hibs.net Messageboard

Page 1 of 49 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 1452
  1. #1
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    150

    Labour Party Leadership

    Is it just me or, is the Scottish Labour Supporters stuck between a rock and a hard place if Jeremy Corbyn wins the leadership race. The reason I state this is because, if he wins then surely that would subject Scotland to guaranteed Tory Westminster Governments although on the other hand its his policies that the Scottish Labour Supporter wants.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #2
    Not just sometimes but always Northernhibee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Age
    31
    Posts
    6,525
    I'm a Labour party member and am voting for Corbyn. I think that the last few weeks has opened the eyes to a lot of people that what they want is left of centre politics and would mark a really good step forward for the Labour party. It'd provide real opposition from the Tories and would help strengthen the trade unions again which we're needing in the United Kingdom at this moment in time.


    Rangers 2-3 Hibernian
    21st May 2016

  4. #3
    I think Corbyn is a really interesting candidate and it's good for the party he is standing.

    If he is elected and flops, as is predicted, then the big noises in the parliamentary Labour Party can state with proof that the left is dead and has been well and truly rejected. If he succeeds then for the party in the short term great, in the long term it's a wait and see moment and we'd see arguably the biggest ideological shift in UK politics since 1979.

    I don't really know a lot about the man and as I no longer have a vote in a Labour leadership contest my interest has been passing. Some of the attempts to smear and discredit him seem a bit off though.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Some of the attempts to smear and discredit him seem a bit off though.
    It's not so much smears IMHO. It's just total panic at the realisation that there's a serious chance of him winning. All very reminiscent of a certain point in the referendum campaign.

  6. #5
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm a Labour party member and am voting for Corbyn. I think that the last few weeks has opened the eyes to a lot of people that what they want is left of centre politics and would mark a really good step forward for the Labour party. It'd provide real opposition from the Tories and would help strengthen the trade unions again which we're needing in the United Kingdom at this moment in time.
    I totally agree with you that we need centre to left policy's BUT, getting Scotland to acknowledge that is easy, its middle England that needs shifting and I honestly think that's not far off an impossibility. They only voted for Tony Blair because he changed the whole Labour political outlook to centre right.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,539
    Quote Originally Posted by fulshie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I totally agree with you that we need centre to left policy's BUT, getting Scotland to acknowledge that is easy, its middle England that needs shifting and I honestly think that's not far off an impossibility. They only voted for Tony Blair because he changed the whole Labour political outlook to centre right.

    Corbyn is not centre left from where I sit....full renationalisation of a number of industries and funding bumper government spending directly by using the BoE to print as much cash as he deems required for centrally decided 'investment' is hardly middle ground policies.

    Anyway my views on his policies aside it is fascinating in a type of morbid way...not only the bizarre voting rules (sure I read recently there is now 400,000 new members?!?) but just how removed Corbyn is from the recent mainstream party. This could seriously split Labour in two and may cause an irreversible change (for good or bad who knows) in British politics. Miliband may have lost the election but as the voting system was his creation (ironically enough in an attempt to dilute the voting block of the unions that got him the gig in the first place) he may well have a lasting legacy well beyond even what he could have imagined.

    Of course it could all end up a damp squib but none the less it's making irresistible viewing...

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member R'Albin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aberdeen
    Age
    20
    Posts
    5,173
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Razza96
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think Corbyn is a really interesting candidate and it's good for the party he is standing.

    If he is elected and flops, as is predicted, then the big noises in the parliamentary Labour Party can state with proof that the left is dead and has been well and truly rejected. If he succeeds then for the party in the short term great, in the long term it's a wait and see moment and we'd see arguably the biggest ideological shift in UK politics since 1979.

    I don't really know a lot about the man and as I no longer have a vote in a Labour leadership contest my interest has been passing. Some of the attempts to smear and discredit him seem a bit off though.
    My new personal favourite:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...rbyn-backfires

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by R'Albin View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Given her somewhat sketchy knowledge of Judaism, including saying she would refer to Theodor Herzl as anti Semitic if he used the term Zionist, I'm somewhat surprised to see that rather than backing down after this she seems to be ramping up her 'Cornyn is an anti Semite' campaign in the last few hours.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  10. #9
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,594
    I voted for Liz but I'm one of the few.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    7,567
    The long list of Labour Establishment coming out and attacking Corbyn has played into his hands. The media are raking up as much crap for him as possible. They're even mentioning Militant now, and how the right wingers thought they'd cleared them all out.

    Blair, Brown, and Boothroyd. What a midfield that is eh

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Musselburgh
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,818
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: ELHACHE
    Very interesting.

    Could finally be the radicalisation this country needs to propel us back into the way of things pre thatcher.
    I say radical, it is not all that radical at all, but the current way of things means we look upon the policies he is proposing as radical.

    A labour man that is truly for the labour man.

    The establishment are starting to get into full swing trying to ensure we don't see him as the leader.

    He will take us back to the place where the many hold the power rather than the few.

    Go for it

  13. #12
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,594
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Very interesting.

    Could finally be the radicalisation this country needs to propel us back into the way of things pre thatcher.
    I say radical, it is not all that radical at all, but the current way of things means we look upon the policies he is proposing as radical.

    A labour man that is truly for the labour man.

    The establishment are starting to get into full swing trying to ensure we don't see him as the leader.

    He will take us back to the place where the many hold the power rather than the few.

    Go for it
    Propel us back?

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Very interesting.

    Could finally be the radicalisation this country needs to propel us back into the way of things pre thatcher.
    I say radical, it is not all that radical at all, but the current way of things means we look upon the policies he is proposing as radical.

    A labour man that is truly for the labour man.

    The establishment are starting to get into full swing trying to ensure we don't see him as the leader.

    He will take us back to the place where the many hold the power rather than the few.

    Go for it
    If you really are 22, you'll have about as much idea of how things were pre-Thatcher than I do about how tough it was living during the Highland Clearances. I'm in my early 40s and can barely remember it.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Musselburgh
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,818
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: ELHACHE
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Propel us back?
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you really are 22, you'll have about as much idea of how things were pre-Thatcher than I do about how tough it was living during the Highland Clearances. I'm in my early 40s and can barely remember it.
    I have read a lot about this recently.

    I know the trade unions had a massive strong hold meaning that the working man was well represented.

    I know there were institutions like British rail, a company I have no memory of.
    British Gas.
    Royal Mail.

    I know these companies were publicly funded.

    These two aspects are pre thatcher.

    And they are a positive for a country

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    18,442
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have read a lot about this recently.

    I know the trade unions had a massive strong hold meaning that the working man was well represented.

    I know there were institutions like British rail, a company I have no memory of.
    British Gas.
    Royal Mail.

    I know these companies were publicly funded.

    These two aspects are pre thatcher.

    And they are a positive for a country
    What is this "working man" of which you speak?

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,263
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have read a lot about this recently.

    I know the trade unions had a massive strong hold meaning that the working man was well represented.

    I know there were institutions like British rail, a company I have no memory of.
    British Gas.
    Royal Mail.

    I know these companies were publicly funded.

    These two aspects are pre thatcher.

    And they are a positive for a country
    This is a tangent, but I would say you are both wrong and right (but not intentionally I suspect).

    The Equal Pay Act was introduced in the 1970s but it wasn't until the mid-1990s that serious challenge arose to the fact that women employed in local authorities had far worse terms than men did, for broadly similar work. Once the legal challenges went in (and unions opposed people making individual challenges), the councils had to pay out millions upon millions. I think at one point, Birmingham City Council was facing a bill of nearly £1bn!

    This all happened on the public sector unions' watch. They had twenty years to challenge this gross inequity and if I was being cynical I would suggest they didn't bother because it might jeopardise the Ts and Cs of their male staff. They might well have represented the 'working man' but they weren't representing the 'working woman'. Yet that was supposed to be their job.

    And to add insult to injury, when councils had to find the money, just like any other time when they have to find the money, it comes out in a way that disproportionately impact on the weaker and more vulnerable in society.

    As for your post more generally, I remember the state-owned utilities. They can work very well but they can also be horribly dysfunctional.

    Perhaps the important point is that Thatcher, whether one agreed with her or not, managed to set out a narrative that people listened to and believed in large numbers - that those utilities were wasteful, that 'ordinary' people could prosper from the programme of privatisation. And perhaps most importantly that people were in some way entitled to this.

    It was a very powerful argument that caught the mood of a lot of people at the time and built up and capitalised on resentment and dissatisfaction with the idea of the state 's role extending so deeply into its population's lives, probably informed by the perception of governmental and economic failures in the previous decade (though admittedly there were wider, more global forces at play).
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  18. #17
    Veni, Vidi, Posti degenerated's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    At a post-punk postcard fair
    Age
    46
    Posts
    9,764
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: dave7062
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This is a tangent, but I would say you are both wrong and right (but not intentionally I suspect).

    The Equal Pay Act was introduced in the 1970s but it wasn't until the mid-1990s that serious challenge arose to the fact that women employed in local authorities had far worse terms than men did, for broadly similar work. Once the legal challenges went in (and unions opposed people making individual challenges), the councils had to pay out millions upon millions. I think at one point, Birmingham City Council was facing a bill of nearly £1bn!

    This all happened on the public sector unions' watch. They had twenty years to challenge this gross inequity and if I was being cynical I would suggest they didn't bother because it might jeopardise the Ts and Cs of their male staff. They might well have represented the 'working man' but they weren't representing the 'working woman'. Yet that was supposed to be their job.

    And to add insult to injury, when councils had to find the money, just like any other time when they have to find the money, it comes out in a way that disproportionately impact on the weaker and more vulnerable in society.

    As for your post more generally, I remember the state-owned utilities. They can work very well but they can also be horribly dysfunctional.

    Perhaps the important point is that Thatcher, whether one agreed with her or not, managed to set out a narrative that people listened to and believed in large numbers - that those utilities were wasteful, that 'ordinary' people could prosper from the programme of privatisation. And perhaps most importantly that people were in some way entitled to this.

    It was a very powerful argument that caught the mood of a lot of people at the time and built up and capitalised on resentment and dissatisfaction with the idea of the state 's role extending so deeply into its population's lives, probably informed by the perception of governmental and economic failures in the previous decade (though admittedly there were wider, more global forces at play).
    I would recommend Owen Jones book, the establishment and how they get away with it. The first chapter has some excellent commentary on the outriders and think tanks whose thinking shaped thatchers policies and managed to make their economic model the accepted norm.

    Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member Alex Trager's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Musselburgh
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,818
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: ELHACHE
    Quote Originally Posted by degenerated View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would recommend Owen Jones book, the establishment and how they get away with it. The first chapter has some excellent commentary on the outriders and think tanks whose thinking shaped thatchers policies and managed to make their economic model the accepted norm.

    Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
    This is the point I was making.

    It had become accepted as the norm the way things are nowadays, when forty years ago there was real power in the hands of the unions etc.

    It's a fair point to make regarding the women's fight, I will say I never realised this.

    My general point remains that in order to stop the gap getting so large between the top and bottom there needs to be a big public sector.

    State interference requires higher levels of taxation which those at the top don't want, for obvious reasons.

    If Corben gets in.

    Watch how the media spin it.
    Bearing in mind the media is owned by those at the top, who want to ensure all stays the same.

    As has been mentioned, it was the same around the referendum and it'll be the same if he gets in.
    They'll go into overdrive to protect what has been worked so hard for to get.

    Pre thatcher the highest rate of taxation was 60%
    Now it's forty five, is that correct?

    That's a fifteen percent reduction.
    Meaning they tuck away and extra fifteen percent of their income whilst at the same time the state is reduced and those who so dearly rely on the state are struggling.

    Fwiw I believe greater equality would come from a 'fairer' division of profits amongst the workforce.

    Obviously I am not for one minute suggesting a ceo gets the same as a foot soldier.
    But a drop in wages for him/her, bearing in mind they already have millions and millions, means a rise in wage for 'them'.

    It's a corrupt world we live in unfortunately and we will never break it.

  20. #19
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    "Galactidos!"
    Age
    32
    Posts
    4,877
    Frankie Boyle's take: http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ership-contest

    "Many people thought the Labour party would struggle to top the disaster of losing the general election, but it has silenced the doubters by somehow contriving to lose its own internal leadership election."


  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member R'Albin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aberdeen
    Age
    20
    Posts
    5,173
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Razza96
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-in-wonderland

    Is there seriously anyone who's going to be persuaded by anything this man has to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Frankie Boyle's take: http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ership-contest

    "Many people thought the Labour party would struggle to top the disaster of losing the general election, but it has silenced the doubters by somehow contriving to lose its own internal leadership election."


    "Meanwhile, Burnham, who looks as if he has carved Fireman Samís face off and laid it carelessly across his own skull"



  22. #21
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,594
    Quote Originally Posted by R'Albin View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-in-wonderland

    Is there seriously anyone who's going to be persuaded by anything this man has to say?




    "Meanwhile, Burnham, who looks as if he has carved Fireman Samís face off and laid it carelessly across his own skull"


    Yeh. He only won three landslide elections. Why would anyone listen to him!

  23. #22
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    50
    Posts
    1,594
    Quote Originally Posted by degenerated View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would recommend Owen Jones book, the establishment and how they get away with it. The first chapter has some excellent commentary on the outriders and think tanks whose thinking shaped thatchers policies and managed to make their economic model the accepted norm.

    Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
    I can't disagree more. The Establishment was one of the worst, contrived pieces of total rubbish I have ever read.

    His other book, Chavs, is excellent, though and I highly recommend it as a insightful analysis of class in the UK.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Keekaboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Laim
    Posts
    16,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Trager View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have read a lot about this recently.

    I know the trade unions had a massive strong hold meaning that the working man was well represented.

    I know there were institutions like British rail, a company I have no memory of.
    British Gas.
    Royal Mail.

    I know these companies were publicly funded.

    These two aspects are pre thatcher.

    And they are a positive for a country
    Sadly, during the era that you discuss, many in the leadership of the Trade Unions were working for any form of confrontation they possibly could. The rights of the 'working man' were almost irrelevant to these people.

    The Trade Unions of the 70s/80s played right into the hands of Thatcher and gave her the mandate, in the eyes of the general public, to remove not only the excessively abused powers of the Trade Unions but, at the same time, many of the safeguards for workers in general.

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,495
    Gamer IDs

    PSN ID: hibee_easty
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34106214

    What an odd way to attack Corbyn. He's "under fire" for saying that Bin Laden should have been put on trial rather than just have a hit squad knock down his door and shoot him.

  26. #25
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    "Galactidos!"
    Age
    32
    Posts
    4,877
    Quote Originally Posted by easty View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34106214

    What an odd way to attack Corbyn. He's "under fire" for saying that Bin Laden should have been put on trial rather than just have a hit squad knock down his door and shoot him.
    I thought the same thing.

    I keep reading how he's "out of step" with mainstream thinking. Is that automatically a bad thing?

  27. #26
    First Team Breakthrough Flynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sunny Leith
    Posts
    133
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Flynn74
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yeh. He only won three landslide elections. Why would anyone listen to him!
    1997 GE. Labour receive 13,518,167 votes. 43.2% of electorate.
    2001 GE. Labour receive 10,724,953 votes. 40.7% of electorate.
    2005 GE. Labour receive 8,567,589 votes. 35.2% of electorate.

    Tony Blair lost 5 million Labour supporters during his leadership. He is also a mass-murdering war criminal. That's why I don't listen to him.

    I find it strange that none of the Blairite candidates for the leadership have considered trying to appeal to non-voters (18million of them), rather than moving the party further to the right in an incompetent attempt to win over a small % of Tory voters.

    They are doing a grand job of designing the method of their own demise. Not content with losing Scotland, they are now extending their glorious failure to the rest of the UK.

  28. #27
    Coaching Staff monktonharp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    pleasant valley eh15
    Age
    63
    Posts
    9,622
    this has no relevance to Hibs, and football. it is political, and mainly about an Ex=Socialist Party, which used to be relevant in Scotland. please move it to games or whatever sub forum is more suitable.

  29. #28
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    51
    Posts
    8,330
    Quote Originally Posted by monktonharp View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    this has no relevance to Hibs, and football. it is political, and mainly about an Ex=Socialist Party, which used to be relevant in Scotland. please move it to games or whatever sub forum is more suitable.
    Sadly the admins seem to agree with you. I applaud the German fans who got this going. Football is there to unite people and that's what they're doing. Us, well obviously we're not ready to get over our political, sectarian or religious differences to come together and do something positive for people in desperate need. Sad day for Hibs net.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    in a house in Bathgate
    Posts
    25,272
    someone getting threads mixed up ?

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sadly the admins seem to agree with you. I applaud the German fans who got this going. Football is there to unite people and that's what they're doing. Us, well obviously we're not ready to get over our political, sectarian or religious differences to come together and do something positive for people in desperate need. Sad day for Hibs net.
    Firstly this isn't even the thread regarding 'Refugees Welcome' so I'm unsure what point the post you are quoting is making. This thread was never on the MB.

    Secondly I moved the thread I assume is being referred to. If you read through the thread you will see my own views on the subject. Sadly though the thread went off on a wild tangent with a debate on economic migration that had nothing to do with the actions of the German fans, refugees or football. If people want to use .net as a platform to get a group together to make and display such a banner I, personally speaking, would be willing to be involved and happy to see the site used in such a way. As it was this thread was doing nothing of the sort and had become quite distasteful so was moved.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved