is annual leadership contests. He's won in 2015 and 2016. I'd like there to be a clause in this apocryphal 2017 re-election that if he wins again the mandelsons et al must **** off and do the obvious thing and form SDP2. Or just give up any pretence that Labour is democratic.
    Last edited by hibsbollah; 25-02-2017 at 02:15 PM.


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  3. #1412
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    The one thing that guarantees Labour's continuing opposition is annual leadership contests. He's won in 2015 and 2016. I'd like there to be a clause in this apocryphal 2017 re-election that if he wins again the mandelsons et al must **** off and do the obvious thing and form SDP2. Or just give up any pretence that Labour is democratic.
    Jeremy Corbyn guarantees continual opposition. In fact, he guarantees diminishing opposition. He just achieved a lower share of the vote in Copeland than Michael Foot did and he was a total disaster.

    As soon as he is replaced by a credible leader, Labour's popularity will rise.

    I thought democracy meant that if the person you voted for isn't delivering what you want or expect, they can be removed.
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  4. #1413
    @hibs.net private member stantonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    The one thing that guarantees Labour's continuing opposition is annual leadership contests. He's won in 2015 and 2016. I'd like there to be a clause in this apocryphal 2017 re-election that if he wins again the mandelsons et al must **** off and do the obvious thing and form SDP2. Or just give up any pretence that Labour is democratic.
    I agree that having leadership elections every few months is bonkers and pointless...... I'd prefer Corbyn to do the decent thing and stand down and give someone else a chance to prevent a catastrophic result in the next General Election.

  5. #1414
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stantonhibby View Post
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    I agree that having leadership elections every few months is bonkers and pointless...... I'd prefer Corbyn to do the decent thing and stand down and give someone else a chance to prevent a catastrophic result in the next General Election.
    There are two central problems with this course of action; first, democratic legitimacy. Even if he wanted to, would it be legitimate to just ignore the memberships massive mandate, unprecedented in scale and frequency? Second, it is NOT inevitable that Labour loses in 2020. The polls suggest it to be likely, but if we always listened to what the polls tell us the UK would still be in Europe and Hilary Clinton would be in the White House.

    If you could ensure that a candidate came forward that could unite the Party AND still have a left wing manifesto which the Party membership wants, personally id welcome that, but that's almost impossible because the Partys divisions predate Corbyn and will still be there when and if he leaves.​ Everyone really knows this, right?

  6. #1415
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Funny yet depressingly true.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7598416.html

    "that leadership having varied not one nanodegree from the path of the entirely foreseeable."
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 25-02-2017 at 09:41 PM.

  7. #1416
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    C5mFxUyWcAQsy-v.jpg

    Jezza, struggling to fill the hall.


  8. #1418
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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  9. #1419
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Brilliant.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
    Digging gold from rock and roll
    Grabs the mic to tell us,
    He'll die before he's sold.

  10. #1420
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    You'll have to vote Green.

  11. #1421
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    You'll have to vote Green.
    It's a Tory seat here so it'll be a tactical vote for the liberals for me, I think.

    Unless . . .
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  12. #1422
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Here's a devastating indictment of Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party from an Editorial in yesterday's edition of 'The Times'.

    "In the past 20 years Labour has won three elections handsomely, two of them by landslides. Yet the party is now not merely enfeebled but in crisis. Responsibility for this precipitous decline lies entirely with the party itself. However pleasing this will be for Theresa May, it is damaging for the country and the quality of public debate.

    Since losing the 2015 election by a wide margin, Labour has abandoned the conventions of two-party politics. It has abdicated the constitutional responsibilities of a serious parliamentary opposition, floated policy ideas of extravagant absurdity and elected as leader a man whose patent unsuitability to high office is exemplified in habitual halting statements and rhetorical fumbles. This has brought the derision of his colleagues and poll ratings that break postwar records for unpopularity.

    Losing the Copeland by-election to the Conservatives was, in all the wrong senses, a historic achievement. The Tories increased their share of the vote by 8.5 per cent. That result confirms the chasm at the heart of British politics. Copeland is the first time since 1982, in the wake of victory in the Falklands, that a governing party has won a seat from the opposition. The constituency was held by Labour continuously from the 1930s. In the by-election in Stoke, Labour held on but with a decline in its share of the vote. It had the good fortune that the contest, in a strongly pro-Brexit area, had originally been seen as a battle between Labour and Ukip. The Ukip candidate and party leader, Paul Nuttall, turned out to be a mercurial character with a taste for making lurid autobiographical statements. His vote was almost eclipsed by the Tories.

    Interviewed in The Times today, David Miliband, the former foreign secretary, says that his party is further from power than at any point in his lifetime. The only quarrel an observer could have with his comment is that it may understate the severity of Labourís plight. If the Copeland swing were replicated uniformly on a national scale, the Conservative majority would soar from 12 to 124, with Labour winning 177 seats.

    Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader in name if little else, is unlikely to do as well as that in a general election. The public has thus far seen little of him. He became leader, and was re-elected to the post against the wishes of Labour MPs because he promised an ideological purity regardless of the historic failures of socialism and in defiance of the views of the electorate. Yet the defining characteristic of Mr Corbynís leadership is not his doctrinaire politics and unsavoury alliances with extremists and antisemites, but his remorseless incompetence. His grasp of policy is minimal and his lack of articulacy is demonstrated repeatedly in parliamentary debate.

    Widely regarded as an affable duffer, Mr Corbyn lacks even that reputed public amiability. When pressed in interviews he loses his temper. His public standing and refusal to recognise fault in himself are born of vanity. While the government needs to be held to account in handling Brexit negotiations, Labour has abandoned those of its voters (two-thirds of them) who supported Remain. The Liberal Democrats are reaping some rewards from this. Meanwhile Ukip may have been badly wounded by Mr Nuttallís failure to take a seat he should have won, but Labour risks further losses in the north of England to the Conservatives.

    Capable and moderate figures are abandoning Labour. Hence as the government embarks on the task of finding a new place for Britain in the international economic order outside the European Union, a parliamentary opposition exists in name alone. For Britain it is a dismal political prospect. For Labour, a historic catastrophe.

    And for Mr Corbyn, an indelible disgrace."

  13. #1423
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Nobody thinks he's the messiah.
    The Guardian's Zoe Willams certainly doesn't.

    "I also thought of Corbyn as a John the Baptist figure, who would make way for Jesus when the time came".



    Not a bad article, really.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/27/navel-gazing-labour-radical-policy-platform-jeremy-corbyn
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 27-02-2017 at 12:04 PM.

  14. #1424
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Here's a devastating indictment of Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party from an Editorial in yesterday's edition of 'The Times'.

    "In the past 20 years Labour has won three elections handsomely, two of them by landslides. Yet the party is now not merely enfeebled but in crisis. Responsibility for this precipitous decline lies entirely with the party itself. However pleasing this will be for Theresa May, it is damaging for the country and the quality of public debate.

    Since losing the 2015 election by a wide margin, Labour has abandoned the conventions of two-party politics. It has abdicated the constitutional responsibilities of a serious parliamentary opposition, floated policy ideas of extravagant absurdity and elected as leader a man whose patent unsuitability to high office is exemplified in habitual halting statements and rhetorical fumbles. This has brought the derision of his colleagues and poll ratings that break postwar records for unpopularity.

    Losing the Copeland by-election to the Conservatives was, in all the wrong senses, a historic achievement. The Tories increased their share of the vote by 8.5 per cent. That result confirms the chasm at the heart of British politics. Copeland is the first time since 1982, in the wake of victory in the Falklands, that a governing party has won a seat from the opposition. The constituency was held by Labour continuously from the 1930s. In the by-election in Stoke, Labour held on but with a decline in its share of the vote. It had the good fortune that the contest, in a strongly pro-Brexit area, had originally been seen as a battle between Labour and Ukip. The Ukip candidate and party leader, Paul Nuttall, turned out to be a mercurial character with a taste for making lurid autobiographical statements. His vote was almost eclipsed by the Tories.

    Interviewed in The Times today, David Miliband, the former foreign secretary, says that his party is further from power than at any point in his lifetime. The only quarrel an observer could have with his comment is that it may understate the severity of Labourís plight. If the Copeland swing were replicated uniformly on a national scale, the Conservative majority would soar from 12 to 124, with Labour winning 177 seats.

    Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader in name if little else, is unlikely to do as well as that in a general election. The public has thus far seen little of him. He became leader, and was re-elected to the post against the wishes of Labour MPs because he promised an ideological purity regardless of the historic failures of socialism and in defiance of the views of the electorate. Yet the defining characteristic of Mr Corbynís leadership is not his doctrinaire politics and unsavoury alliances with extremists and antisemites, but his remorseless incompetence. His grasp of policy is minimal and his lack of articulacy is demonstrated repeatedly in parliamentary debate.

    Widely regarded as an affable duffer, Mr Corbyn lacks even that reputed public amiability. When pressed in interviews he loses his temper. His public standing and refusal to recognise fault in himself are born of vanity. While the government needs to be held to account in handling Brexit negotiations, Labour has abandoned those of its voters (two-thirds of them) who supported Remain. The Liberal Democrats are reaping some rewards from this. Meanwhile Ukip may have been badly wounded by Mr Nuttallís failure to take a seat he should have won, but Labour risks further losses in the north of England to the Conservatives.

    Capable and moderate figures are abandoning Labour. Hence as the government embarks on the task of finding a new place for Britain in the international economic order outside the European Union, a parliamentary opposition exists in name alone. For Britain it is a dismal political prospect. For Labour, a historic catastrophe.

    And for Mr Corbyn, an indelible disgrace."
    Its an astonishing rant in Murdochs flagship, devoid of any kind of balanced analysis. Ironically, almost Stalinist propaganda.

  15. #1425

  16. #1426
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Its an astonishing rant in Murdochs flagship, devoid of any kind of balanced analysis. Ironically, almost Stalinist propaganda.
    Predictable.

    No need to deal with the criticism because it's in the Times.

    Unfortunately, the electorate doesn't see it that way.
    Last edited by Hibbyradge; 27-02-2017 at 11:27 PM.

  17. #1427
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Predictable.

    No need to deal with the criticism because it's in the Times.

    Unfortunately, the electorate doesn't see it that way.
    The irony in you calling anyone else 'predictable' is brilliant. We've had months and months of you posting the same crap links to the same crap articles, almost every day.
    Its a crap article. Corbyn an 'anti-Semite'. Give me strength.

  18. #1428
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    The irony in you calling anyone else 'predictable' is brilliant. We've had months and months of you posting the same crap links to the same crap articles, almost every day.
    Its a crap article. Corbyn an 'anti-Semite'. Give me strength.
    It's not ironic in the slightest. I knew your response would be to dismiss the article because of where it was written.

    It's the only defence the left have. No answers to the actual criticisms. Just say they're "Crap links to crap articles" without a shred of substance or evidence to the contrary.

    When you point out how brilliant Corbyn is doing/has done, I'll either agree or I'll refute the remarks with counter arguments/examples.

    I won't merely duck for cover behind the fact that it was in the Socialist Worker or merely call it a crap article, even though it might be.
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  19. #1429
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Which "non- trot", "non entryist" said, "Iím not in the Labour party because Iím a believer of the Labour party as some supreme body or something God-given or anything like that,Ē

    ďItís a tactic. Itís as simple as that. If itís no longer a useful vehicle, move on."?
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  20. #1430
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Which "non- trot", "non entryist" said, "I’m not in the Labour party because I’m a believer of the Labour party as some supreme body or something God-given or anything like that,”

    “It’s a tactic. It’s as simple as that. If it’s no longer a useful vehicle, move on."?
    Well it wouldn't be someone committed to the Labour Party would it?

    You couldn't, say for example, draw a salary as a Labour MP, hold a position as a Labour shadow minister and have those beliefs, could you?. It would be sheer hypocrisy.

    It would be like,oh I don't know, taking all the benefits of the Party's support but voting against it year after year after year. Sheer hypocrisy and fundamental dishonesty. Selfish and vainglorious even?

    The problem for McDonnell and Corbyn is that if they think they had to fight off the moderates, they forgot that the most bitter and vicious elements in the Party and the movement are those who cling onto the old far leftist tropes. Some of them are starting to gun for the leadership now and it's a zero sum game when that happens.

    And all the while,no one holds this wretchedly poor Tory government to account.

    It's scandalous.
    Last edited by Mibbes Aye; 03-03-2017 at 02:34 PM.
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  21. #1431
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Jezza comes out for Indyref2. I wonder how Kezia is going to take this one.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-39244890

  22. #1432
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Jezza comes out for Indyref2. I wonder how Kezia is going to take this one.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-39244890

  23. #1433
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Jezza comes out for Indyref2. I wonder how Kezia is going to take this one.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-39244890
    Ms Sturgeon, the Scottish first minister and SNP leader, tweeted that it was "always a pleasure to have Jeremy Corbyn campaigning in Scotland".
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