Ruthless with youngsters

[brog]

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In my opinion, the worst thing that could happen to youth development was the disbanding of the reserve league. There is a huge gulf between the youngsters and the first team. The reserve league allowed good youngsters to pit their talents against seasoned pro's in a safe environment. Now it's Under 20 or first team with nothing in between. Whilst this may suit teams like the OF etc who can go out and buy ready made first team players, clubs like us who need to nurture youth now don't have the environment to do so.

Couldn't agree more. I said in an earlier post that IMO Stanton, Harris & Handling are far too good for development football but struggle to hold down a first team place. It's the same across the city with Holt being the prime example but King & even Nicholson not always being first choices.

[StevieT]

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Couldn't agree more. I said in an earlier post that IMO Stanton, Harris & Handling are far too good for development football but struggle to hold down a first team place. It's the same across the city with Holt being the prime example but King & even Nicholson not always being first choices.

Exactly Brog. If you are too good for development but not good enough for the first team you either get splinters in your backside or loaned out. It will be interesting to see which of our loaned out players actually make it in our first team and which end up plying their trade in the lower leagues.

[Thecat23]

Holt, King and Nicholson are far better IMO than Stanton, Harris and Handling.

It wouldn't bother me if all three were let go to free wages or even loaned out! Said it for a long time and was shot down that these lads needed to step up when given the chance. Stanton is the best of the three for what I've seen and if you can't dominate in this league then I'm sorry there's something not right!

I'm not having a go at these players by the way, good pros but for me not good enough for were we as a club want to be or want to go.

[StevieT]

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Holt, King and Nicholson are far better IMO than Stanton, Harris and Handling.

It wouldn't bother me if all three were let go to free wages or even loaned out! Said it for a long time and was shot down that these lads needed to step up when given the chance. Stanton is the best of the three for what I've seen and if you can't dominate in this league then I'm sorry there's something not right!

I'm not having a go at these players by the way, good pros but for me not good enough for were we as a club want to be or want to go.

Agreed. There is no room for sentiment. If they aren't seen to be good enough then let them find their own level elsewhere. However, I think something needs to be done to close the gap between development and first team football.

If enough teams were interested, why not organise a friendly with the team we are about to play in a reverse fixture. Non playing first team players, players returning from injury and development players could play against each other in an unofficial reserve type league but played as friendlies.

[Thecat23]

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Agreed. There is no room for sentiment. If they aren't seen to be good enough then let them find their own level elsewhere. However, I think something needs to be done to close the gap between development and first team football.

If enough teams were interested, why not organise a friendly with the team we are about to play in a reverse fixture. Non playing first team players, players returning from injury and development players could play against each other in an unofficial reserve type league but played as friendlies.

That's a very good idea as I fully agree there is a gap between our first team and the u20's. The reserve league matured these guys and toughened them up. Need something put in place and friendly games isn't a bad shout!

[Ozyhibby]

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I honestly don't think coming on here though and making threads about them not being good enough helps the situation. These young boys probably come on here and read things, can't imagine it does wonders for their confidence. Who remembers all the David Wotherspoon threads from a few years back? Now he's in the SPFL/Europe and we're stuck down here so that shows you how much half the people starting those threads really knew about judging a player. It's amazing what a little bit of confidence can do in football.

Witherspoon played as many games for Hibs as these three put together.
He took his chance.

[TowerHibs]

I mind a thread on here last season going mental at the 3 or 4 players we were releasing who were deemed future stars. A left back i seem to recall......not even sure where he is.

These guys have to be taking their chance. I dont care who is in the team, they have to keep developing and keep improving. Look at the guys at Hamilton. I think the "conveyor belt" has ruined a lot of players attitudes. The notion of that all you need to do is break into the team and you will move on is no longer true.

It response to the OP. I agree, they have had their chance. The 3 of them will be 21 next years and no longer youngsters. if they are not better than we have, im sure the next batch of 18 year olds will take the place of the next prospect. Its ruthless but the harsh realilty

[SquashedFrogg]

Interesting thread. It's really tough one as we all want to see a young player coming through the ranks and 'making it'.

In an ideal world they'd get all the time in the world to do so.

The fear for me is always "Have we let them go too soon?" or "Would one more year have made the difference?".

If I had to pick one out of the three to keep and give more opportunity to it would be Stanton.

Our recruitment and overall re-structuring of our club however, gives me confidence that if we do let these guys go, we will have a new breed of 'younger players' coming through...

Good discussion though

[SquashedFrogg]

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I mind a thread on here last season going mental at the 3 or 4 players we were releasing who were deemed future stars. A left back i seem to recall......not even sure where he is.

These guys have to be taking their chance. I dont care who is in the team, they have to keep developing and keep improving. Look at the guys at Hamilton. I think the "conveyor belt" has ruined a lot of players attitudes. The notion of that all you need to do is break into the team and you will move on is no longer true.

It response to the OP. I agree, they have had their chance. The 3 of them will be 21 next years and no longer youngsters. if they are not better than we have, im sure the next batch of 18 year olds will take the place of the next prospect. Its ruthless but the harsh realilty

Fair comments.

[Unseen work]

The thing is with youngsters as you always want them to stay and succeed in the team.

Over the past 10 years you could probably name 2 every season that have got released or sold and people have came on moaning that he was going to be brilliant, but really how many of them have we been wrong to let go?

The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok

[SquashedFrogg]

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The thing is with youngsters as you always want them to stay and succeed in the team.

Over the past 10 years you could probably name 2 every season that have got released or sold and people have came on moaning that he was going to be brilliant, but really how many of them have we been wrong to let go?

The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok

Agree. Perhaps circumstances don't help and unfortunately we are in a position where we need to gt promoted so no 'comfort zone' to give younger boys a good run at it.

Defo 3 players with talent but maybe right place but just wrong time? (Which happens at lots of clubs I guess)

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

I'd be very disappointed if Stanton was to leave. There absolutely is a player in there. Disappointed he didn't make more of an impact last season but I still believe in him. Make or break this season coming though

[anon1875]

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And tell me, how many years massaging their egos do we have to do to wait for them to start stepping up, they are not young boys any more, in fact only a year or two less than Allan and Fyvie, they should be forcing Craig and Robertson out the team and they didn't.

That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

[SquashedFrogg]

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That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

I see what your you're saying my friend and get the sentiments but at the moment we can't really afford to carry squad players. Regardless of what they earn. Maybe in a year or two we can but not now. We need a trim, lean talented squad right now. Until we re-establish ourselves in the top flight we simply can't do that.

[tamig]

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I know the coaches have a responsibility for there physical development.

But IMO at the end of the day it's the players that need to realise this is holding them back massively, when I was 16 I realised I had to join a gym to play better in football, I bulked up and my all round game improved as a result. Now I never played at a very high level or anything, so for a youngster at an spl team to neglect this side to me is staggering.

I've said this on several threads last season that these guys should be working with the fitness gurus to put on a few pounds of muscle. Stanton is a lovely player to watch but he blows over like a feather in a breeze when an opponent comes within 5 yards of him.

[B.H.F.C]

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That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

But if you can get rid of two or three players not making an impact and bring in one that does then it wouldn't be silly. We need players who, if they get a chance, can take it.

It's perfectly fair to compare them to the players that you mention as that is who they are competing with. Whether they are young, experienced or whatever is irrelevant. If they aren't contributing enough, we need to bring in someone to replace them.

[Eyrie]

My view this time last year was that a season in the second tier was make-or-break for the three being discussed, together with Forster.

I'm not concerned about Forster who has played well when fit, but the other three haven't done enough. I might keep them for one last year as depth since they won't be on big wages, but on the available evidence I'd be surprised if any of the three do enough to become a regular starter.

[Andy74]

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That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

Fyvie himself had played for Aberdeen nearly 60 times before he was 20. He is now only 22. These guys have to be good enough to match this and they aren't currently.

[mca]

Maybe they way we have played and been coached under a few ex-managers kinda knocked their Confidence to Bits.. before they even reached the First Team ??

[SquashedFrogg]

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Maybe they way we have played and been coached under a few ex-managers kinda knocked their Confidence to Bits.. before they even reached the First Team ??

But talent rises to the top and they haven't?

Many of the young players who have succeeded in our recent past played or trained under Williamson. That didn't stunt or harm their talent.

Doesn't wash for me I'm afraid.

[J-C]

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That's not really fair comparing them to Fyvie/Allan/Craig/Robertson who are all proven players in the SPL, two of which earned decent moves to England. Decent squad players at the moment, they won't be on big money either so letting them go would be silly if the players you're bringing in to replace them would be on higher wages.

I'm saying at their age, Allan and Fyvie were regulars in their respective teams and got moves south, do you think anyone from down south will be coming in for them anytime soon. These guys, in particular Handling and Stanton have have a decent go in the 1st team, in fact Handling had a good run out when McGeouch was injured but they've never managed to grab the opportunity and become regulars, this is the Championship we're talking about, these guys if they were on loan would've been at teams in this division.

[The Leith Dutch]

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The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok

Bloody good point this. I'm still not sure exactly what their best position is supposed to be. Would be interesting to know how this plays out behind the scenes and whether they are certain themselves.

Also agree with the other posters that Stanton and Handling need a bit more physicality. On top of everything else it will help their confidence - when you see Handling getting bumped around by some low rent thug it's not likely to make his next touch or pass better :(

If I was to pick one of our youngsters that I think is most likely to make the cut it would be Forster.
He has the weaknesses I'd expect of a youngster - a wee bit inexperienced in positioning and decision making.
You'd hope that a good manager (particularly an ex-central defender) can help him with this.

Why I think he's more likely to make it is he has the physical presence that if he gets his decision making right he's going to execute.
If Stanton or Handling do everything else right - control and decision - there's still a chance it won't come off because they can be shoved around.

The other bit I like about Forster is the bit you can't teach which is his attitude - it's pretty clear he thinks he belongs in the first team and that shows in how he carries himself when playing.

By no means saying he's guaranteed to make it but for me he's at a very good level for his age.

[eastcoasthibby]

Interesting thread this and loads of salient points for and against our young boys and if /when/can they make it !! I personally think the signs are there for a couple of them 1) Foerster has made the break through and when fit is,a first team regular , but needs to work hard and develop himself and get his head into living the right lifestyle as a pro footballer no more nonsense like the George Street gang stuff.
I think Danny Handling has reached his peak of ability , personally I think his real lack of any pace is a problem and not got the physical attributes to play a more restrictive central midfield role, definitely a decent brain and can finish, think championship in another team is it !! Stanton has bags of ability he needs to find consistency and a bit of physicality in his game, protecting the ball or winning his share of tackles , he is a talent in dribbling, getting into good positions, creatively, scores goals, he can go in but needs much more match time. Alex Harris since his injury has lacked real confidence, perhaps even before that expectations hit him hard as he hadn't really done much other than a few games where his potential showed, the flair and use of his pace were unseen. Has his move to Dundee helped from what I have seen in TV and heard from a few of their fans , he didn't give them much. He needs to get his head in the right place and give what we saw before and physiologically get himself sorted to play with his attributes, cos flitting in and out of games, shark by any kind of tackle or challenge is no good nowadays..... I have my doubts if he has it in him but hope to be proven wrong.
So Stanton and Forster have it and need to force themselves forward, Harris and Handling have a bit of work to do get up into the next stage ....all just my humble view.

[maturehibby]

Before that Motherwell animal Hutchinson took Harris out with one of the worst tackles I have ever seen - he was a Class act with a good/great career ahead of him but the injury damaged him physically and mentally and the player has not regained his confidence and ability YET but it perhaps needs the coaching to bring him back to the player he is capable of being and the belief of his Manager and coaches

[PeterboroHibee]

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The thing is with youngsters as you always want them to stay and succeed in the team.

Over the past 10 years you could probably name 2 every season that have got released or sold and people have came on moaning that he was going to be brilliant, but really how many of them have we been wrong to let go?

The 3 boys are all talented, and I think the biggest issue for handling and Stanton is knowing what there position is and being able to have a crack at it. But that means taking the chance when it comes, not every 3rd game is good and the other 2 are ok

Spot on. Theres a few examples where guys have been let go at a very young age, but that happens at almost every club. I cant think of any Hibs players who made it to the first team level, didnt quite make and were released, then went on to be a huge success elsewhere?